LIHOP vs MIHOP

[nadinbrzezinski]

Ok I just sent this to Mike Malloy, but it is important to share

Ok Mike I am not going to argue with you whether the towers COULD have collapsed after they were hit... or whether the aluminum of the aircraft that hit the Pentagon could have ahem, vaporized. Suffice it to say I spent ten years in Rescue Services and I did see things that defied the imagination.

That said, at this point Let it Happen or Make it happen (I subscribe to the former, not the latter) are purely semantics.

Hear me out... whether they made it happen or let it happen does not matter. They were the ones who had the power to let it happen. And the size of the criminal conspiracy is far easier to maintain, than the make it happen school The MIHOP school takes way too many people to cover it up, and way too many pay outs, but the LIHOP school could easily be contained within the PNAC working group, and maybe a couple intelligence analysis who were bought off NOT to pass certain data to those who COULD have done something about it. (FBI Annalist Rowley, who TRIED to pass it up the chain and was stopped) What is more, George didn't know about it... mostly the ever so popular plausible deniability. That said, his brother was fully in it, as he is a signer of the PNAC plan. Yes these are my conclusions after readying far more on this than most folks should, including the official cover up... better known as the 9.11 report.

As I said, if we are ever able to bring this before a court of law... it is quite bad, for what we are talking about is not only negligence, but treason. That said, we can speculate as much as we want... my take is... I don't expect elections any more. Simulacrum of elections, absolutely, but that started in 2000. When will the American people wake up As a historian I know that sooner or later it will occur, and it might have already happened... and all I can hope for is that it is peaceful, but as I concluded with a friend, we now live in either pre revolutionary or pre- civil war times. Keep your powder dry, for we don't know what will start it. In fact, the right has tried already to get a shooting civil war going, to replace this cold civil war... what do you think Shciavo was all about? Why do they want to do that? Martial Law and suspension of elections and that piece of paper George hates, the US Constitution. At this point, they are quite transparent, to those paying attention that is.

Oh and as to Single Player plans, realize anywhere from 60-70^% of the American People want it... it is the powers that be that don't want it. Why? Well let me see... average ER visit, broken foot, you are easily talking 4,000 dollars... if they no longer have to pay for it, imagine the savings? Yes, they want this country to become a fiefdom, and they no longer hide it... and Strauss and Aristotle would be proud of them.

Sincerely,

Nadin, who is glad to have the time to listen to day.

[Atman]

1. 5...4...3...2...1...

Off to the attic with you!

[KittyWampus]

17. With NO PUDDING!

[Harper_is_Bush]

2. "They were the ones who had the power to let it happen."? Who didn't?

I had the power to let it happen, by your definition. We all did. Do nothing, it happens. Power, woo hoo.

[nadinbrzezinski]

4. Mr. President

I am honored... if you had the power to order wargames on September 11 and have only six fighetrs to defend the whole of the East Cosat, I am impressed...

[Harper_is_Bush]

6. Ok Mr. President.

If you had the power to not have any power I'm also impressed. Good job.

[nadinbrzezinski]

7. Point is THEY had the power to do things

and order actions. You and I were purely in for the ride... unfortunate as this may be. Some tried to raise the alarm, through the system... nto realizing the system was already compromised

This is the beaty of conspiracies... and why they are so damn hard to prove too

[Harper_is_Bush]

12. Do you think they consciously allowed it to happen?

[nadinbrzezinski]

14. In one word YES

read the Project for a New American Century. They needed a new Pearl Harbor, their words, not mine... iirc page 48 of the White Paer Rebuildign America's Defenses.

Yes the quite is there, download the PDF and use Adobe's search "New Pearl Harbor."

Here are links

http://www.newamericancentury.org/

http://www.newamericancentury.org/RebuildingAmericasDefenses.pdf

[Harper_is_Bush]

18. No logical connection between PNAC and 9/11.

It might fit into the PNAC storyline about an event facilitating things, but that doesn't prove shit.

I can say "a big event in my life will help me do X". If a big event then takes place, and I'm able to do X, that doesn't then mean I had anything to do with event X from occuring, through active or passive involvement.

[nadinbrzezinski]

20. You are familiar with Criminal investigations?

Realize there is the motive, means and ways to do this....

Now if you think there is no connection, there is nothing I can do about it... or to even try to have a rational discussion.

By the way... it is NOT easy to reach this conclusion... but alas I have... by the way... at the very least we call this circumstantial evidence... usually when dealing with RICO investigations this is enough to raise to the level of IT NEEDS to be looked into... but don't take my word for it. Do your own readying and your own thinking.

[Harper_is_Bush]

23. "motive, means and ways to do this...." TO DO WHAT???

You guys never say anything specific!!!

What are you talking about? TELL MEEEEE!!! :)

[nadinbrzezinski]

28. Do I need to spell it, allow the 9.11 attacks to occurr

bless your heart, you are naive...

[Harper_is_Bush]

31. Uh-huh. bless your heart too.

Methinks your heart needs more blessing than mine does.

[nadinbrzezinski]

63. Why because I am willing to open my eyes?

You are not, when the facts finally fully emerge I will not be sbocked, but even if we lay them out clearly, you will continue to refuse to beleive.... and for that... well if you are this trusting, you are what they love... me, is what governments fear. I will say it, they were behind it.... they needed it, they let it happen, and from that moment on they have gone on a destruction spree that is truly treasonous. They know they can get away with it, because most Americans CANNOT take that necessary step.

If Americans in 1776 were like you, we would still be citizens of the crown.

[Richard Steele]

25. "Mr. Cheney, do the orders still stand? "

Just sayin'....

[greyl]

36. You should read PNAC with an open mind.

That means emptying your head of some conspiratorial notions first:

www.911myths.com/html/new_pearl_harbour.html

[dailykoff]

39. "some catastrophic and catalyzing event –

like a new Pearl Harbor."

That part of PNAC? :eyes:

[greyl]

40. The entire thing. To put it in proper context. nt

[dailykoff]

41. There's no "context" that excuses 9/11.

9/11 was an absolutely depraved criminal atrocity, whatever "context" the PNAC signatories might have dreamed up to excuse it.

[greyl]

43. Strawman. nt

[dailykoff]

45. Non sequitur. nt

[greyl]

46. Incorrect again. nt

[dailykoff]

47. Underwhelming argument. nt

[greyl]

48. Overwhelming boredom.

www.911myths.com/html/new_pearl_harbour.html

[dailykoff]

49. Maybe it's the repetition.

You already posted that link.

[greyl]

50. Obvious to most everyone, you haven't addressed the link, nor

do you care to have a discussion while respecting the rules of logic.

I'm not bored because I posted the link twice. That was the most challenging part of this bull session so far.

[Harper_is_Bush]

52. The "context" he's referring to would give YOU more understanding

not "excuse" 9/11

PNAC is not attempting to excuse 9/11 and your suggestion that it is is simply dishonest.

[JackRiddler]

67. Sweet!

The passage Mr. Myth takes on first on this page is from a Michael Kane article I edited, and as it happens I wrote the paragraph myself.

Love it. Mr. Myth is my idea of the perfect debunker, pedestrian, ineffective, cherrypicking little cheat that he is.

My passage began, "The PNAC program, in a nutshell." Mr. Myth plays a convenient dumb in reducing the PNAC program to "Rebuilding America's Defenses" then giving that a close textual analysis (starting on the chapter with the NPH phrase) and playing like he doesn't see anything too sinister. However, "Rebuilding" is not the PNAC program. The program can be read all over the newamericancentury.org site. More than this, it belongs to the very public figures of PNAC, a group of whom, simply, constitute the Bush administration war team (Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Perle, Feith, Bolten, etc.). The PNAC program certainly includes such documents as their 1998 lobbying letter to Clinton, which called for an immediate invasion of Iraq with INC/Chalabi "forces" backed by US forces. (Contrary to Mr. Myth's suggestion that he doesn't see a PNAC plan to invade Iraq.)

My passage remains an accurate description of the PNAC program, the members' stated intentions (as confirmed by what they did immediately on taking power, namely preparing and then executing the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq), and their lobbying activities:

"The PNAC program, in a nutshell: America’s military must rule out even the possibility of a serious global or regional challenger anywhere in the world. The regime of Saddam Hussein must be toppled immediately, by U.S. force if necessary. And the entire Middle East must be reordered according to an American plan. PNAC’s most important study notes that selling this plan to the American people will likely take a long time, "absent some catastrophic catalyzing event – like a new Pearl Harbor."

Mr. Myth is free to interpret that as meaning, gee, what we of PNAC want to do to "protect America" won't happen, until it's too late. That's the literal meaning, yes, but in no way reduces the odiousness and obvious wish nature of the phrase.

It's easy to make too much of any given phrase or detail, not however to exaggerate the significance of PNAC, which is nothing in itself except as a club of old fucked-up men who had already held the executive branch in the past, and who made no secret of their intent to return to power and to launch the wars they then actually did launch, in fact after seizing power in a stolen election thanks to PNAC member Jeb Bush. They began preparing their wars immediately in Jan 2001, although they had no sellable casus belli. And then, lo and behold: the new Pearl Harbor they figured would happen if they didn't get their way does happen, "proves them right," and justifies the program they had prepared, but could not otherwise execute.

My paragraph correctly summarizes PNAC, meaning the entire phenomenon that it represents, and I don't feel the least bit debunked by Mr. Myth's efforts.

I will be busy for the next 48 hours, so further responses are unlikely.

[greyl]

74. I'm not surprised that you're saying you don't feel debunked.

In your reply you admit that you want to downplay the literal meaning of words and phrases when it suits your established agenda to do so.

[Warpy]

34. Oh, yes, and I think Stupid knew it was coming

Nothing else can explain his 25 minute performance at the Booker School. Nobody on the face of the planet is that stupid and living outside an institution. He knew it was coming and was a little peeved at Card for interrupting his meaningless photo op with the kiddies.

I think they all knew it was coming. I think they knew it involved jetliners. I don't think they expected skyscrapers to fall, though, and certainly didn't expect nearly 3,000 people to die, although that wouldn't have been much a consideration for them had they expected it.

Nothing else can explain NORAD's delay, the jets on the ground instead of being scrambled the minute the hijackings were known, Cheney's bizarre behavior, and the other anomalies of that day except that they KNEW.

[AndyTiedye]

9. Asscroft Sent The Rest of the Jets Off to Look for Pot Smugglers

[AndyTiedye]

10. Academic When We Don't Have the Power to Stop It or Even Know About It

[Harper_is_Bush]

13. Exactly the point. The yippin' and yappin' about LIHOP is also acedemic.

[AndyTiedye]

15. Not Really. They Will Do It Again Unless They Are Exposed

It worked so well for them last time,
and nothing else is working for them.

If we don't expose them, they will do it again.

[Harper_is_Bush]

19. Who will do what? Who will do what again?

Who are you exposing to prevent what?

Just a leeetle specifics, please!

[nadinbrzezinski]

22. Nobody, you cannot wrap your head around the

concept that a Government, let alone the US Government could engage in false flag operations... in this case they took advantage of something that they knew was going to happen, but you might want to google up Operation Northwoods.

[Harper_is_Bush]

24. I can't wrap my head around it because

it's only available to certain types of heads.

[nadinbrzezinski]

27. I know, you are very trusting

bless your heart, you avoid a certain level of cynicism that comes with the territory

[Harper_is_Bush]

29. No, I am logical.

Trust yourself and your own sense of logic.

Don't assume always there must be unseen explanations.

good luck.

[AndyTiedye]

35. If It Is Neither MIHOP nor LIHOP Then WHY.......................

[Harper_is_Bush]

53. Why what? Why did Bush sit there?

Why does he do any of the things he does? Stupidity, of course.

If it was LIHOP or MIHOP don't you think he'd be thinking "oh! It's happening! Gotta look like I'm jumping to it here! Get right on this!"

Logically, yeah.

[Grateful for Hope]

54. We don't know what Andrew Card actually said to him

as none of us were there to hear it. So, whatever was said might have been the reason that Bush lingered in the classroom. Perhaps the attacks were behind schedule, for instance.

It's sad that so much of what we "know" can never be substantiated.

It's also sad that the burden of proof appears to lie on the shoulders of those who question the official story. Had this government not been so secretive (to the point of trying to prevent an investigation of 9/11), and had evidence such as the WTC steel not been "destroyed" so quickly, there would be far fewer questions in the minds of those who doubt.

[Harper_is_Bush]

55. And we don't know what color underwear he was wearing either...

which might have been a signal to someone in the bathroom to begin the attacks behind schedule.

I mean, come on.

Let's even assume that Andy Card did tell him "Sir, the attacks are behind schedule"...that would cause him to sit there?

There is nothing in the context of MIHOP or LIHOP that fits in with Bush continuing to sit there.

All it demonstrated was bad leadership, even if we accept either MIHOP or LIHOP. You still can only look at it and call it what it so obviously is, bad leadership.

[Grateful for Hope]

57. It appears you are not open-minded at all

this statement is indicative of this:

"And we don't know what color underwear he was wearing either...".

Just because YOU can't think of any reason that supports MIHOP or LIHOP does not mean there isn't one.

Yes, on the surface, it looks like bad leadership. But, since we don't have all the answers (and perhaps we never will), I don't think anyone is qualified to make such definitive statements.

This forum is an enigma to me. What could be a very valuable pro-and-con discussion forum on the anomalies of 9/11, seems to be, in reality, an often nasty brawl between 9/11 questioners and those who want to refute every single point the questioners bring up.

It would be very entertaining if not for the fact that this is a very serious issue.

[Harper_is_Bush]

66. "those who want to refute every single point the questioners bring up."

That's the problem though, there never seems to be any decent "point" brought up.

Someone throws out a picture of Bush sitting in the classroom..and that's supposed to mean something. We all know he sat there....but WHY did he continue to sit there? We know the official statement on that (didn't want to scare the kids).
Whatever the reasoning in his head at the time, it's not a "point" in favor of LIHOP or MIHOP.

It just isn't.

You could put up a picture of Bush taken in August of 2001 and ask "What is he thinking?"
We don't know. Does that mean it's possible he was thinking about MIHOP? Hey, who knows, right!? So now there's another "point" that I would just refute by saying "that's stupid" I guess.

[Grateful for Hope]

70. Yes, but if you couple that behavior

with the fact that the secret service did not act to protect the president (let alone the children in the school) by insisting the president leave the premises immediately (if, in fact, this was not LIHOP or MIHOP, they would have had no idea if other attacks were planned that day) once they knew about the two attacks on the twin towers -- things do begin to look slightly more suspicious.


I do admit that it would be a stretch to think "MIHOP" if this were the only suspicious aspect of 9/11, but, as part of a larger picture, I think it could contribute to some serious suspicions of at least "LIHOP" (although I don't think there is a qualitative difference between LIHOP and MIHOP).

Also, didn't Bush change his story a few times about his thinking and actions immediately preceding and succeeding his awareness of the hit of the 2nd tower (I could be wrong here)?

I do try to look at both sides of the argument, and, I guess it just angers me a little to see personal attacks enter the discussion of what was a very significant event, and what could be an even more significant event if all, or pieces of, what we were told is not true.

BTW...thank you very much for your response. I appreciate it.

[nadinbrzezinski]

64. You do know that all Secret Service

Procedures were violated that day too, right?

Just to put on top of NORAD and other series of procedures.

You are simply not willing to even consider it, and that is fine... someday we will know this officially. If not you and me, our children's children, And regardless of how you like to poo poo this... those kids, who will still be paying the debt incurred in their name, will be far less kind to our generation.

[Harper_is_Bush]

65. not willing to consider what?

What difference does it make if secret service procedures were violated, btw?

How does that feed into the LIHOP or MIHOP scenarios?

Same as how the pic of Bush reading to the kids does? Which is to say, not at all?

[greyl]

75. he'd be thinking "It's happening! Gotta look like I'm jumping to it here"

Very sharp point.
If he was expecting it, I'd expect to see a staged show of competent "cowboy to the rescue" behavior, not "oh shit, i have no idea what to do - where's my mommy?".
I like how those moments were treated in Fahrenheit 9/11.

[nadinbrzezinski]

59. After doing much readying the ONLY logical

concclusion is they knew about it and ALLOWED it to happen... it is you who for many reasons cannot go down that road

[greyl]

76. You used the same tactic time and time again

when you were asked to supply evidence for other things you wanted everybody to believe.
Instead of supplying evidence, you personally attack the other by accusing them of being incapable or unwilling to 'believe the same thing you do'.

[greyl]

37. You mean like you can't wrap your head around

the fact that astrologers lie to you?
You're hilarious. I'm still waiting for all those cops you said were going to be murdered because of your "authority".

[Jazz2006]

42. ....

Oh, now THAT deserves some background ~ ~ ~ do tell :)

[nadinbrzezinski]

16. I guess the Nubermberg Convitions in July of '44

were also academic.

Sooner or later we will have to face the truth... and when it happens you will be horrified. Me... I have seen some of what our government has done in the past... in the name of democracy ok... suffice it to say, it ain't pretty.

Oh and if we don't expose it, they will DO IT again...

[Harper_is_Bush]

21. I don't see how your example connects.

All the 9/11 conspiracy folks like yourself speak in non-meanings. Nothing is ever specific, it's always "oh...if THAT is allowed to happen again" or "we'll have to face the TRUTH!"

it's all good...real entertaining. Trouble is though, none of the "that" or "truth" references are ever explained.

[nadinbrzezinski]

26. Google Operation Northwoods

and the fact that President Kennedy put the kibbush on that one....

Then do some readying, not the first time a government engages in psychological operations (we have been involved in one since oh 9.11), or even false flag... but don't take my word for it, DO SOME READYING.... the truth is that some people, at the highest levels of power ALLOWED 9.11 to happen... that is the truth... but you will not be able to prove that until we have a real investigation. We haven't... you tell me WHY?

[Harper_is_Bush]

30. I know governments have engaged in "psychological operations"

it's going on as we speak.

What bearing to you think that has on your theories? Zero.

Stop pretending that the existence of dishonesty and/or pretense elsewhere supports whatever bizarre belief you hold.

[rman]

56. Northwoods was not psy-ops

It was a plan to use a remote controlled airplane to fake an incident with a US passenger plane and blame it on Cuba, for the purpose of creating a reason for open military action against Cuba.

It proves the technology existed back then (so it certainly does now), and it proves the certain elements in the government and various govt agencies are capable of coming up with such plans and seriously consider putting it to practice.
The same elements who conceived of that plan have more power now then they ever had.

[nadinbrzezinski]

60. Northwoods was a tad more than just pshycological

if it had been carried out, the military woudl have had the "cause" to invade Cuba... imagine 9.11 in 1960

[serryjw]

3. Feingold was on C-Span

Neither living in pre 1776 or Bushits' post 9-11 is acceptable ( paraphased)

[nadinbrzezinski]

5. Then he should talk to JFK

those who prevent peaceful revolutions from happening, ensure the violent kind... paraphrasing

[Jazz2006]

44. Nice trick, that. would be....

since JFK's been dead for several decades.

[nadinbrzezinski]

61. I know, but at least he can talk to the brother

and discuss this quote.

[Telly Savalas]

8. IHOP

[nadinbrzezinski]

11. RLOL

[dailykoff]

32. IHOP it was.

The details will come out in time but on this point there's no doubt, and the more people discuss it the sooner the general populace will wake up.

[populistdriven]

33. google "able danger" No question they let it happen!

[dailykoff]

38. Right, and "able danger" was just the casting department.

They still had to put on the show.

[quickesst]

51. Tlhe 9/11 Debunker's Club.....

need better recruiting. huh? what? who? where? why? when? OH YEAH!!!:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[seemslikeadream]

69. THERE MUST HAVE BEEN A MILITARY ORDER

BUDDY BUDDY
http://www.gsnmagazine.com.nyud.net:8090/images/aug_05/atta.jpg
DO THE MATH

24 MINUTES

THERE MUST HAVE BEEN A MILITARY ORDER WATCH THIS VIDEO

http://www.bushflash.com/buddy.html


http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2005/8/24/124834/678


DIA Agents were ordered to put yellow Post-its over Atta's face and the face's of 3 other 9/11 terrorists

"We were directed to take those 3M yellow stickers and place them over the faces of Atta and the other terrorists and pretend they didn't exist," the intelligence officer told GSN."

Intel agents Michael Shaffer and Scott Philpott have confirmed Rep. Weldon's claims that a chart with Atta's face, soon the photos of 3 other members of the 9-11 terror team, were known to DIA team Able Danger by early 2000.

This diary will show that Pete Schoomaker and Philip Zelikow are two of the main Perpetraitors in this scandal, that they deliberately withheld information from the President of the United States that would have prevented 9/11, that they and their neo-con rulers Let It Happen On Purpose.

Of this there can no longer be any doubt.



MUST READ - RE: ABLE DANGER INFO
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4447706

Hopsicker: Able Danger Intel Exposed "Protected" Heroin Trafficking
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x149481


Able Danger: Short Time-line
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4441903

Was Able Danger Shut Down After It Detected Condi-PRC Spy Ring?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4494524



Senate May Hold Hearings on Able Danger, Info Sharing
Thursday, August 25, 2005


Able Danger (search) is the code name for a military-intelligence unit that apparently learned a year before the Sept. 11, 2001, terror attacks that lead hijacker Mohamed Atta (search) and other terrorists were already in the United States.

One of the central Able Danger claims — that military lawyers blocked the sharing of the Atta information from the FBI in the late summer and early fall of 2000 — will be a focus of the committee's if a hearing takes place, FOX News has confirmed.

Some analysts involved with Able Danger have recently gone public with their findings, saying they were discouraged from looking further into Atta, and their attempts to share their information with the FBI were thwarted, because Atta was a legal foreign visitor at the time.

"This story needs to be told. The American people need to be told what could have been done to prevent 3,000 people from losing their lives," said Rep. Curt Weldon (search), R-Pa.

Weldon drew attention to Able Danger by speaking about it on the House floor and publicly calling for the Sept. 11 commission to explain why the intelligence information wasn't detailed in its final report.

Some Able Danger analysts, including Army Reserve Lt. Col. Anthony Shaffer (search) and Navy Capt. Scott Phillpott (search), claim that in October 2003, they told commission staffers of the presence of Al Qaeda operatives in the United States in 2000.


more
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,166800,00.html


Senate May Hold Hearings on Able Danger, Info Sharing
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=1727804&mesg_id=1727804




Condi in Middle of Able Danger ‘Cover Up’"

Weldon is now saying that the Pentagon cover up of able danger “will shake the country to its roots."

...

If the claims made by the Able Danger participants and Rep. Weldon are confirmed, former National Security Adviser Rice and other Bush Administration officials will face a barrage of questions. First would likely be an inquiry into why the administration unceremoniously axed the Able Danger project in May of 2001.

During an August 20th interview on C-Span’s Washington Journal, Able Danger member Lt. Col. Schaffer posed a question of his own:

"The American public should ask themselves: Why would the leadership of DoD shut down, terminate, a project which was aimed at targeting al-Qaeda offensively? ...

"Why would they shut that down, four months before 9/11? That’s the big question right now, we have to ask that. I don’t know the answer to that question because I know my side of the story, I know that when a 2 star general got in my face and said, “I’m a 2 star general and you are not. You are to stop your support of Able Danger.” That’s what I know personally. But the question has to be: Who told him to do that? ...

"And why did the rest of the project, I’m talking about Special Operations Command and the Army portion of this, why was that terminated?

"Those are the questions that need to be asked."


more...

http://www.theinternationalpost.com/z30082005.html

Congressman Weldon -- Why now? Why ever?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=4500623

Three more assert Pentagon knew of 9/11 ringleader By Will Dunham

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Three more people associated with a secret U.S. military intelligence team have asserted that the program identified September 11 ringleader Mohammed Atta as an Al Qaeda suspect inside the United States more than a year before the 2001 attacks, the Pentagon said on Thursday.

The Pentagon said a three-week review had turned up no documents to back up the assertion, but did not rule out that such documents relating to the classified operation had been destroyed.

Navy Capt. Scott Phillpott and Army Lt. Col. Anthony Shaffer last month came forward with statements that a secret intelligence program code-named "Able Danger" had identified Atta, the lead hijacker in the attacks that killed 3,000 people, in early 2000. Pennsylvania Republican Rep. Curt Weldon (news, bio, voting record), vice chairman of the House of Representatives Armed Services Committee, also went public with the allegations.

Pat Downs, a senior policy analyst in the office of the undersecretary of defense for intelligence, told reporters that as part of the review, the Pentagon interviewed 80 people.

Downs said that three more people, as well as Phillpott and Shaffer, recalled the existence of an intelligence chart identifying Atta by name. Four of the five recalled a photo of Atta accompanying the chart, Downs said.

Pentagon officials declined to identify the three by name, but said they were an analyst with the military's Special Operations Command, an analyst with the Land Information Warfare Assessment Center and a contractor who supported the center.

Downs said all five were considered "credible people."

But officials said an exhaustive search of tens of thousands of documents and electronic files related to Able Danger failed to find the chart or other documents corroborating the identification of Atta. Phillpott has said Atta was identified by Able Danger by January or February of 2000.

"We have not discovered that chart," Downs said.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20050901/pl_nm/security_attacks_pentagon_dc


Three more assert Pentagon knew of 9/11 ringleader
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=1744982&mesg_id=1744982

Specter Wants Answers About 'Able Danger'
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=1796658&mesg_id=1796658


NYT/Reuters: Pentagon Blocks Testimony at Senate Hearing on Terrorist
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=1795221&mesg_id=1795221

NOW - ON CAPITOL HILL - Able Danger Inquiry CSPAN3 9:30am et
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4836496

Able Danger ties Condi Rice to Chinese espionage! (really!)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=4846388&mesg_id=4846388

VIDEO-the Senate Judicial Committee ABLE DANGER saga
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?

Official: (Curt Weldon) Attack on Cole foreseen (ABLE DANGER)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=1915365&mesg_id=1915365

New 9/11 Timeline update, with new Able Danger page
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?

Weldon seeks Defense testimony on al-Qaida
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=1931300

Weldon rips 9/11 commission over intelligence failures
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=1959226

General gave OK for Able Danger (confirms al-Qaida mission prior to 9/11)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=1973724

[m0nkeyneck]

58. LIHOP is not very probable

risk 2 hi;

[nadinbrzezinski]

62. That is MIHOP

that requires way too many people. LIHOP you can keep contained to the true believers.

Mind you, why haven't we had a REAL investigation? Oh yes the favorite excuse we are at war. Well during 1941 to 1946 there was MORE than one Congressional Investigation, seriously done into what went wrong at Pearl Harbor... I believe the country was at war too, what is worst, it was done by the Congress, against their President, but then again we should speak of the Truman Commission, who out a kibbush on war profiteering.

[m0nkeyneck]

71. i'm sure we will all get to find out someday ;-)

[Virginia Dare]

68. Ask yourself a question...

who gained the most from 9/11?

[Chomp]

72. Osama Bin Laden nt

[mirandapriestly]

73. How so, specifically,

and can you prove he is even alive?

[Chomp]

77. Why should I need to prove

that OBL is still alive Miranda? Pray tell, what on earth that has anything to do with the question the poster asked? For crying out loud, please try to stay a bit on-topic.

....

OBL gained most because his plan worked almost to perfection. (I use the word "his" loosly and do not want to be hanged on it. It's exact meaning is a topic for another debate. I also use the term "AQ" rather than AQ, so please bear this in mind.).

He's a terrorist and spread terror. He also spread paranoia. He drew the US into committing various acts of madness that have greatly wekened its global position and standing. He cost the US billions of dollars. He fundamentally weakend American democracy(!). He has divided the United States and outwitted it's leader. He has split her from her natural allies and tied her down in ridiculous wars.

He provided an event that invigorated his movement, giving young radicals a rallying-point. He made himself the most important story on the planet for 5 years.

Mission Accomplished and then some.

...

But OBL/"AQ" is a zealot blinded by ideology, and so has made many, many mistakes too.

First among them, his belief that a terror organisation could shock and awe the West into giving up it's decadent lifestyle. There was a point when these jihadists genuinely believed the West was so weakened by its inherent corruption that it was a house of cards ready for blowing over. I really doubt many of them still do.

Now, they are more likely to want to perp terrorism as a kind of retribution for the generalised complaints of the Arab/Muslim/Middle Eastern world, like Iraq. Which of course goes to prove how utterly insane the Iraq war was. Hand a victory to a guy (OBL) who is so unstable he could never gain one himself. HeckuvajobMonkeyboy.

The bombings in Jordan and Eqypt were another huge tactical error, alienating "AQ" from the people of those countries, and showing themselves to be the complete lunatics they really are. Does he really think that bombing weddings is a way to win friends and influence people? MAybe, but then he and his cabal are nutters.

I think their own ideology will be their own undoing. Your average middle-estern man in the street no more wants to live in calaphyte (sp?) than I do. These guys have always been marginalised in their own countries (just look at the "Power of Nightmares" for confirmation) so to hand them the victories of a botched Afghanistan a disasterous Iraq was just utter madenss.

AQ should have been tackled with stealth and old-fashioned (but hi tech!) police work, Infiltrate them, follow the evidence, put them on trial etc. Then allow them to implode under the weight of their own unpopularity in their home countries.

...

But George Bush made loads of money for his friends! Yeah, ok. Thanks in advance.




Ed for typo

[mirandapriestly]

79. Just wondered why he wasn't being held accountable

you don't really know anything that he has done since 9-11, so how do you know he has benefitted? But we DO know what Bush & Co have been up to and everything you say about obl is speculation. The Bush admin. has used 911 to put the kabbash on any kind of investigation into almost anything they do,on the grounds that we would be "supporting the terrorists", I would considered that a benefit. Bushler's approval went from 30 before to 90 afterwards. That, and money, are CONCRETE benefits, not to mention support for a war that never would have been supported otherwise. Not to mention the , in writing, plans for a need for such an event. That makes a much stronger case than obl was "a zealot blinded by ideology" - yeah, who has a CIA background.

[Virginia Dare]

78. Agreed, OBL did gain from 9/11...

but who gained THE MOST? I would argue that the military industrial machine gained FAR more than OBL both politically and financially from 9/11.

[ConspiracyTheorist]

80. Afghanistan ;)

[mirandapriestly]

81. Well, the poppy growers maybe...nt