Did I just hear Wolfie correctly on CNN?...

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

...Did he say the Pentagon has admitted removing some frames from the footage of that security camera showing something hitting the Pentagon? Unless I heard wrong, he went on to state it was because the image it did capture would likely have fueled conspiracy theory and they didn't want to do that. Then he just moved right on like that was nothing unusual or worthy of any additional comment, not even a pause.

Someone tell me I just dreamed what I saw on CNN. INCREDIBLE.

Admitting to withholding evidence because it doesn't seem to support their story. I'll say it again...INCREDIBLE!!!!

[wtmusic]

1. The Pentagon knows best

Please let them present reality the way it should be presented. Thank you.

[rodeodance]

2. k, I do not know but will kick for you.

[debbierlus]

3. Look up the transcript and post it on the web!

That is an important little tid-bit!

[KoKo]

23. The transcript won't be up for awhile ....will be interesting to read.

[PATRICK]

134. You would think

a person would have to be drunk to read that off a script. Either it would be a misreading or ploughed judgment in going ahead with it.

A lie is one thing. Going nuts on air is another.

[rniel]

4. Seems to me If there's no conspiracy

Showing every single bit of frame captured of it would've dispelled any conspiracy theory.

[pberq]

183. what about the official conspiracy theory?

http://www.opednews.com/articles/opedne_len_hart_060518_bush_s_biggest_fraud.htm

. . .Consider Bush's official conspiracy theory with respect to 911. It goes something like this. bin Laden sits at the head of a vast and super secret world wide conspiracy the likes of which has not been seen since Smersh. There are several things wrong with the official conspiracy theory but let's deal with the most obvious ones.

* Despite posturing by Bush and Cheney, the facts are these: Bush ignored hard evidence from top intelligence officials between April and September of 2001 about an impending attacks on U.S. soil. Why? If Bush really wanted Bin Laden, he blew SEVERAL opportunities. One of them in July, prior to 911. The Guardian and the French newspaper Le Figaro reported that bin Laden received dialysis treatment for a period of some 10 days at the American hospital in Dubai, and while there, he was visited by a local CIA agent. It was also about this time that U.S. State Department officials were threatening Afghanistan with carpet bombing if the Taliban didn't come to terms on the proposed Unocal pipeline across Afghanistan.

Bush had other opportunities to seize bin Laden but didn't. See: Alexander Cockburn: Bush was offered bin Laden and Blew It.
* Keep in mind, when the CIA was reported to have visited bin Laden in Dubai, 911 had not happened. But, already the Bush State Department was spoiling for a war. All it needed was a pretext that the gullible American public would buy! It got it —conveniently —on 911!

[NJ_Lib]

5. I've been asking about those pictures for years...

... First I heard there were no pictures... Ok, right... This is the Pentagon we're talking about, right? So, I knew that was BS, and then I heard that five stills were released by the military, for trial or for family viewing, I forget...

And now this? Anyone know more about this?

[robertpaulsen]

36. Then there's the gas station video of the Pentagon the FBI confiscated.

I'm not a huge believer in the missile theory, but still...what is the government hiding?!

[ovidsen]

64. I've been looking for that gas station

I used to live right next to the Pentagon (Crystal City) and drove by the Pentagon nearly every day on Washington Bvd (27), Shirley Highway (395), etc.

I'll be damned if I can remember a gas station anywhere with a line of sight view of the "crash" site.

Anybody care to refresh my memory?

[robertpaulsen]

89. Here's a link with a picture.

I'm not from the area, so I'm not sure what road this is off of:

http://911research.wtc7.net/pentagon/evidence/footage.html

[dave123williams]

127. That link doesn't work?

[robertpaulsen]

137. Hmm...works for me.

Anyone else have trouble?

[DoYouEverWonder]

169. Looks like a gas station to me

[Jara sang]

186. here it is

http://local.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&cp=38.869807~-77.063935&style=o&lvl=2&scene=2993964

[Tuesday_Morning]

6. kickin for the curious

:kick:

[C_U_L8R]

7. What a freekin' sideshow distraction

emphasis on the distraction.
They are doing everything in their power to shake us off their tail...
hold on tight and don't let em get away this time.

[tridim]

10. It isn't going to work

Most people can multitask just fine.

I do agree this is meant to distract, just that it wont work.

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

12. I feel like the media...

...in cooperation with the Neocon power structure is patting me on the head like I'm a little five year old and saying "You run along now and play, this is a matter for grownups, don't you worry about it."

Removing those frames that captured the incoming object for fear of what we might make of it, and then admitting that they have done so...I'm still drying the coffee on my shirt.

[Duer 157099]

8. WTF??? Are you kidding???

This is too much. I've got my recorder recording CNN right now, so I'll try to find that (later when I can). Amazing if that's the logic they're using. And yet... hardly surprising.

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

16. It's the gist of what I think I heard. nt.

[opihimoimoi]

9. Just when the Polls are LOW..they remind us of 9/11

Clever these guys...distract us with minutiae

[ElsewheresDaughter]

18. hahaha yup......

[madinmaryland]

25. BWAHAHAHA

:rofl:

Love that toon!!!

9-11, terra, 9-11, 9-11, . . . .

[BrklynLiberal]

44. YEAH! What a coinky-dent. That is EXACTLY what this film is about.

It is a distraction attraction by BushCo..and that is all it is. It will offer no new insights or useful info. You know they made sure of that.

[Saboburns]

11. I saw that

And then some dunderheaded talker came on there and kept repeating how this was a good idea cause the 'movie' wasn't good enough to see a plane and that it might increase speculation about it being a missile.

Same DH then literally shook his head as he repeated how the preponderence of evidence from 9/11 should leave no doubt as to what happened that day.

Now I'm not a conspiracy fellow. I haven't given this particular conspiracy much credence.

But. Goddam.

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

14. I've been very slow...

...to bringing myself to question their story on Flt 77, mainly just been turning away from the story for fear of the truth I'd have to face...but it's damn near impossible to accept their account of events when they do stuff like this.

[bobbieinok]

24. have stayed away from the pentagon plane controversy b/c it seems

too weird

BUT if they cut info b/c it's 'not appropriate for children'.....good grief, Charlie Brown!!!

[DoYouEverWonder]

174. Exactly, this is not coming from the WH or the Pentagon

This is the can or worms they have been desperately trying to keep covered from day 1. That's why they keep stepping in it everytime they open their mouths.

[sarcasmo]

13. I would place a bet on a missile more than a Plane.

Wouldn't a Plane have scattered debris?

[Big Kahuna]

17. No, the Pentagon is made of Kryptonite and vaporizes planes instantly.

:eyes:

[Usrename]

92. Nothing to see here folks, just move along.

Flying that fast in ground effect would be something of a major event. I am not convinced it is even possible. Chuck Yeager used to some interesting stuff like that, in a fighter plane.

[NJ_Lib]

21. I know a couple of pilots who laugh at their story of 911 and...

... the Pentagon... They say those pilots had to be some doggone Hudinis to pull this off... Coming from the angle they were, at 350 miles per hour, hitting your mark 80 feet off the ground, well, that's just like winning the lottory five time in a row...

Hey, it can happen.... :sarcasm:

[flyarm]

29. WELL NOW YOU KNOW A NOW RETIRED FLIGHT ATTENDANT

WHO FLEW the 757 who thinks its all bullshit as well!!

and i worked for American!

and was 2001 flt attend of the year for NY base in 2001!


fly

[NJ_Lib]

33. It is truly an honor...

... to know you... Thanks for confirming what I suspect... I also wonder why we know all of the other passangers so well but flight 77? The only one I can name is Barbara Olson... Hmmmm...

[BrklynLiberal]

An honor to meet you.

[flyarm]

53. I HAVE WATCHED THESE TAPES SINCE THEY BROKE NOW OVER AND OVER ON CNN

and i assure you from the pics they show and stop at what they are calling a 757..i will tell you ..its not fat enough, not high enough and its nose it too pointy!

and i have pictures of me standing and sitting in a 757 engine..with another flight attendant..and i sure as hell know how high that aircraft is..and whant they are showing is no 757.,.they can bullshit all they want but that is no 757!

i would bet the farm on that!

i took early retirement after the rockaway crash because i no longer trusted my government and to go out and speak and get the truth out there..

there is no truth with this administration and as far as i am concerned the "offical story" and the 9/11 commission is nothing but bullshit!

and please don't be honored..i was just a lady who loved my job..and was good at my job..but never give up the fight for truth..ever..

i will go to my grave fighting for truth of 9/11

those were my co-workers and my neighbors from Middletown Nj who died in the wtc and on flt 77...

fly

[BrklynLiberal]

61. I respect your fight for the truth and join you in it.

From the moment I saw that second plane hit the WTC, I knew that there were major problems with this government.
Actually I knew that right after election day 2000. Until 9/11 I was just angry. Afterward, I was scared, really scared.
I am glad to know that someone in the industry agrees with the conclusions that many of us have drawn about this entire tragedy.
The release of this meaningless "film" is just a way to distract the sheeple from the important things that are going on in this country right now.

IT is just another way to shout "Terror Terror" so the sheeple will get frightened again, and think they have to run to "Daddy George" for protection. :puke: :mad: :spank: :grr: :nuke: :banghead:

[shadowknows69]

82. how big are the older bomber launched cruise missles

at 600 mph anything flying into a building is probably going to look like a large plane.

[flyarm]

91. problem is ..it does not look like a large plane..

i have now run it in slow mo and stopped the tape i made today..and it looks like anything ..but... a large aircraft to me!

fly

[DoYouEverWonder]

172. Are you aware of the C130

that was reported to have flown over the Pentagon within a minute of the attack?

Supposedly these guys just happened to be in the area and got a call to check out the incoming 'Flight 77'. Yet very few 'eyewitnesses' mention this 2nd plane chasing the first plane. I would think a C130 would make a hell of a lot of noise trying to catch up with a hijacked plane?



At about 9:38 AM, a twin-engine jetliner flew into the Pentagon and exploded, according to numerous eyewitnesses on the ground. A Minnesota National Guard C-130 that had just taken off from nearby Andrews Air Force Base followed the jetliner in the seconds before it crashed. The pilot of the C-130, who described the plane as either a 757 or 767, provided the following account.
It was like coming up to an intersection. When air traffic control asked me if we had him in sight, I told him that was an understatement - by then, he had pretty much filled our windscreen. Then he made a pretty aggressive turn so he was moving right in front of us, a mile and a half, two miles away.
...
They told us to turn and follow that aircraft - in 20-plus years of flying, I've never been asked to do something like that. With all of the East Coast haze, I had a hard time picking him out.
The next thing I saw was the fireball. It was huge. I told Washington the airplane has impacted the ground. Shook everyone up pretty good. I told them the approximate location was close to the Potomac. I figured he'd had some in-flight emergency and was trying to get back on the ground to Washington National. Suddenly, I could see the outline of the Pentagon. It was horrible. I told Washington this thing has impacted the west side of the Pentagon.

http://911research.wtc7.net/planes/attack/flight77.html

[Grateful for Hope]

175. I was in NY at the time

and, it was a beautiful, clear day. I don't know where this pilot was seeeing haze, but, it sure wasn't in the NY area. Perhaps DC had haze?

:shrug:

[DoYouEverWonder]

177. It was a beautiful clear fall day

all along the East Coast.

From the pictures of the attack at the Pentagon, there is no indication of any haze in the air.

[Grateful for Hope]

178. That's what I thought

thank you for the validation!

[FogerRox]

109. Submarine launched cruise missles. There is one on a sub in NYC

at the Intrepid Museum. Not too big.

[adigal]

120. Hi! I used to live in Lincroft, NJ

and when my husband became a NYC firefighter, we moved to upstate NY. He was working on 9/11 and he was disabled by the clean-up at the WTC and is now retired.

I have not been following the Pentagon story, but it does sound fishy, except that I really can't get my brain around why the hell they would do such a thing? As far as the WTCs go, many, many people I know saw those planes hit, there was live film, and others here are claiming that no planes hit them either.

That is just craziness.

[DoYouEverWonder]

171. Thank you for speaking out

We need more people like you who have inside information to refute all the red herring throwers.

[Chimichurri]

60. I'm on the fence-hurts my brain but I've heard my marine friend has said

the same thing about flying so low but if that airplane wasn't what hit the Pentagon, where'd that plane and all the passengers go?

[NJ_Lib]

67. Play the scene out in your mind...

... A 757 jet going 350 miles per hour, only 80 feet above the ground, hitting a bulls-eye square in the middle... Think about that... I have no answers, only questions... Unfortunately, the only people who know the answers aren't talking...

[Chimichurri]

70. I hear ya, that makes more sense then some newly trained

suicider maneuvering a giant airplane with such precission i'm left with more questions myself - like where the hell did that plane go and whoever were the rescuers/clean up crew why didn't one of them come forward.

Many, many questions.

[DoYouEverWonder]

176. I have a crazy theory

about who could have done this.

BushCo has been courting the rapture ready fundies for years. All over the country are mega churches that are focusing on recruiting young impressionable teens and adults. Some of these groups are becoming somewhat militant. The Army of God is one example.

Maybe Bush's black ops folks recruited rapture ready Bushbots to pull this off? For example, the Let's Roll Team on Flight 93 were all young, dark haired, incredibly fit, very religious men. They will never betray their lord and are willing to die for their cause. Only the most devout need apply.

[DoYouEverWonder]

173. There was enough time

to land and put all the passengers on one plane.




Flight 77

----------




Flight 93


Flight 93 supposedly got stuck on the ground. When Flight 77 takes the little detour towards Morgantown, WV is when Flight 93 finally takes off. The Flight 77 comes back to the original course, when Flight 93 catches up to where it should have been if it left on time.

What I don't know, is what did these planes do and where did they really go for almost 2 hours. This is why so many war games were going on that morning. It created lots of confusion and in the confusion, two planes could easily landed or 'disappeared'.

[Justice Is Comin]

69. That's what got me.

The twin towers are at least very prominent above the New York sky line and someone who really knew how to fly an airliner could aim it enough to hit it.

But the Pentagon is only a few stories high. For a plane of that size to hit dead on only 30-50 feet off the ground flying at that speed, is something out of Flash Gordon. What about all the obstacles it has to avoid coming in at that altitude? Let alone, the very common liklihood that the plane would stall that close to the ground unless it was a stunt plane.

Now, also the minor factor that these are Arabs who just took a few flying lessons. ....Oy.

[Chimichurri]

71. Weren't there witnesses to the low flying plane? I thought people

on the highway all saw the plane fly over them.

[shadowknows69]

85. A winged missle moving that fast would look like a plane

:tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat:

[DoYouEverWonder]

179. Especially

if you decorate it appropriately.

A special coat of UAA silver wouldn't be hard to do. Stick a few wings on it for show.

[Old and In the Way]

158. 450MPH is 660 feet/second.

That's 2+ football fields length. What details could register on the mind of an object that is viewed for 1 or 2 seconds? Not much.

[shadowknows69]

84. I think a tomahawk missle could make that hit though

Nope I didn't say that. Nothing to see. Move along.

[DoYouEverWonder]

180. Remember those 'smart' missiles they had in Baghdad?

I remember reporters saying they saw them go to a street corner, stop, turn on a dime and go in a different direction toward their targets. It was praised has an example of isn't war great with this new technology because it was so accurate.

[yella_dawg]

103. M$M is reporting 500+ mph

acording to an analysis of the film. Since when can a 757 cook along at that kind of speed at sea level?

[NJ_Lib]

107. Yeah, I thought I heard it was 350mph...

... Now it's 525mph... Even worse... So, let me get this straight, this 757 was traveling at 525mph, basically at ground level, until it reached it's target dead-on, not hitting the ground once, until right before impact... And this is from pilots who are young and inexperienced in flying, only partially trained, you know, terrorists...


Someone please explain to me how this is possible?

[treestar]

124. Flight 77 was supposedly piloted by the terrorist who had been

so poor in flight school that the FAA should not have licensed him - I remember reading criticism for the FAA over that.

[NJ_Lib]

135. And the plot thickens... That's interesting...

... I need to go find this story... Thanks for pointing this out...

[The Straight Story]

104. Um, how do we know they hit their mark :)

They might have been aiming for the middle to increase the damage and screwed up....

[NJ_Lib]

114. Well, you could be right but...

... if those guys "screwed up", all I have to say is, damn, they're good... Even when they screw up they get it right... If they wanted to hit the center of the Pentagon, they could have done it with a lot less difficulty than what they pulled off here... They could have just come in high and nose-dived straight into the center of the building... That doesn't sound that difficult to do... Don't forget all the obstacles they had to duck while coming in to the Pentagon... Talk to any pilot and ask them if they could pull off this type of manuever...

[Old and In the Way]

159. Speaking of marks...here's a satellite pic taken on 9/7

This is interesting....notice the line on the lawn? It is, coincidentally, on the exact path of 77 into the Pentagon.

<>

[Jara sang]

15. kick for the truth

I want to read this thread later.

[katinmn]

19. The pentagon reporter from CNN said there were other

videos that had been confiscated and hidden away.

Bet it won't be repeated.

[Duer 157099]

27. That is well known (to some of us anyway, the ones who follow this)

The hotel across the street, the gas station, both had video that was confiscated on 9/11.

Not to mention the dozens of cameras on the Pentagon roof... don't those have film in them? Not all of them were destroyed...

[ovidsen]

72. Maybe its flawed memory

But I lived in Crystal City, near the Pentagon on 9/11. The blast knocked me off my feet. And I used to drive around there every day.

I do not remember any gas station or hotel "across the street" from the Pentagon. It's basically surrounded by Washington Blvd. (27), Shirley Highway (I-395) and Columbia Pike (244). I do not recall a single hotel or gas station with a birds eye view of the Pentagon.

So maybe I'm wrong?

For the record, I hate conspiracy theories, but ther are "facts" about the Pentagon 9/11 crash has always struck me as weird. That afternoon, the local media quoted eyewitnesses saying a passenger jet hit the building... and others who said it was a fighter or a missle.

And then we get fuzzy still shots from a bad video camera, and are told this was the ONLY surveillance camera that got a picture of a terrorist attack on the military headquarters of the world's only superpower?

Something smells here.

[Duer 157099]

81. Across the street... down the block... across the city...

*somewhere* that would have captured it anyway.

Here's a great page with specific info, that should help:

http://perso.wanadoo.fr/jpdesm/pentagon/pages-en/fct-videos.html

[ovidsen]

90. Thanks!

That's a great link.

I'm guessing the hotel only had security cameras around lobby/ground floor... and no view of the Pentagon there.

But I'd forgotten about that gas station! Hmmmm....

Thanks again.

[Duer 157099]

94. The hotel... I recall hearing that the workers there

were sitting around and re-watching the video right after it happened, because they couldn't believe what they saw. Until the Feds showed up very soon thereafter and confiscated the tape. So, whatever tape they had at the hotel, it did apparently capture something worth watching.

Problem is, I can't recall the source of that story, and it's just as likely to just be a story as true -- but I do recall hearing it, fwiw.

[NJ_Lib]

102. Couldn't this scene be recreated and studied to see if...

... it's even physically possible with a 757? Also, I've seen worse aviation disasters, where impact occurred at greater speed than 350 miles per hour, and the area was covered with pieces of everything, everywhere, hung up in trees, in the air, in the water, everywhere... Wouldn't some of the plane explode outward, leaving evidence in front of the Pentagon? There has got to be a way to test out this senario... Was the Pentagon like jello, it sucked in every last piece of this plane? Damn, I wish I was a pilot right now...

[Old and In the Way]

160. You can do it!

Get Microsoft Flight Simulator, program a flight in realistic mode. It comes preprogrammed with a 767 (close enough for this experiment). Have it oriented to fly over the Patomac at 7000', cruising at 375 MPH. Then execute a 220 degree turn over Reagan Airport, dropping 7000 feet and try to hit the Pentagon. I destroyed the virtual airframe a dozen times or so before I was able to figure out the right combination of throttle, speed brakes, flaps, and banking....than another dozen times before I could even hit the Pentagon.

I've yet to get a line up and crash at the location 77 went in though. Hans Hanjour, the failed Cessna pilot, was a vertible stunt pilot in a 757.

[MissWaverly]

20. Is It TRUTH yet????

Kicked for truth, justice and the American Way!

[onehandle]

22. It was an AIRLINER. There were WITNESSES. This video is DISINFORMATION.

More useless grainy footage to get us to don our tinfoil suits.

They don't want us to talk about the FACT that that BUSH FAILED TO PROTECT US.

They want us to talk about CONSPIRACIES.

You are falling for Rove's plan - hook, line, and sinker - if you talk about anything except BUSH FAILING TO PROTECT US.

Witnesses:
http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/blflight77w.htm

[KoKo]

26. hmmm like the Kennedy Assasination "Theories" that led to another

commission and kept the story alive for years? Seems to me that alot more investigation should be done about 9/11 than that rushed job with Bushies hand picked people serving. Wouldn't 'cha think?

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

28. When they fail to...

...provide supporting evidence for their official version of events we should question it, and press them for the evidence, which is all I'm doing. This is quite different from devising alternative explanations and theories, which I have generally avoided doing.

[chill_wind]

32. K&R

Kick and recommend!

[underpants]

30. I agree we need to talk about their complete imcompetence

[Media_Lies_Daily]

31. Right. Why am I reminded of the Warren Commission Report?

[petgoat]

38. You're saying discussing the evidence is talking about conspiracies.

That's putting blinders on rational thought by leaping to imagined conclusions.

I couldn't think about the explosives in the WTC issue rationally as long as I
assumed it required government complicity. Only when I realized that al Qaeda
could have rented offices in the WTC and planted the explosives was I able to
consider the evidence without the excess baggage of premature uncomfortable
conclusions.

[Rockholm]

45. Lookie Here. My tinfoil will stay in place, Thank You.

http://www.apfn.org/apfn/flight77.htm

[BrklynLiberal]

48. Exactly. We are talking about this crap instead of phone tapping, Iraq,

medicare, KKKarl Rove, etc

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

62. All important issues for discussion...

...but I don't see how the existence of this thread prevents or in any way inhibits the starting of threads on any of the topics you just mentioned. I'll bet there are discussions on them right here at DU going on as we speak and with plenty of participation.

Could the motivation for your post possibly have more to do with how you perceive the topic of this thread reflecting on DU, than with taking attention or discussion participation away from other threads on topics that meet with your approval?

[BrklynLiberal]

87. No.

[marions ghost]

79. OK well "this crap" led to Iraq

hmmm... and Homeland Security and phone tapping...and squeezing medicare

As for KKKarl, there's not much to discuss today. Karl is in his charnel house and all is right in Hell ...for the moment. :evilgrin:

I don't think the events of 9-11 have been put to rest in most people's minds...so much is fishy.

[BrklynLiberal]

88. This entire "movie" is fishy, and that was my point.

[BrklynLiberal]

86. By "this crap" I meant the "movie" that was released. I am a total MIHOP

when it comes to Bush and 9/11.

You both misunderstood what I was referring to. Did you read post #22 to which this was a response?


There are those with much more experience than I have that agree this "movie" is crap.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=1206560&mesg_id=1207811

[marions ghost]

101. OK

if you will read post 22 again you might see how I got confused...it appeared to me that you were agreeing with post 22 (which says "It was an airliner...") I took it to mean that you were saying questioning 9-11 is crap.

Sorry for the misunderstanding--I see we're in agreement, the movie is crap.

[Pacifist Patriot]

105. What if they are all connected?

What if this crap is what provided the government with the perceived authority to tap phones and invade Iraq?

[NJ_Lib]

73. If you're right, then those pilots were some of the best...

... the world has ever seen... Going 350 miles per hour, 80 feet off the ground, hitting their target dead-on... They must have been training for this and nothing else since they were 3... And why is it that the other passangers from the other flights are household names by now but the only name I remember from flight 77 is Barbara Olson?...

Hey, could be, but I need more proof either way... That's what happens when your government lies to you... You're not sure what to believe anymore...


Edited: Spelling

[catnhatnh]

168. Hey NJ....It gets better...

Pentagon is 5 stories/77ft high....the initial hole in the pentagon made by the fuselage was in the 1st and 2nd floor about 17ft in diameter....2/5 of 77ft=31ft(approx).Now we take 31-17=14ft and divide to get 7' as the height of the fuselage above the ground and below the floor of the 3rd story.....so if the damage is correctly described,that bad boy was flown in with a MAXIMUM altitude of 14FT and minimum altitude controlled by the fact that the engines hanging below the wings made no marks on the lawn (google:pentalawn)I wonder how far below the fuselage the engines hang??? You get my drift,Vern???

[Minnesota Libra]

99. onehandle, I lived through the Kennedy's assassination and Watergate......

.....and have NEVER ONCE trusted my government again. This is another situation that will go into the history books a few years before we find out the truth if we ever find the truth.

I'm not saying I have all the answers because I don't but when they tell me a huge plane hit the Pentagon and no wings were found and no pattern on the building where the wings hit were found then I've got some major questions.

[Jeffersons Ghost]

123. finally the voice of reason cries out with your post onehandle

You sum it up exactly and even a bad pilot could hit the mark at 500 MPH. This is all bushit.

[NJ_Lib]

153. Yeah but...

... traveling twenty feet off the ground? Without actually hitting the ground once, until the very end? I really don't think so... Not an inexperienced and poorly trained pilot, sorry... It's like winning the lottery without playing... 99.9% it didn't happen this way... Ask a pilot you meet next time how long they could hold the airplane while traveling at 500+ miles per hour, twenty feet off the ground...

[rman]

138. Disinfo *officially* released by the Pentagon, sure that makes sense...

[Duppers]

152. right on! nt

!

[pberq]

184. what about the official conspiracy theory?

As long as we're discussing conspiracy theories

http://www.opednews.com/articles/opedne_len_hart_060518_bush_s_biggest_fraud.htm

. . .Consider Bush's official conspiracy theory with respect to 911. It goes something like this. bin Laden sits at the head of a vast and super secret world wide conspiracy the likes of which has not been seen since Smersh. There are several things wrong with the official conspiracy theory but let's deal with the most obvious ones.

* Despite posturing by Bush and Cheney, the facts are these: Bush ignored hard evidence from top intelligence officials between April and September of 2001 about an impending attacks on U.S. soil. Why? If Bush really wanted Bin Laden, he blew SEVERAL opportunities. One of them in July, prior to 911. The Guardian and the French newspaper Le Figaro reported that bin Laden received dialysis treatment for a period of some 10 days at the American hospital in Dubai, and while there, he was visited by a local CIA agent. It was also about this time that U.S. State Department officials were threatening Afghanistan with carpet bombing if the Taliban didn't come to terms on the proposed Unocal pipeline across Afghanistan.

Bush had other opportunities to seize bin Laden but didn't. See: Alexander Cockburn: Bush was offered bin Laden and Blew It.
* Keep in mind, when the CIA was reported to have visited bin Laden in Dubai, 911 had not happened. But, already the Bush State Department was spoiling for a war. All it needed was a pretext that the gullible American public would buy! It got it —conveniently —on 911!

[AnarchoFreeThinker]

34. don't get sucked in. this is all about "hey, quick, look over there!"

diversion diversion diversion...another lame attempt to get one clear newsday before the shoe drops

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

35. And how do I know you're...

...not just trying to distract me with that suspended donkey? That really is a great picture.

Seriously, you might be right about the motivation for this story, but I think important, unanswered questions should be pursued and there is much left to be answered about Flt. 77.

[idgiehkt]

37. right about the donkey...everytime I see it I lose my thought process...

but that rationalization about the removed film was astounding.

I guess we are all about to be blinded if this is how they are going to quell conspiracy theories...

[Tin Man]

39. The Pentagon was struck by an airliner - plenty of witnesses

Before everyone invests hours in reviewing some grainy video, take a minute to do some auxillary research - like reading the accounts of witnesses to the crash. Read their testimonies and it should become quite clear that an airliner flew into the Pentagon on 9-11.

"On a Metro train to National Airport, Allen Cleveland looked out the window to see a jet heading down toward the Pentagon. 'I thought, "There's no landing strip on that side of the subway tracks,"' he said. Before he could process that thought, he saw 'a huge mushroom cloud. The lady next to me was in absolute hysterics.'"
- "Our Plane Is Being Hijacked." Washington Post, 12 Sep 2001

"Frank Probst, an information management specialist for the Pentagon Renovation Program, left his office trailer near the Pentagon's south parking lot at 9:36 a.m. Sept. 11. Walking north beside Route 27, he suddenly saw a commercial airliner crest the hilltop Navy Annex. American Airlines Flight 77 reached him so fast and flew so low that Probst dropped to the ground, fearing he'd lose his head to its right engine."
- "A Defiant Recovery." The Retired Officer Magazine, January 2002

"USAToday.com Editor Joel Sucherman saw it all: an American Airlines jetliner fly left to right across his field of vision as he commuted to work Tuesday morning. It was highly unusual. The large plane was 20 feet off the ground and a mere 50 to 75 yards from his windshield. Two seconds later and before he could see if the landing gear was down or any of the horror-struck faces inside, the plane slammed into the west wall of the Pentagon 100 yards away. 'My first thought was he's not going to make it across the river to National Airport. But whoever was flying the plane made no attempt to change direction,' Sucherman said. 'It was coming in at a high rate of speed, but not at a steep angle—almost like a heat-seeking missile was locked onto its target and staying dead on course.'"
- "Journalist Witnesses Pentagon Crash." eWeek.com, 13 Sep 2001

more accounts and links at: http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/blflight77w.htm

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

40. I don't dismiss eye witness...

...testimony, nor do I claim Flt 77 isn't what crashed into the Pentagon, but there are still many questions that have not been properly addressed---apparently small size of the impact damage, lack of wreckage, lack of post crash video, lack of air protection of such an important government building, etc.

Raising questions and pressing for the full truth and the complete story should not be equated with offering unsupported alternative theories and explanations. That's what MSM does to relieve themselves of the responsibility to do their jobs.

[ladjf]

56. Don't forget about the military "hercules" aircraft that witnessed

both the Pentagon crash and the Pennsylvania crash. That's a wild coincidence.

[aasleka]

41. Frames removed

They removed the frames that would have shown a shadow on the grass as the object passed.

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

43. Interesting. Can you elaborate? Where did...

...you come across this?

[the other one]

50. Warren Commission had "witnessess" too..

Just sayin, is all.

In fact, the conclusion of the Warren Commission was that witnesses are fallible, as evidenced by the large number of people who reported shots coming from the Grassy Knoll.

[LibDemAlways]

113. On the 20th anniverary of the Kennedy assassination

one of the cable channels ran the NBC network tape from Nov. 22, 1963 - the events just as they unfolded. I taped the entire program. Several people who were watching the motorcade were interviewed that afternoon on the scene and all pointed to the famous grassy knoll as the source of at least some of the shots they heard. They were all very sure. I take them at their word. They had no reason to lie.

[Name removed]

118. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Old and In the Way]

162. Don't forget all the witnesses who heard explosions at the WTC.

Were they reliable?

BTW, like your 'skull and roses'logo....I still have the original T-shirt print from 72....a treasured heirloom. :-)

[treestar]

125. Eyewitnesses are so unreliable, especially under the emotion of

post 911 - that a film would be more convincing. Like DNA or other forensic evidence is generally considered more reliable now than eyewitness testimony.

No one could have been just watching a plane flying along and right into the Pentagon. It would have to have been a blur. No one would "see" it until after the crash - the noise is what would draw your attention to it. The jet engines could be heard, but the plane would be moving so fast it wouldn't be more than a blur.

[Old and In the Way]

161. 100 yards in 2 seconds? Closer to .5 seconds.

"The large plane was 20 feet off the ground and a mere 50 to 75 yards from his windshield. Two seconds later and before he could see if the landing gear was down or any of the horror-struck faces inside, the plane slammed into the west wall of the Pentagon 100 yards away."

We are told it was traveling 450MPH when it struck. If so, it was moving at 660 feet/220 yards per second. It'd been closer to .5 seconds. Doubtful that it would register what he actually saw. If it were flying at 225 MPH, that's a lot slower than we are assuming. And it would be difficult to believe if the plane has just dropped 7000' feet at cruisng speed.

[Name removed]

42. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[onehandle]

47. Don't go there.

Many of the Flight 77 skeptics don't believe that airliners hit the WTC. And the ones who do, think that they were remotely controlled.

:crazy:

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

49. Again, this thread has...

...been a lot more questioning than positing alternative theories. Are we asking questions you don't want discussed? Are these things we shouldn't inquire about for fear of what names or labels others might attach to us?

[IselaB]

52. And what did I do?

I asked some questions, too. Am I asking questions YOU don't want discussed? Are they things I shouldn't inquire about for fear I'll make you defensive?

I don't know why they don't want to show every frame. Maybe because it would reveal something about Pentagon defenses. Maybe there was something that happened there in the last seconds designed to stop an incoming projectile.

Or maybe they'd like us all to talk about this instead of lobbyists, whores, Plame, Iraq, or how disappointed the right is with Bush's speech last night.

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

66. Well, the first thing you did...

...was make it a point to call us all lunatics.

Then you proceeded to attempt to punch holes, through a line of inquisition, in conspiracy theories, none of which were offered here---same tactic MSM uses.

Your questions are valid, I don't have answers for them, nor did I posit the theories or alternative explanations they're aimed at. This thread has, by and large, only raised questions, not asserted alternatives. What part of this are you not understanding?

[IselaB]

74. The part you're missing is that I'm only raising questions too

Just not the questions you wanted to discuss. One of the questions was whether you people are a bunch of lunatics. I think it's a fair question.

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

80. I don't mind discussing them...

...but you don't pose them with serious discussion in mind, you pose them as an attack on conspiracy theories that were not put forward here, as a means of inhibiting people from raising questions about Flt 77.

Your questions belong on threads that do promote the CT theories they're aimed at, and as I've already said, I don't know the answers to them.

[sendero]

97. Of course there are some lunatics here..

.. but then anyone who believes the official story on the events of September 11, 2001 is a drooling moron.

The government did not go so far out of its way to ignore the evidence that something was about to happen, and then so effectively hide every piece of relevant evidence after the fact (black boxes, video, debris, you name it), if the story was the cut and dried "19 hijackers mounted an attack" we are told it was.

[Grateful for Hope]

185. LOL!

".. but then anyone who believes the official story on the events of September 11, 2001 is a drooling moron."

I think I would characterize anyone who buys the official story hook, line, and sinker as someone who may be a bit naive.

Your characterization made me laugh! I needed this today.


:rofl:

[Old and In the Way]

163. "Maybe because it would reveal something about Pentagon defenses."

The defenses that worked so well on 9/11? Or the $400BB/year airforce that was a no show over Washington, 90 minutes after the 1st hi-jacking was known?

"Or maybe they'd like us all to talk about this instead of lobbyists, whores, Plame, Iraq, or how disappointed the right is with Bush's speech last night."

Or maybe they don't want us to continue asking questions about 9/11 because the root of all evil actions emenating from this administration and its justification for same is rooted in what happened on that day.

Who's stopping you from talking about all of the other things? Most of us here can discuss a wide range of topics and have been doing so for years. Maybe we don't think we know the truth about happened on 9/11 and there are 3000 people who died that day who have not had justice served by those who could have prevented it....or may have lent a hand it making it happen.

[the other one]

51. No discernible motive obviates facts.

Brilliant Logic.

I don't know why they did it, therefore they didn't.

I don't know what happened to the real flight 77, therefore the gov't is telling the truth.

You don't know my age, therefore my true age is whatever I say it is.

And so on...

[IselaB]

57. Ask any policeman or detective

And he'll tell you motive is an important part of any investigation.

And my logic is somehow more faulty than your inference that since some frames were taken out of this video that means Bush's Dark Wizard of Black Magic made a plane-load of people vanish into thin air so we could shoot a missile at the Pentagon FOR NO REASON AT ALL.

That's brilliant.

[the other one]

65. Motive is not important if you have physical evidence.

Motive is not necessary with a preponderance of evidence. A store video of a shoplifter is evidence enough. It doesn't matter WHY they stole, they committed a crime.

If the official story is a hoax, it makes sense to examine those who perpertrated the hoax. Any good detective would tell you that.

Does the evidence suggest that the official story is a hoax, or not?

[IselaB]

76. What physical evidence?

I'm not aware of any physical evidence except a big freaking hole in the Pentagon. Then there's a bunch of eye-witness accounts and what I guess we'd have to call circumstantial evidence, like the fact some crazy people were flying airplanes into buildings that day. Kind of a big coincidence that the neocons or Karl Rove or whoever would choose that exact time to fire a missile at the Pentagon, and that aliens would zap an airliner with a tractor beam and pull it aboard their ship and abduct all the passengers.

But I guess it's possible. I suppose I should try to respect that.

[Old and In the Way]

164. Motive? Google "A New Pearl Harbor"

They've taken a $400BB surplus and converted it into a $500BB deficit. They have accomplished the most mind numbing act of criminal war profiteering that was justified because of 9/11. They used 9/11 to get the Patriot Act rammed down our throat and consolidate power under the guise that "9/11 changed everything".

Who benefited? Follow the money.

[Name removed]

54. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[IselaB]

59. Sweetheart

I have the right to call anybody a lunatic I like. Especially crazy people.

But thanks for playing.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

68. Well If So,

Than I hope the mods find it equally as my right to respond to that post with a Go Fuck Yourself LOL

[IselaB]

78. ...

:D

[hootinholler]

98. I concur.

-Hoot

[lpbk2713]

46. Blitzer is the ultimate talking head.

He has found his niche. He is likely to have a very long career at CNN.

[flyarm]

55. i call him nazi whore! n/t

[Hubert Flottz]

77. I believe Wolfgag is a Nazi too.

I don't trust him...

[ronnykmarshall]

58. Is there a link to the video?

I heard Ed Schultz talking about this today.

[rman]

150. here

video 1
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5658198482624505213&q=pentagon+crash

video 2
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5415578059017835301&q=pentagon+crash

[darkism]

63. All this MIHOP and 9/11 conspiracy business gives DU a bad image

I'm with onehandle - the question shouldn't be "what destroyed those buildings?" because it was undoubtedly airplanes. The question shouldn't be "who was piloting the planes" because it was undoubtedly al-Qaeda guys.

The question SHOULD be "WHY was something of this magnitude ALLOWED to happen?" I mean c'mon, how freaking incompetent do you have to be to fail to prevent something that huge?

BushCo didn't ORDER 9/11, but they certainly allowed it to happen. Probably inadvertently through incompetence, but perhaps purposely.

Suggesting that these weren't planes just makes us look like - as the freepers like to say - "moonbats." Sorry, but it's true.

EDIT: And why is the corporate media calling this tape today "never before seen?" I saw it on one of those nutty MIHOP sites years ago.

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

75. Did you even read the OP?

Or perhaps inadvertantly respond to the wrong thread? I don't see how your remarks relate to anything I've posted.

[shadowknows69]

83. and my grandmother used to tell me

that only the evil soviets and chinese spied on their own people, or tortured prisoners, or started illegal wars of conquest, etc etc etc.

[Usrename]

95. Are you aware that the people convicted in Iran/Contra are back?

That's right, felons convicted for conspiracy and pardoned under Poppy are working in this White House. And it is somehow nutty to suspect them of anything dishonest.

Buy a clue.

[neebob]

167. I keep thinking I've seen the tape, too -

same angle, parking lot gate, white blur, fireball. I've seen it before, months if not years ago - though I couldn't say where.

[Cleita]

93. Well, that certainly stopped any conspiracy theories, didn't it?

:tinfoilhat:

[Emit]

100. lol. n/t

[Eric J in MN]

96. Nothing like a doctored tape to make everyone feel good. (nt)

nt

[Blue_Tires]

106. you sound like one of those 'america haterz!!!"

:sarcasm:

[corbett]

108. He's Right! View The Truth Here

Let CNN take the $1,000,000 challenge!

www.reopen911.org

[Generator]

110. Wow

The Pentagon plane is way down on my list of unanswered questions about 9/11. (there are so many) So much so that I just realized that it never crashed at all! But this video looks like the same old same old THOUGH for the last five years all I've heard is a plane crashing into the Pentagon-when what actually happened is it LANDED then plowed into the building. That seems significant somehow. It didn't crash at all. It drove into the Pentagon. What a wacky world.

[NJ_Lib]

116. No, even better, it didn't land yet, it was just...

...flying twenty feet off the ground at 525mph, until it met it's target... This one in a million trick was pulled off by young and inexperienced pilots who were only partially trained...

Ok...

If anybody is buying this, fine, but I'm not... Ask any pilot you know, espcially the more seasoned ones, if they could pull this off...

[Kablooie]

111. If the Govt said they pulled some frames, they have a reason for saying it

It obviously kicks up the conspiracy angle so this is what they want.
Why would they WANT to fuel the conspiracy?

To distract from something else?
To make left wingers look like foil hat crazies?

No matter what there IS a reason. Bush co WANTS the conspiracy brought out!

If we do push it, we play into their hands.
Be careful what you get angry about folks. Some things may be traps.

[genieroze]

112. Something = missile Check this out

http://www.freedomunderground.org/memoryhole/pentagon.php

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

115. Before this gets locked or lost... Where did the people

on that flight go then?

[NJ_Lib]

117. Why is it that Barbara Olson is the only...

... passanger we've really heard about... I could name twenty souls off the top of my head from each of the other flights and probably recognize most of the others on paper... Why is it that flight 77 never told the stories of it's passangers, like the other flights? Were they not as important?

Why is it that we were only told of Barbara Olson?

[ScreamingMeemie]

119. I remember the students being on the trip for National Geographic...

I remember the stewardess with decades of service, who was like a mother to many of the crew. The media chose to focus on the phone call from Barbara, but there was a heartwrenching memorial to the students, their teachers, the crew, the man who was on his way to propose.

[NJ_Lib]

121. Yes, I do remember the students who went on the trip...

... and I did go over the passanger list carefully and read their stories but why is it that only Barbara's story got out there...? What, nobody else called their loved-ones on flight 77? Compared with the other 911 flights, there is hardly any information at all... I'm not saying it didn't happen, but I think there's more to the story...

Like I tell my kid, when you lie, it's hard for people to distinguish when you're telling the truth...

When your government has a track record of lying about everything, it just makes you suspicious about everything else...

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

122. I don't know

because her husband is a high-level governement type?

[grasswire]

145. because it was the alleged Olson phone call...

...that established the idea that the hijackers were Middle Eastern, if I remember correctly.

Also, there was some discrepancy between what Theodore Olson reported and what could have been possible. I can't remember the contradiction, but it was something about the phone call Barbara was alleged to have made.

[paulk]

146. here's the list

AMERICAN AIRLINES FLIGHT 77
American Airlines Flight 77, from Washington to Los Angeles, crashed into the Pentagon with 64 people aboard.




CREW

Charles Burlingame of Herndon, Virginia, was the plane's captain. He is survived by a wife, a daughter and a grandson. He had more than 20 years of experience flying with American Airlines and was a former U.S. Navy pilot.

David Charlebois, who lived in Washington's Dupont Circle neighborhood, was the first officer on the flight. "He was handsome and happy and very centered," his neighbor Travis White, told The Washington Post. "His life was the kind of life I wanted to have some day."

Michele Heidenberger of Chevy Chase, Maryland, was a flight attendant for 30 years. She left behind a husband, a pilot, and a daughter and son.

Flight attendant Jennifer Lewis, 38, of Culpeper, Virginia, was the wife of flight attendant Kenneth Lewis.

Flight attendant Kenneth Lewis, 49, of Culpeper, Virginia, was the husband of flight attendant Jennifer Lewis.

Renee May, 39, of Baltimore, Maryland, was a flight attendant.





PASSENGERS

Paul Ambrose, 32, of Washington, was a physician who worked with the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services and the surgeon general to address racial and ethnic disparities in health. A 1995 graduate of Marshall University School of Medicine, Ambrose last year was named the Luther Terry Fellow of the Association of Teachers of Preventative Medicine.

Yeneneh Betru, 35, was from Burbank, California.

M.J. Booth

Bernard Brown, 11, was a student at Leckie Elementary School in Washington. He was embarking on an educational trip to the Channel Islands National Marine Sanctuary near Santa Barbara, California, as part of a program funded by the National Geographic Society.

Suzanne Calley, 42, of San Martin, California, was an employee of Cisco Systems Inc.

William Caswell

Sarah Clark, 65, of Columbia, Maryland, was a sixth-grade teacher at Backus Middle School in Washington. She was accompanying a student on an educational trip to the Channel Islands National Marine Sanctuary near Santa Barbara, California, as part of a program funded by the National Geographic Society.

Asia Cottom, 11, was a student at Backus Middle School in Washington. Asia was embarking on an educational trip to the Channel Islands National Marine Sanctuary near Santa Barbara, California, as part of a program funded by the National Geographic Society.

James Debeuneure, 58, of Upper Marlboro, Maryland, was a fifth-grade teacher at Ketcham Elementary School in Washington. He was accompanying a student on an educational trip to the Channel Islands National Marine Sanctuary near Santa Barbara, California, as part of a program funded by the National Geographic Society.

Rodney Dickens, 11, was a student at Leckie Elementary School in Washington. He was embarking on an educational trip to the Channel Islands National Marine Sanctuary near Santa Barbara, California, as part of a program funded by the National Geographic Society.

Eddie Dillard

Charles Droz

Barbara Edwards, 58, of Las Vegas, Nevada, was a teacher at Palo Verde High School in Las Vegas.

Charles S. Falkenberg, 45, of University Park, Maryland, was the director of research at ECOlogic Corp., a software engineering firm. He worked on data systems for NASA and also developed data systems for the study of global and regional environmental issues. Falkenburg was traveling with his wife, Leslie Whittingham, and their two daughters, Zoe, 8, and Dana, 3.

Zoe Falkenberg, 8, of University Park, Maryland, was the daughter of Charles Falkenberg and Leslie Whittingham.

Dana Falkenberg, 3, of University Park, Maryland, was the daughter of Charles Falkenberg and Leslie Whittingham.

Joe Ferguson was the director of the National Geographic Society's geography education outreach program in Washington. He was accompanying a group of students and teachers on an educational trip to the Channel Islands in California. A Mississippi native, he joined the society in 1987. "Joe Feguson's final hours at the Geographic reveal the depth of his commitment to one of the things he really loved," said John Fahey Jr., the society's president. "Joe was here at the office until late Monday evening preparing for this trip. It was his goal to make this trip perfect in every way."

Wilson "Bud" Flagg of Millwood, Virginia, was a retired Navy admiral and retired American Airlines pilot.

Dee Flagg

Richard Gabriel

Ian Gray, 55, of Washington was the president of a health-care consulting firm.

Stanley Hall, 68, was from Rancho Palos Verdes, California.

Bryan Jack, 48, of Alexandria, Virginia, was a senior executive at the Defense Department.

Steven D. "Jake" Jacoby, 43, of Alexandria, Virginia, was the chief operating officer of Metrocall Inc., a wireless data and messaging company.

Ann Judge, 49, of Virginia was the travel office manager for the National Geographic Society. She was accompanying a group of students and teachers on an educational trip to the Channel Islands in California. Society President John Fahey Jr. said one of his fondest memories of Judge is a voice mail she and a colleague once left him while they were rafting the Monkey River in Belize. "This was quintessential Ann -- living life to the fullest and wanting to share it with others," he said.

Chandler Keller, 29, was a Boeing propulsion engineer from El Segundo, California.

Yvonne Kennedy

Norma Khan, 45, from Reston, Virginia was a nonprofit organization manager.

Karen A. Kincaid, 40, was a lawyer with the Washington firm of Wiley Rein & Fielding. She joined the firm in 1993 and was part of the its telecommunications practice. She was married to Peter Batacan.

Norma Langsteuerle

Dong Lee

Dora Menchaca, 45, of Santa Monica, California, was the associate director of clinical research for a biotech firm.

Christopher Newton, 38, of Anaheim, California, was president and chief executive officer of Work-Life Benefits, a consultation and referral service. He was married and had two children. Newton was on his way back to Orange County to retrieve his family's yellow Labrador, who had been left behind until they could settle into their new home in Arlington, Virginia.

Barbara Olson, 45, was a conservative commentator who often appeared on CNN and was married to U.S. Solicitor General Theodore Olson. She twice called her husband as the plane was being hijacked and described some details, including that the attackers were armed with knives. She had planned to take a different flight, but she changed it at the last minute so that she could be with her husband on his birthday. She worked as an investigator for the House Government Reform Committee in the mid-1990s and later worked on the staff of Senate Minority Whip Don Nickles.

Ruben Ornedo, 39, of Los Angeles, California, was a Boeing propulsion engineer.

Robert Penniger, 63, of Poway, California, was an electrical engineer with BAE Systems.

Lisa Raines, 42, was senior vice president for government relations at the Washington office of Genzyme, a biotechnology firm. She was from Great Falls, Virginia, and was married to Stephen Push. She worked with the U.S. Food and Drug Administration on developing a new policy governing cellular therapies, announced in 1997. She also worked on other major health-care legislation.

Todd Reuben, 40, of Potomac, Maryland, was a tax and business lawyer.

John Sammartino

Diane Simmons

George Simmons

Mari-Rae Sopper of Santa Barbara, California, was a women's gymnastics coach at the University of California at Santa Barbara. She had just gotten the post August 31 and was making the trip to California to start work.

Bob Speisman, 47, was from Irvington, New York.

Hilda Taylor was a sixth-grade teacher at Leckie Elementary School in Washington. She was accompanying a student on an educational trip to the Channel Islands National Marine Sanctuary near Santa Barbara, California, as part of a program funded by the National Geographic Society.

Leonard Taylor was from Reston, Virginia.

Leslie A. Whittington, 45, was from University Park, Maryland. The professor of public policy at Georgetown University in Washington was traveling with her husband, Charles Falkenberg, 45, and their two daughters, Zoe, 8, and Dana, 3. They were traveling to Los Angeles to catch a connection to Australia. Whittington had been named a visiting fellow at Australian National University in Canberra.

John Yamnicky, 71, was from Waldorf, Maryland.

Vicki Yancey

Shuyin Yang

Yuguag Zheng

[theboss]

126. Why can no one answer: Where did the bodies come from?

All the passengers' bodies were at the Pentagon. They have been identified.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&node=&contentId=A61202-2001Nov20

[NJ_Lib]

130. Wait just a minute here... Someone explain this one to me...

... It's possible to have human remains, but nothing left of a 757...?

And it's possible for a young, inexperienced, partially-trained pilot to fly a jet twenty feet off the ground at 525mph?

I'm not saying anything, I'm just asking...

[paulk]

147. there was plenty left of the 757

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/pages/911_pentagon_757_plane_evidence.html

[goclark]

128. I'm still fuzzy about this whole thing, need help

I trust my government to always tell the truth about something as HUGE as a jet plane going into a building in broad daylight. :sarcasm:

Here is my stupid question for the day....

Let's say it was a missile that went into the building.

Where was the real plane?
Did it land some place else and everyone got off and moved to the Bahamas?

Didn't their families question what happened to them?
Not a piece of a tennis shoe or any other item was ever given back to the families?

Didn't people see that plane leave the airport?

I am serious,,,this is the only part that I can't wrap my head around --- what happened to the people and the plane? :crazy:

I am sincerely trying to figure this out and the more I see of CNN, the tighter my hat gets on my head.

Even Keith O showed the picture and just moved on to Brittany Spears and her baby in the back seat.

He did not question that photo and I was surprised.

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

129. I found this to be a compelling and very...

...disturbing presentation, others may not. It addresses at least some of your concerns, depending on how much credibility you give it. This stuff shakes me to the core, part of me would love to join the denial crowd and I don't begrudge them one bit---we all have to cope somehow.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8260059923762628848

[goclark]

131. Oh my God! I had not seen that one

My only question still is,were all the "passengers" on 9 11 in on the fix or what!

I can easily believe that Barbara Olson,good buddy of the NeoCons, would switch planes or whatever.

Did any cameras record the other passengers getting on the plane?

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

132. I don't know. nt.

[JPZenger]

133. Conspiracy Theorists Give Dems a Bad Name

The extreme conspiracy theorists give Democrats a bad name. If the plane didn't hit the Pentagon, then what happened to the people on board it?

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

136. I don't know. nt.

[rman]

141. Everyting short of acting like repubs gives us a bad name

So who still gives a damn?

[Hoping4Change]

149. What I think is unhelpful is using the term "conspiracy theorist"

which summons up the notion of kooky. Given the number of glaring oddities the official version does not address, it is prudent to question the official version. Questioning authority does not make one a conspiracy theorist.

[Old and In the Way]

165. You do realize that the Ofiicial Story is based on a conspiracy of 19

Middle Eastarn men who somehow managed to evade the combined assets of the CIA/FBI and airport security to commandeer 4 planes. And our $400BB/year military was unable to react with a 90 minute's "heads up". Think about what you need to believe in order for the Official Story to be true.

I have no idea whether the 757 crashed into the Pentagon or not. Maybe it did, maybe it didn't. The physical evidence I've seen to date is not conclusive to believe beyond a reasonable doubt. I think that is where most of the people here are with it.

[rman]

140. Far more compelling (seriously) :

Everybody's Gotta Learn Sometime
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8372366181300641663&q=Everybody%27s+Gotta+Learn+Sometime

[rman]

139. we've been discussing these issues for years

in the 9-11 forum
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=125

[BuyingThyme]

142. They are doing this on purpose. MIHOP is real, but the

Pentagon (missile) angle is not.

These people understand that if you concentrate on the bogus elements of the conspiracy, people will be more likely to dismiss the legitimate elements of the conspiracy.

[dabluz]

143. Nice cut & paste job

http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/may2006/170506reallylook.htm

[BrklynLiberal]

154. Wow! Shows how doctoring can be done.

[SmokingJacket]

144. I'm very much a tinfoil-hatter, BUT...

I do think the timing of the release of this doctored video, plus Leslie's bizarre remarks, serve no purpose other than to distract and divide.

[BrklynLiberal]

155. Exactly right. Do not look behind that curtain!!!

[Marie26]

148. email that to Jack Cafferty.

Maybe he'll bring it up.

[KJF]

151. Maybe you heard this:

JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SENIOR PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: ...

The videos are essentially a more complete version of five still frames that CNN obtained back in 2002 from a Pentagon security camera that shows the only images seen so far of American Airlines flight 77 crashing into the side of the Pentagon. The problem with the original video was that it was only a single frame that showed the plane, and it was so indistinct that it helped fuel conspiracy theories on the Internet and around the world, questioning whether something else hit the Pentagon, like for instance, a cruise missile. Of course, Wolf, that's nonsense, given all the evidence we have about what really happened on September 11. But nevertheless, the fact that the government held onto these videotapes helped fuel the conspiracy theory.
http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0605/16/sitroom.01.html

[savemefromdumbya]

156. some frames must have been missing or that white thing on the right

....must have shot something into the Pent wall?

[Duer 157099]

157. why do you say that?

[savemefromdumbya]

166. either

that 'thing' on the right fired something into the wall or there must be frames missing

[rman]

170. By releasing this video they shot themselves in the foot

All it seems to do is make more people suspicious of the official story.

[mother earth]

181. I agree, if this was the best they could do, it just speaks VOLUMES!

[Grateful for Hope]

182. Pretty incredible

I would also say.