If you think about it the death and destruction of 9-11 was rather minor

[Hoping4Change]

though very dramatic.

One reason I have always sat on the fence regarding MITOP and LIHOP (though I don't for an instance buy the OT)is that it has always seemed unthinkable that any American would be in anyway involved with the 9-11 attacks.

However as I read posts on this Memorial Day it occurs to me that the destruction and death on 9-11 is relatively minor compared to the number of Americans dead and wounded in the "war of terra", (not to mention the number of Iraqi dead),and the trillon dollar cost of this war.

It also occurs to me that the massive destruction of the environment, the assault on the Constitution, the draining of the treasury, the assault on social and consumers protection programs (the list is endless) are just as incomprehensible as what happened of 9-11 but these assaults on Americans aren't as easy to process as the attacks of 9-11.

America was under attack before 9-11 and remains in danger and the enemy is within its borders. Why then is it such a stretch to contemplate that those responsible for massive destruction of the environment, the assault on the Constitution, the draining of the treasury, the assault on social and consumers protection programs are not in some way involved with 9-11?

[Sinti]

1. It's shocking how very little respect for human life some folks have

ain't it. :cry:

If the Hopi prophesies are true, this way of thinking will pass into history around 2012, and a new way will take its place. I hope they're right, but my faith is pretty shaken.

[mirandapriestly]

4. what will we do until then?

:scared:

[Sinti]

14. I guess you do the very best you can in your personal life

Try to be mindful, and respectful, and believe that human beings over millennia do improve, i.e., become more considerate of their fellow man. :shrug:

[libhill]

17. I hope they're right too

but I'm not taking bets. This is a very sick society we live in.

[StealthyDragon]

2. It's even possible........

that the overall numbers were exaggerated on purpose. (if one believes 9/11 was an inside job)

A thousand missing bodies due to gavity collapses does seem odd?

But then again.......so does the size of the passenger lists.

[pauldp]

3. One reason Noam Chomsky claims he is not interested in 911

investigation is the fact that we already know they have done
worse than kill 3,000 people on 911. They've killed tens of thousands in Iraq
(I've heard it could be as high as 100,00o or more) not to mention we
are now close to as many dead american soldiers as were killed on 911.
Plus Katrina, Afghan heroin trade is booming, the environment continues to be raped
at greater increasing speed, our civil liberties are being stripped away etc. etc.
Chomsky's is an interesting argument - we can prove they've done worse so why focus on 911? However, almost all of the horrible things they have done have been done using 911 as the justification. I think the 911 cover up needs to be exposed in order for people to understand just how bad things have festered.

[mirandapriestly]

5. exactly, 911 has been used as the excuse

for almost all of the lousy stuff they've done since then, without it most of this would not have come to pass, 911 and election fraud - those are the two issues of importance; without them everything would be different, so his argument is really sort of ....dumb.

[Hoping4Change]

8. I too think its dumb. I don't understand why he doesn't at least say

he has serious reserves about the thoroughness of the investigations.

[Jazz2006]

22. Chomsky did opine on 9/11 conspiracy theories, actually.....

He made himself quite clear on the 9/11 conspiracy theories when asked whether he thought the gov't had foreknowledge and he said "that's an internet conspiracy and it's hopelessly implausible. Hopelessly implausible. So hopelessly implausible that I don't see any point in talking about it."

[Hoping4Change]

7. I am forever puzzled why Chomsky doesn't at least

comment on even some of the the really troubling questions surroundng 9-11.

[pauldp]

13. Intelligent liberals suffering from cognitive dissonance

are unwittingly enabling the criminals. It's a damn shame.

[Jazz2006]

23. He did.

See #22.

When asked about about whether he thought the gov't had foreknowledge and he said "that's an internet conspiracy and it's hopelessly implausible. Hopelessly implausible. So hopelessly implausible that I don't see any point in talking about it."

[Old and In the Way]

6. If people will kill another human being for a few bucks.

What would a group of criminals be willing to do for trillions and unlimited power?

[Hoping4Change]

11. For some reason that has taken me a long time to accept.

There are lots of Americans who are willing to destroy their fellow citizens ie Lay etc.

[JackRiddler]

9. The point about 9/11

is not simply the human cost (which is the equivalent of a medium earthquake disaster, but should not be dismissed by that equivalence, since grief festers in the absence of an explanation, and since the trauma in this case directly hit hundreds of millions of people live via TV).

The point about 9/11 is it is used to define reality. It is a psychological operation, even if you don't believe it was an inside job. It is what the mobsters used to get their way on anything they did not yet have their way on.

[Hoping4Change]

10. I don't wish to minimize the suffering 911 caused however the

emotional trauma caused by the absence of an explanation is as great if not greater for Katrina victims; and like 911, millions of viewers witnessed the tragegy in the New Orleans unfold. Why is 911 worse? In some ways comfort can be taken by the families that it was perpetrated by foreigners, Katrina don't have that comfort - their grief and loss was enabled by an their uncaring government.

[JackRiddler]

12. 9/11 is worse

Because it led directly to Afghanistan, Iraq, USA PATRIOT Act, Homeland Security, the activation of the Shadow Government, the color-coded terror system, justifications for TIA, P20G, NSA spying, the burying of the "missing 2.3 trillion" scandal, the permanent use of fear, Bush "winning" in 2004, and much, much more.

Questions?

[greyl]

20. So, where do I, as someone who loathes religious fundamentalism

and the arrogance of our culture fit in?

Don't answer that - I'll tell you.
Both of those sides are full of shit, and they only thwart the evolution of humanity.
We shouldn't be left with the paltry choice of taking sides between "Christian" oiligarchy and other religious fundamentalists because there is no ultimate difference between them.
Bush's fundamentalism and Ossama's are the same, they just have different territorial interests.

[JackRiddler]

21. It's easy to agree with your statements

and I do! (Though I see an alliance within each fundamentalism of those who actually believe in it and those who instrumentalize it for gain - hard to say who is worse.)

I just don't understand in what way this is a response to my post, although that's where you put it.

[HamdenRice]

15. Katrina response is the key to understanding what Bush is capable of

Before Katrina, this was a common response to LIHOP/MIHOP: No president, even Bush, would participate in the murder of 3000 Americans even for the goal of implementing a permanent war society, seizing foreign oil fields and achieving their international goals.

But then we saw the Bush administration allow 4,500 people to die essentially so that Bush could continue his vacation. If he would allow 4,500 to die so he could ride his bicycle at the Crawford pig farm, play guitar and eat cake, it is not a stretch to believe he could kill 3000 people in order to implement a war on terror society.

NB: And I do place the blame of 2,500 dead and 2,000 missing and presumed dead, after Katrina on the administration. During the Johnson administration, NO flooded, and the death toll was in the 150 persons range, because Johnson had aid in the region by the afternoon of the flood. By contrast, a doctor I know, a pathologist, told me that in her opinion, the vast majority of people who died in NO died not from the flood, but from hunger, thirst, drowning during attempted self evacuation, exposure to sewage and the elements, lack of medicine, etc in the week that it took for Bush's aids to get the courage to show him news footage and get his sorry ass back to Washington and begin relief operations.

[Jara sang]

16. The fact that 9/11 was televised speaks volumes.

They needed that. Look at Katrina 1889+ deaths but they were scattered and localized and nobody dying live on television. They needed the cameras rolling on 9/11 to justify what they were going to do in it's name. Almost as if the whole thing was staged...

[libhill]

18. A lot of it does -

seem like a nightmarish movie script. I never did buy into "the heroes of flight 93" bull shit.

[greyl]

19. I waited long enough.

Anyone who thinks "the death and destruction of 9-11 was rather minor" is seriously deluded.
This thread disgusts me.

[rman]

24. Anyone who thinks the death and destruction of 9-11

is more severe than the death and destruction in Iraq is seriously biased.

[greyl]

25. I agree.

The headline would be better if it used "relatively minor" instead of "rather minor".

(fyi, I'm pretty sure the OP was obliquely referring to the recent ct notion that al queda had nothing to do with the attacks because there wasn't enough loss of life)