A Bold Move Toward Dictatorship Is Afoot.

[jayfish]

I wondered how long it would take for them to go for it but they are about to make their move. Tonight on Hardball, Congressman David Dryer(R) advocated the passage of an amendment to the Constitution Of The United States that would allow foreign-born citizens (See: Arnold Schwarzenegger) to hold the office of President. While this is bad enough in and of itself, the real terror is what he is tying said amendment too... the repeal of the 22nd amendment to the Constitution. The 22nd Amendment states:

Amendment XXII

Section 1. No person shall be elected to the office of the President more than twice, and no person who has held the office of President, or acted as President, for more than two years of a term to which some other person was elected President shall be elected to the office of the President more than once. But this article shall not apply to any person holding the office of President when this article was proposed by the Congress, and shall not prevent any person who may be holding the office of President, or acting as President, during the term within which this article becomes operative from holding the office of President or acting as President during the remainder of such term.


Section 2. This article shall be inoperative unless it shall have been ratified as an amendment to the Constitution by the legislatures of three-fourths of the several states within seven years from the date of its submission to the states by the Congress.


If John Kerry does not win the election, Dubya will be President forever. With Bush re-installed, a Republican Congress, BBV and the possibility of several Supreme Court appointments, Democracy in America will be in some real trouble.
We on the verge of a Bush Dictatorship that stretches as far as the eye can see.


Jay


EDITED FOR CLARITY

[ender]

1. no foreign born citizens...

was put in to keep alexander hamilton out of the presidency. no other reason.

seriously - hamilton was a smart, but unliked prick. nobody wanted him to have a shot at it.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

4. he'd have made a better president than arnold...

[jayfish]

7. The Point Is That They Want To...

allow * to be the President FOREVER! The proposed amendment is, by far, secondary concern. Sorry if I wasn't clear enough.

Jay

[Tamyrlin79]

11. Maybe so, but...

I still like having it in there b/c consider the possibility of a foreign power organizing a covert agent to gain citizenship and then have them live here a decade and then run for president. If they won, we would basically be electing a puppet government without even realizing it. Likely? Maybe not, but not inconceivable either. At least this way, those governments have to go through the trouble of "flipping" an American citizen to gain that sort of influence.

[On the Road]

26. Oh, I Didn't Know it was Hamilton

I figured it had to do with British-born candidates, but thought it was a general sentiment against Tories.

[jayfish]

29. I haven't looked Into...

the history of that clause, but Tweety (I know, I know) suggested it was more about the history of non-British aristocrats controlling the crown in England. His opinion is worthless but his history is usually correct.

Jay

[necso]

2. Hey folks,

Arnie is never going to get the Republican nomination -- who is this really for?

[bahrbearian]

5. BFEE

[necso]

10. Actually,

I was thinking Murdock.

[liberal N proud]

43. Karl Rove?

[bahrbearian]

3. Thanks for the Heads Up

Good points to bring up in freeper rants.

[greekspeak]

6. And just think...the pukes put this in place in the first place

They have NO regard for the constitution. It is just a doormat. Don't like a democrat in office for 4 terms? Fix the constitution. Want a repuke in office for life? Fix your fix to the constitution. Don't like fags and dykes getting married? Fix the constitution. Want to have non-native born Americans in office? Fix the constitution. What do you think will happen after the first liberal non-native born president serves? Fix the fix again. And who will they blame the whole kit and caboodle on? The favorite scapegoats...THE DEMOCRATS!!

[jayfish]

13. Watch How Quickly They Change...

their tune with a Dem. in office.

Jay

[NinetySix]

8. The good thing is

If they repeal the 22nd amendment (I thought they were in FAVOR of term limits?!?), at least we can run Bill Clinton again. Imagine Clinton taking on Dubya....

[Annette]

25. I was thinking the same thing!!

[fearnobush]

9. I have heard him say this before. As I said before, if do this this,

then they have to dumb the college as well (Electoral College). When I was confronted by a Freeper about this, I asked him "Would you want George Soros with his 10 billion running for President too." The Freep cringed and said... I get your point.

<>

[zeemike]

12. My question would be

Do we have a deficit of native borne Americans that qualify for the presidency that we need to change the constituting?
This is an attempt to encourage Arnold and keep him in the republican camp.

[jayfish]

15. It's Not About Anuld...

it's framing that, proposed, amendment as a counter (a trade if you will) to repealing the 22nd. The real prize for the Thugs comes if Bush is President in January and has a Republican Congress and soon to be Conservative Supreme Court. Repealing the 22nd will crown him President for life. Anuld would never even come close to the office.

Jay

[zeemike]

16. You could be right

It is hard to figure the intent of someone that acts in a manipulative way because they hide it.
But never the less the strongest argument against it would be that it is not necessary to change it because there is no compelling reason to do so.

[jayfish]

21. He Was Very Particular About Hiding It Too...

he never mentioned what the 22nd says. I will post the transcript as soon as it is available.

Jay

[Skip Intro]

14. I wan't my representatives to ADHERE to the Constitution, not re-write it

I agree - the very fabric of America, the ideals of Freedom and Democracy - ideals of which it is this nations place to secure and protect; ideals that define us - will be trampled, kicked, and stomped to death by these maniacs.

If the slime retains control of our government, I believe I will stock up on canned goods, a short wave radio, and some other legal essentials, and find myself a nice cave somewhere in Montana. Or just go to Canada, and mourn the killing of my country..

[Triana]

17. Republicans: Now they want to outsource the Presidency, too...

...how convenient. I'm sure Salem binLaden would be first on the list.

[Zhade]

45. Kinda hard for Salem to run, since he died in a "mysterious" plane crash.

NT!

[Shopaholic]

18. We'll just run the Big Dog again

with Hillary as his VP candidate.

[archineas]

19. on the other hand

bill clinton would be able to run again, and i think bill would wipe the floor with shrubbie.

j

[liberal N proud]

44. If there was ever another election!

If shrub gets command of the office again, we will never get to vote again.
Dictatorship will be given to shrub. Run by Karl and Dick

[SpaceCatMeetsMars]

20. I was phone banking the other night and some nutcase actually

said to me, "I think they should get rid of that 'eight years' thing and let people have Bush for president as long as they want him." I hope that isn't a talking point they are feeding to them! I assumed at the time that the guy must have come up with that horrendous idea all by himself.

[MsTryska]

22. I'd like to see the repubs try to get the constitution amended....

all those gun-toting rednecks will be up in arms.

they don't want no "fur'ner" runnin' the US of A.


we should whip them into a fury by telling them that now some Frog can become our president. it's only a matter of time, before we're a commonwealth of those cheese-eating wine-drinking wussies who surrenedered in World War II.


get out the word, y'all.

[The Icon Painter]

23. First Time

The first time I can remember Congress suggesting that it might be prudent to allow a foreign born person to become President was just after the Six-Day War when all our local good ol' boys developed a passion for Moishe Dayan. They thought he would be the ideal man to lead this country because 'that ol' boy shore can fight like a summabitch!' Actually I really liked Dayan too and vastly preferred him to any of the Repugs then or since.

[CityHall]

24. Clinton

Clinton supported something like this, BTW, though he said he'd be willing to be exempt. He wanted to change the limit to two consecutive terms.

[jayfish]

27. Still Dangerous...

regardless of who supports it. Based on Clintons' proposal you could have Anuld elected in 08' followed by Bush again 12' for two more terms. Ugly, ugly stuff.

Jay

[Stephanie]

28. Wouldn't that require referendum by the states?

Congress can't accomplish that on their own.

[jayfish]

30. I Believe In Many, If Not Most States...

(someone correct me if I'm wrong) amendments can be ratified via the legislature without a public referendum.

Jay

[maine_raptor]

32. true, but on this one

there will be a HUGE fight.......This has become so in-grained into the Am political scene that it is almost up there with Mom, apple pie and the flag.

Think how you're typical red state voter views Iraqi casulaties...not much sympathy out there is there? Ok if they're not too concerned with "For-in-ers" when they get killed or maimed, we would you think they would be willing to turn control of AMERICA to a "For-in-er" now?

Beside, want a good argument against it (when talking to a freeper for it)....just say. "Oh so that would mean a French Citizen could become our President then?"

[jayfish]

33. See IMO The Real Target...

is the repeal of the 22nd. They will use the creation of a foreign-born citizen amendment as a trade-off for repealing the 22nd. They know that Dem's, would love to see the Big Dawg back in office and would play that angle up big-time. By the time both are in place BBV would have a firm grip and Clinton wouldn't stand a chance.

Jay

[maine_raptor]

35. Ah the Old 22nd!!!!!

You realize that the 22nd waas pu in place by a Repug Congress in response to FDR? Then after Ike was closing out his 2nd term, all the Repugs around the country had a "Doh" moment.

Same thing after Ronnie's 2nd election...."damm we were stupid".

But it was never repealed and there never was any real effort to try, was there?

Nope this is all just talk, happens every 4 years or so...pass it by.

[jayfish]

38. But...

they did not totally control the country then. Check out the transcript.

Jay

[Terran]

31. Not going to happen

As with the gay marriage amendment: they need a two-thirds majority in the Senate to get it off the ground, and that will never happen, because of the obvious reasons for the repugs wanting this (and I really think it's because of Ahnold, not Bush).

[PROGRESSIVE1]

34. No Austrians!

[Tansy_Gold]

36. I did a quick google, and it looks like this is nothing new

Similar resolutions have been proposed in the past, so maybe we don't need to get our panties in a twist just yet.

A few selections from a google search on repeal "22nd Amendment" constitution

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c108:H.J.RES.11.IH:

<snip>
108th CONGRESS

1st Session

H. J. RES. 11
Proposing an amendment to the Constitution of the United States to repeal the twenty-second article of amendment, thereby removing the limitation on the number of terms an individual may serve as President.


IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

January 7, 2003
Mr. SERRANO introduced the following joint resolution; which was referred to the Committee on the Judiciary
<end snip>

------------------
http://www.mapcruzin.com/news/bush050703a.htm

<snip>
Worrisome Move To Remove Presidential Term Limit from Constitution

. . .

This is very troubling. In recent months two proposals have been introduced to the House of Representatives to amend the Consitution of the United States and repeal the 22nd amendment. The 22nd amendment was put place to limit the number of times a president could be in office to two terms.

The first, HJRES 11 IH, was introduced on January 7, 2003 by Representative Serrano. On February 25, 2003 HJ 25 IH was introduced. These appear to be identical. The latter proposed amendment has 7 sponsors.

It is interesting to note that of the 8 representatives who sponsored the two proposal, 6 are democrats.
<end snip>
-----------------

http://www.worldandicollege.com/special_report/1986/december/college-resource10350.asp

{Note: this was written in 1986, and the "most popular" president the author refers to was Reagan, whom we now know to have been in the early stages of Alzheimer's)

<snip>

Now is a good time to reconsider the issue. The end of the second term of one of the most popular presidents in recent decades is visible on the horizon. There are those who pine for his continuation in office, and Representative Guy Vander Jagt (R-Michigan) has publicly proposed repeal of the amendment. <end snip>

-------------
http://www.usconstitution.net/constamprop.html

<snip> (with my emphasis added)
102nd Congress (1991-1992)

To disallow the desecration of the U.S. Flag
To allow a line-item veto in appropriations bills
To expand the term of Representatives to four years
To provide for direct election of the President and Vice-President (eliminating the Electoral College)
To force a balanced budget
To prohibit involuntary bussing of students
To make English the official language of the United States
To set term limits on Representatives and Senators
To repeal the 22nd Amendment (removing Presidential term limits)
To guarantee a right to employment opportunity for all citizens
To grant protections to unborn children
To provide for "moments of silence" in public schools
To allow Congress to regulate expenditures for and contributions to political campaigns
To provide for the rights of crime victims
To provide for access to medical care for all citizens
To repeal the 2nd Amendment (right to bear arms)
To prohibit the death penalty
To protect the environment
To repeal the 26th Amendment (granting the vote to 18-year olds) and granting the right to vote to 16-year olds
To provide equal rights to men and women
------------------

[jayfish]

37. Transcript Is Up.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6206190/

<SNIP>
DREIER: Well, Chris, I don‘t know how you can come to the conclusion that we don‘t have anyone in the queue. There are a lot of first-rate Republicans around the country that are governors.

And you know on Tuesday, our friend Orrin Hatch chaired a hearing in the Senate focused on this notion of dealing with the American—with a naturalized citizen becoming president of the United States. And it‘s—to me, if you look at the U.S. Constitution, Chris, we actually have some limitations on the American people to choose leaders they want.

Ron Reagan is sitting there. And I‘ll never forget, Chris, his father said—I‘ll never forget—to me in 1989, just as he was leaving—his No. 1 priority then was to repeal the 22nd Amendment to the Constitution which imposes term limits and limits, in fact, limit the choice of the American people. Similarly, along with that, we have the limitation that exists of someone who is a naturalized citizen not being able to run for president of the United States.

MATTHEWS: Right.

DREIER: So I think those are great proposals we can look it at.
</SNIP>


<SNIP>
MATTHEWS: I‘m sorry, David. I misunderstood you. I seriously thought that you were touting Arnold for major national office the way we began the conversation.

DREIER: Well, no, what I said—of course I am.

And the thing is, obviously, to run for president of the United States, there would have to be a change in the U.S. Constitution. And I think that‘s something worth looking at. And I think, again, that the constraints that exist in the Constitution do limit the choice of the American people. After four elections, FDR saw people in my party, unfortunately, limit the choice of the American people when it came to the term limits on the president.

MATTHEWS: Right.

DREIER: I happen to think that those should be lifted. Similarly, the Constitution limits the choice of someone like Governor Granholm or Governor Schwarzenegger or Madeleine Albright or Henry Kissinger.
</SNIP>

<SNIP>
MATTHEWS: If you had to vote right now on a Constitution—on submitting this to the states, Congressman, would you submit this amendment to the Constitution to the states? Would you do it?

DREIER: Would I do it? Absolutely.

And, frankly, I‘ll tell you what I‘m working on right now, Chris. And that is looking at the priority that Ron‘s father had of dealing with the 22nd Amendment to the Constitution, while at the same time looking at this question of naturalized citizens.

MATTHEWS: OK, thank you very much, Congressman David Dreier.
</SNIP>

Jay

[donhakman]

39. Kontrol

Control of voting software +
control of the Supreme Court +

a revise 22 ammendment =

a hundred year Reich.

[jayfish]

40. Thank You!

You got it.

Jay

[MAlibdem]

41. I don't see why this is so bad?

In my view, it is really against the American viewpoint of inclusion and assimilation of foreigners to not allow foreign-born citizens the ability to become President.

Allowing a person to be President for more than 2 terms also seems reasonable, it allows Americans a choice of who they want. We already have term limits, they're called elections.

Truly, if Bush wins, there is NO way that he (or the Republican Party) could retain power through the 2008 elections, the liberal/moderate/not fascist backlash would be much too strong.

[Oak2004]

42. You forget that the media will try to lull the people to sleep

just as it does in other fascist states.

There's a popular myth that the citizens of Nazi Germany were intimidated into submission. That's wrong. Most Germans never felt threatened. Even verbal criticism of the Nazis was tolerated as long as the critics didn't start to organize or attempt to publish and disseminate their views. The mainstream media of the day pretended all was well, and most Germans believed them.

Life inside Nazi Germany, until the war intruded, was oh so normal for the vast number of German citizens, and most citizens believed and approved of their government, even former members of what should have been the opposition.