Debating Kerry's Vietnam years with RWers (yeah, I know why bother, but)

[question everything]

On a message board that is supposed to be "non-partisan" dedicated to local issues.

I started mildly, by posting the review from the WSJ - that "bastion" of liberalism - of the movie Going Upriver. We saw it over the weekend and were shaken, impressed and so much proud of Kerry the man.

RW no. 1 came running, to post reviews of O'Neil book - which I did not bother to even read.

He: So you join Kerry Kerry calling our VN servicemen "losers" ... war criminals, rapists, murders, and torturers?

I then replied with quotes from the movie, below, by vets who met in Detroit to unburden themselves, adding that Kerry did not commit these atrocities, nor witnessed them, but when they marched in Washington, D.C., he became the clarion

"we attacked a village. if they are running, they are V.C. and should be killed. if they are not running... they are V.C. who are lazy and should be killed..."

"the only mention of the Geneva Convention was that if caught, all we had to provide was name, rank, and serial number and date of birth. We were never taught about the Geneva convention when we were the captors."

"when we air transferred prisoners, we were told to count them only upon arrival, never upon taking off..."

"we raped her in front of her family, in front of the whole village.."

Another RW tried to be cute with the following quote:

War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks nothing is worth a war is worse. A man who has nothing which he cares about more than his personal safety is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free, unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.

-- John Stuart Mill

Great, I replied. Bush, Cheney and Ashcroft are "miserable creatures," while Kerry followed JFK called to "ask what he could do for his country."

RW no. 3 also tried to be cute, too, quoted this amendment:

Amendment 14 of the U.S. Constitution:

3. No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice-President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof.


I just laughed in his face. Kerry, of course, has been in Congress for so many years, after his activity against the war that if they really thought it was applicable, they would have used it against him years ago. As pointed in the movie, he was warned that his activism might jeopardize his political career, but he chose to do what was right.

And, of course, McCain is the most famous POW and he and Kerry are friends.