Was it really * looking dopey or the issues that turned it around?

[Jersey Devil]

I know W looked like a complete nincompoop in the first debate but my personal opinion is that it was more about Kerry and whether voters would find him acceptable as an alternative. I think many were upset with Bush before the debate and thought he'd done a lousy job but didn't know Kerry enough to say they'd vote for him and to that time were considering staying with the devil they know.

I know to us political junkies that might sound impossible but Joe Sixpack tunes out until he absolutely has to listen to the issues and decide.

So my personal opinion is that even if Bush does a remarkable turnaround in his presentation tonight there is no way he can turn around the opinion that his administration has been a failure in foreign policy and on the domestic issues. I believe that Kerry simply has to continue looking Presidential and display the same type of leadership he showed in the first debate.

I think it is about issues now and on those I can't see how Bush can "win". Oh, Tweety and the rest of the "experts" may gush about how relaxed Bush may look tonight or how he was a totally different person from a presentation point of view, but I think we are beyond that.

It's about Iraq and homeland security and jobs, outsourcing, the deficit, the environment, choice, etc. In my humble opinion it doesn't matter a bit anymore who is more impressive doing their standup routine.

Of course, if Bush were to throw up on the moderator I wouldn't mind, but I don't think either another awful performance or a truly remarkable turnaround in style is going to help him one bit on the issues.

[TexasSissy]

1. Dopey (a/k/a Smirky).

[archineas]

2. belief in the system

i've always believed that in the American system, the system will always win.

recently, i was considering the enormity of the election. it occurred to me that in just about every case, America chooses the right candidate for the job. (Gore was chosen in 2000 by the people, just not by the supremes)

in 96, clinton was by far the better choice, the same in 92. there's no way i can rationalize that either dukakis or mondale was clearly the better choice in 88 or 84 respectively.

given all the strings pulled, i'm certain that the state of the american economy did make reagan seem the better choice in 1980. 76? obvious. 72? 68? while me might not consider nixon clearly the better choice in either case, consider his opponents and the political climate of the time.

going back 100 years, i can't cite a case where the people clearly chose the WRONG man for the job. i can't site a point where the choice was obvious and America didn't choose correctly. (once again, the supremes decided 2000...not the people).

i think that the first debate made the difference. kerry clearly indicated he was the better choice. this was the first impression for most people, and first impressions can mean the difference between winning and losing.

shrubbie doesn't get a second chance at a first impression now.

i have faith in the system, and i have faith America will choose John Kerry.

j

[progressivebydesign]

9. Very good assessment.. (and welcome!) n/t

[blm]

3. It was Bush's own awareness of his fraudulent governance that shown like a

beacon to anyone with a half a brain cell to their credit.

The emperor was NEKKID as a jaybird.

[Stephanie]

4. Kerry managed to get so much information out that the media hasn't covered

How many people do you think knew that Bush led bin Laden get away at Tora Bora? Kerry managed to squeeze so many facts into his answers that I think you're right, he will win on the issues. Americans just didn't KNOW this stuff if they are only watching the nightly news.

[dogtag]

5. I'm hoping that people who didn't watch the first debate

will tune in tonight. They may want to see if Shrubby really does all those smirks and sneers they heard about, but they will see what the initial viewers saw: Kerry looking every inch the president!!

That was the socko combination:

Kerry = Mr. President

Shrub = Mr. Petulant frat boy, not up to the task.

[Spike from MN]

7. Kerry really took command

of the debate. * wasn't able to counter and was on the defense throughout. Idiotic facial expressions aside, the contrast between Kerry's commanding presence and *'s floundering was obvious. It was also the first time people have seen them side-by-side and the contrast stood out even more in that setting. I think a lot of people finally realized there's a difference between actually leading and merely being stubborn.

[oasis]

6. Dopey guy compared to a serious, sober and presidential John Kerry.

It's a no brainer for anyone but the Koolaid guzzlers.

[progressivebydesign]

8. Issues. This has been my message since the debate.

Yes. Bush looked like petulant brat. BUT.. that is not enough to sway voters. It was the fact that Kerry was able to speak, for once, unfettered by the media, without media comments and attacks. The undecideds who swung Kerry's way were looking for more INFORMATION, and Kerry provided it. Bush looking like a deer in headlights was just icing on the cake.

Kerry got a boost because he is GOOD, not because Bush was bad. Kerry will do very well this evening, because he does not have to fight to stay on message, or memorize lines, or stick to someone else's talking points. That's the difference. Bush is charged with the ominous task of: remembering the message, remembering the talking points he was given, and remembering enough details to appear informed. THAT'S why he does so badly at these things, he's not stupid, but he does NOT have the depth and understanding of the issues facing voters and has relied on Rove and study aids to get him thru the staged events.

THere IS a HUGE reason he refuses to do press conferences, appear before unscreened audiences, etc. Reagan did okay because he was an actor, and a reasonably intelligent guy. He could memorize all the things he had to say, he probably had a bit more depth than Bush on the issues, or at least was quick enough (in the beginning) to think on his feet. Clinton, Gore, Kerry, and Bush I, are all able to grasp the issues, the world view, and dessinate it through their own words. THAT is the difference with Bush. Because he has NO background or understanding of the world, or America's issues, he can only memorize phrases and ideas.

Okay.. think of it this way. The best way to give a speech is to UNDERSTAND and STUDY the subject about which you are speaking. Trying to memorize a speech, without clear understanding of what you're trying to say, results in slip ups on simple words like.. then, or time, or.. (you get the idea). If Bush actually immersed himself in the world or in America's issues, he could speak with ease, coming from a place of understanding. Instead, he busies himself with video games, tv, and sleeping.. and relies on people to tell him what to say and do. THAT is why he's STILL not out of the woods tonight, even though this is a friendlier format to his particular weaknesses, than the traditional debate format.

[Vincardog]

10. aWol lost the first debate because he is lazy. He didn't do the Hard Work

required to prepare. I know we shouldn't make fun of those people with challenges but Sloth shows.

[BillZBubb]

11. It was Kerry's overall showing.

His demeanor, his message, his ease in the spotlight. He needed to pass the "presidential" test. He passed with flying colors.

The fact that the Chimperor was shown to have no clothes only made the results even more lop-sided.

A majority don't necessarily want Bush* to win. But, a lot of them had to be convinced that Kerry was a reasonable alternative. Kerry is making the grade.

All Kerry needs to do tonight is more of the same. Bush* is the one who needs a knockout. Kerry just has to continue to be strong and on message.

[caledesi]

12. His meltdown really started when Kerry mentioned Poppy!

Memo to Kerry: Mention Poppy again. Goodbye *.

[leftofthedial]

13. 1. Kerry looked and performed wonderfully

2. His own record damns the little bushturd to all but the delusional.

3. The little bushturd was awful.

[DinahMoeHum]

14. Dopey (the dwarf) had more brains and compassion than Smirky-boy.

The other 6 dwarves and Snow White would concur.

:evilgrin: