factcheck.org on the timber thing.

[Ohio Dem]

"President Bush himself would have qualified as a "small business owner" under the Republican definition, based on his 2001 federal income tax returns. He reported $84 of business income from his part ownership of a timber-growing enterprise. However, 99.99% of Bush's total income came from other sources that year. (Bush also qualified as a "small business owner" in 2000 based on $314 of "business income," but not in 2002 and 2003 when he reported his timber income as "royalties" on a different tax schedule.)"

http://www.factcheck.org/article.aspx@DocID=265

[librechik]

1. Bush LIES! "Whahh, do I own a timber business???"

what a moran.

[Jo March]

20. He sounded like such a smartass

We can't let this go. This administration LIES - little ones, big ones, lies of omission, etc. You name it and they lie about it.

[CarolynEC]

2. MAJOR KICK!!!!!

[greenbriar]

3. and a big

kick again

[DaveinMD]

6. this needs

to be sent to the media pronto. Who has those emails.

[Girlieman]

4. So Bush lied? Why am I not surprised?

[Deb]

5. Nice work! n/t

[Ksec]

7. email this to media so they dont play on it !!

[PROGRESSIVE1]

8. Thank You!!!! We needed this fact!

:bounce:

[theoceansnerves]

9. so bush doesn't know his own tax return?!

amazing!!!
that makes his comeback even more stupid!

[TaleWgnDg]

56. talk about stupid, heh?

. . . it's like Kerry opened the door, said his timber company line, and GWBush grabbed ahold of it like a fish grabs a worm on a hook.

all of it proves that GWBush is too damn stupid to have a thought about what is on his own IRS tax return. think about that! seriously.

stuff like that -- whether it's truthful or not -- is easily checked since it would be on an IRS tax return but Bush took the bait!!!

unreal! what a zero is GWBush. why is this man our president?!!

. . . . . . .

[catchthefever]

Cool!

Kerry uses FactCheck.ORG!!!

[alarcojon]

32. Cooler yet

Oily Dick himself vouched for the accuracy of the site - when you give him a mulligan on the .org part, of course.

[Joanne98]

10. KICK

[amandae]

11. HUGE KICK to keep this at the top of the heap

I agree about sending it to the media. With *'s attempt at humor it's going to be played up in the media ... they should have the truth. I'm hoping NBC's fact checkers pull that one up.

[noise626]

12. way to sneak that in John!!

This should be good :)

pax
ant

[atre]

13. bump

[Generator]

14. Fucking A!!!!!

John Kerry knows more about Chimp than the Chimp does.

[CarolynEC]

15. Kick again!!!

[SemiCharmedQuark]

16. WOAH!! Kick!

:kick:

[ellie]

17. Oh, that is priceless!

Priceless, I tell you! Way to go John!

[progressivebydesign]

18. Hope the media gets this!! n/t

[high density]

19. Thanks

I figured there was truth to that statement.

[bigtree]

21. Yow!

:bounce:

[Fiendish Thingy]

22. "Yuh need sum wood?"

That's what he said to Charlie after Kerry brought this up. It was the most bizzare, surreal moment in the debate, and had me praying that Kerry knew what he was talking about...and he did.

[Waverley_Hills_Hiker]

28. Yes..VERYsurreal, especially on radio..

"I own a timber company?".......then..there was this dead air, then Bushes remark.

Woah! It was like a gotcha for Kerry...now it turns out Kerry was RIGHT!

[Bullshot]

66. When Bush responded to Kerry's statement on the topic,

Bush acted very incredulous, like, "I get income from this? What the fuck are you talking about? Where did you pull this from?"

It may be a small thing, but it shows that Kerry knows more about Bush that Bush does.

[TaleWgnDg]

49. exactly . . . my first thoughts too . . .

if John Kerry hit GWBush with such exactness, with something that's so easy to check, then I knew IMMEDIATELY Kerry had some information about GeorgeW's income tax return (which, btw, GWBush signed u/ oath as understanding what's in the return) . . .

and the trap was set . . .

But the bizarre moment was when GWBush deepened the hole he had created by saying, mockingly, sarcastically, "oh, I own a timber company?" And then, as if that wasn't enough, he tried his campaign-trail humor on top of it by adding, "yah need sum wood?"

How dumb can this guy get? How much does GWBush want to prove his stupidity, rigidity, and down-right arrogance to us all?

It's time for a change, America. It's time for decency. It's time for honor and character. And most importantly, it's time for a guy with a full set of cards to be seated in the Oval Office. Wouldn't it be great to have a REAL president as president? as Commander-in-Chief?

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

[Pirate Smile]

23. Send this out to all the news channels and stations since they

probably can't do it for themselves.

[GimmeDANEger]

24. bump

[yardwork]

25. I'm using this in my letters to the media

I hope they make a big deal out of this.

[DeepModem Mom]

26. kick

[IkeWarnedUs]

27. Looks like the Idiot in Chief may own more than one

Senator Kerry was obviously refering to the $84 Bush reported on his 2001 Federal Income Tax Return on his Schedule C (EZ-C actually, link below).

This entry appears on Bush's financial disclosure form for 2003:

Page 8, Item #9 - LSTF, LLC, a limited liability company organized on 02-10-03 for the purpose of the production of trees for commercial sales. Company is owned equally by The Lone Star Trust (George W. Bush, Grantor) and John Taylor. No commercial sales are anticipated until the year 2007.
100% of Assets consist of:

Wells Fargo Bank - chg Value $6,386 Income $0
Inventory - Cost of trees Value $219,538 Income $0

(link below)

Since this LLC was formed in 2003, it doesn't seem it could be the same company as reported in 2001.

Also, does anyone know, is this the same John Taylor that Bush appointed as Undersecretary of Treasury for International Affairs?

Links:

Bush's 2001 tax return with $84 entry on page 5 of the PDF. The Statements refered to are not shown on this link.

http://www.tax.org/THP/Presidential/2002-9736-1.pdf

Bush's 2003 Financial Disclosure Report (filed in 2004) - the entry shown above is at the very end:

http://www.opensecrets.org/pfds/pfd2003/N00008072_2003.pdf

[SpiralHawk]

30. What about the Gold Mines ?

Oh, I forgot, gold is Poppy Bush's Balliwick in partnernship with his Saudi suckup buddies, just as funding the Nazi's was Prescott Bush's suckup money-making thing. You really need a program to keep the BushCo "operations" straight.

From investivative reporter Greg Palast:

"In the final days of the Bush (Senior) administration, the Interior Department made an extraordinary but little noticed change in procedures under the 1872 Mining Law, the gold rush–era act that permitted those whiskered small-time prospectors with their tin pans and mules to stake claims on their tiny plots. The department initiated an expedited procedure for mining companies that allowed Barrick to swiftly lay claim to the largest gold find in America. In the terminology of the law, Barrick could "perfect its patent" on the estimated $10 billion in ore—for which Barrick paid the U.S. Treasury a little under $10,000. Eureka!

(snip)

Notably, one of the first acts of the junior Bush's Interior Department in 2001 was to indicate it would reverse Clinton administration rules requiring gold extractors to limit the size of waste dumps and to permit new mines even if they were likely to cause "substantial, irreparable harm." The New York Times ran a long, front-page story on this rule-relaxing windfall for Nevada goldmining companies, but nowhere did the Times mention the name of the owner of the largest gold mine in Nevada, Barrick, nor its recent payroller, the president's father.

(snip)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/articles/03/07/09_gold.html

[blondeatlast]

29. Kerry mentioned the $84 dollars, didn't he?

I swear he did, but I'm a bit on the tipsy side now, so I could be wrong!

[shawmut]

33. Yes, he brought it up n/t

[Jeff in Cincinnati]

31. Liar or Stupid or Both?

I'll think is all three!

[shawmut]

34. kick

:kick:

[Sparkly]

35. Just yer typical small bizniss owner

Wanna buy some wood? Yuck yuck yuck....

I love the way Kerry just let that one slide... :)

[doni_georgia]

36. Send this to Tweety and Olbermann eom

[girl gone mad]

37. Why is this important?

Because Bush claimed the $84 so he could take small business deductions. It's a loophole, and his admission that he doen't even know he owns it is an admission that it is a SCAM.

[SpiralHawk]

41. This is one Big Boner that is going to bit Bush in the ass

It is going to turn out that Bush bit himself his own ass with his ignorance and his arrogance. chomp.

It will be a pleasure to watch this side story unfold.

[George_Bonanza]

38. Worst joke ever

He should lose the debate solely based on that.

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

39. Good

Now let's all inform the lazy fucks in the media of this fact.

[question everything]

40. I cannot open this link and the search engine is disabled

what does it say? please?

[quaoar]

42. So why didn't Kerry follow up on Bush's lie?

He just let it drop instead of saying, "Yes, you had ownership in a timber partnership."

[CarolynEC]

46. Because he didn't have access to any of the Internets

[Julien Sorel]

50. When would you suggest he do this following up?

Maybe he should have run up to Gibson, demanded to respond, and then talked over Gibson?

And was he supposed to get into a debate at the debate over Bush's tax return? It's a sideshow issue, something for the media to uncover. Arguing over it would make Kerry seem like a petty guy who is desperate to score small points. Bush got in his little zinger, and now he pays the price, just like Cheney did for his "meeting Edwards" comment.

[quaoar]

43. Kick

[struggle4progress]

44. Yippie! Everybody knew right away he was lying!

:smoke: :smoke: :smoke:

[Octafish]

45. Bush is so crooked he can't even pee straight.

Do I look like I've got a timber mill?
Tell me about it. Enron is another thing.

[LynneSin]

47. Maybe it's factcheck.com we should be looking at?

CRAXY!!!

[Catherine Vincent]

48. I'm trying to figure this thing out.

Is this guy so rich that he doesn't know he owned interests in a timber company? How can he not know that? And why didn't Kerry bring it back up again?

[NightOwwl]

51. Maybe Kerry knew Du'ers would catch it.

:)

[TaleWgnDg]

54. Kerry is sharp. Very sharp.

He let GWBush's sarcastic, arrogant (and dumb) remark set there . . . just set there. Kerry knew. Kerry knew that GWBush's idiocy would make tomorrow's front pages AGAIN.

This was soooooooooooo easy to check. So easy. After all, it's in GWBush's IRS tax return. Signed. Under oath. So why should Kerry retort w/ a "is so" to a then "is not."

Kerry is patient. Unlike GWBush's unchecked impulses of the mouth and mind.

. . . . . .

[Julian English]

52. You know what *'s favorite wood is?

Victor Ashe!

Ask Kitty Kelly.

[fortyfeetunder]

53. Homepage time

Keep this kicked and nominated for homepage

:kick:

[gauguin57]

55. Olbermann has already scored the debate clearly back to Kerry ...

... because of George's cluelessness about owning a timber company. He knows about factcheck.org ...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5445086/

"The point awarded to Mr. Bush in the thirteenth round is hereby withdrawn and awarded to Mr. Kerry, for the latter's enterprising hoisting of his opponent on said opponent's own petard.

Mr. Bush is also penalized three points for a truth foul.
Mr. Bush is further penalized two points for getting snarky while in the act of being factually incorrect.

The thirteenth round, originally scored 2-0 for Mr. Bush, now reverts to a 1-1 draw, and the rounds awarded total now changes from 12 Kerry, 4 Bush, 3 Drawn, to 12 Kerry, 3 Bush, 4 Drawn.

The final points scoring is now adjusted from Kerry 15, Bush 12, to Kerry 16, Bush 6. The Scorer thus designates the outcome as a Kerry victory outside the margin for statistical error. The scorer's table reproaches President Bush for not knowing when he has wood."

[TaleWgnDg]

57. LOL . . .

"The scorer's table reproaches President Bush for not knowing when he has wood."

too f****** funny!!

[Gloria]

58. KICK!

eom

[Dark Jedi]

59. Why grow timber here? Cheaper abroad.

We aren't outsourcing timber yet? That is the biggest f***ing shocker of the night! LOL :)

[obiwan]

60. Laura wishes he would "keep his timber limber."

[whirlygigspin]

61. let's all become small buisness owners for the next tax year

after all, only little people pay taxes.

[VOX]

62. So, Cheney never met Edwards, and * didn't have an interest in timber...

Isn't it **great** that these outstanding MORAL leaders stick so hard and fast to the truth?

I really don't know how anyone -- anyone -- in their right mind can vote for these lying sacks, and actually feel okay about it.

[Dark Jedi]

68. The Cult of Money

Being right isn't important to Freepers. It's all about the benjamins for them.

[npincus]

63. The AP picked up this story

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=694&ncid=703&e=3&u=/ap/20041009/ap_on_el_pr/debate_fact_check


One of the night's most bewildering exchanges resulted from Bush's claim that Kerry's plan to raise income taxes on the richest Americans would increase the tax burden on 900,000 small businesses whose owners claim the profits on their personal returns.


An analysis by the Annenberg Public Policy Center's FactCheck.org and other independent groups found that the Bush campaign is counting every rich person who has even $1 of outside business income as a small business owner, even if they have no employees.


The Urban-Brookings Tax Policy Center projected that nearly 1 million people would fall into this category, but only half get most of their income from the business and only 471,000 of them have employees.


Kerry startled Bush by saying that even the president is counted as a small business for tax purposes because he once earned $84 from a timber company he owned.


"I own a timber company?" Bush asked. "That's news to me." Then he paused and added, "Need some wood?"


The Annenberg analysis said Bush qualifies under that definition because he reported $84 in income from his part-ownership of a timber enterprise on his 2001 federal tax return.

[Piperay]

64. Chimp sure made

an ass out of himself on that one ... hahaha! :bounce:

[noamnety]

65. wishful thinking

I was hoping Kerry would comeback with "if you have any question about the timber company, you can verify it on factcheck.org. Or if you prefer, factcheck.com."

[sisenor]

67. Looking for "fact check" on Bush's N. Korea policy

From last night's transcript

Bush: . . . in my speech to the Congress I said there's an axis of evil, Iraq, Iran and North Korea. And we're paying attention to it. And we're making progress.


A few seconds later on the draft question:

Bush: And by that I mean we're moving troops out of Korea and replacing them with more effective weapons. We don't need as much manpower on the Korean Peninsula to keep a deterrent.

WHAT "EFFECTIVE WEAPONS" IS HE TALKING ABOUT?

Does it make sense to anyone that if N. Korea is such a dangerous axis of evil, then what we need to do is take the troops out of there? Only in BUSHWORLD.