Dean FLIP FLOP on payroll tax

[MIMStigator]

This is what he says now

"We're going to get rid of all the Bush tax cuts, but we're going to replace it with … middle-class tax fairness … which is going to be aimed at the payroll tax."


This is in January

"Here's the problem with the payroll tax holiday. It's a very attractive idea. The problem with it is, it's completely irresponsible. Who is going to play fill-in-the-gap with Medicare and Social Security? That's what the payroll tax pays for. If you take money out of that to give it as a tax increase, what's the difference between that and President Bush taking money out of Social Security in order to give tax increases, other than who it goes to?"

[eyesroll]

1. There's a difference between a payroll-tax holiday and changing the tax

A payroll-tax holiday means (depending on how it's structured) that nobody pays the payroll tax for a given time period. You don't, I don't, my neighbor who works part-time at a grocery store doesn't, Bill Gates doesn't.

A payroll tax change could do any number of things. Right now, the payroll tax is capped around $85,000 -- if you make more than that, you no longer have to pay the tax. If we exempted the first $25,000 in income from the payroll tax, then upped the limit enough to make up the difference (or do away with it entirely), we have no net loss of tax revenue for Medicare and Social Security.

I have not seen details of the payroll tax change Dean advocates, or the holiday he condemns, so this is commentary in the generic and not specific.

[Padraig18]

2. All true.

But this is an 'agenda' thread, you see. ;eyes:

[MIMStigator]

4. not all true. A holiday means it only steals from ss for shorter time

Dean said it was irresponsible, now he says he is going to do it

[TLM]

5. Where did he say he was going to do the holiday thing?

looks to me like he said tax fairness aimed at payroll taxes.


You folks are really getting desperate.

[MIMStigator]

6. he's saying he will CUT PAYROLL TAXES when he said it was irresponsible

flip flop flip flop

[Padraig18]

7. you have yet to provide a quote saying he will CUT the payroll tax.

he said he will examine the payroll tax with an eye toward tax fairness. Mountain, meet mole hill.:eyes:

[Padraig18]

13. *crickets chirping*

[Bread and Circus]

20. Yeah, we don't know what he'll do because Dean is keeping it a secret...

shhhhh.....


:eyes:

[twilight]

21. you are right!

I really don't trust him, sorry ... :(

:dem:

[democratreformed]

12. No, he just wants it to appear that way to the average voter n/t

[liberalnurse]

18. Is this a paying position?

There is so much energy.....there must be a reward.

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MIMStigator]

3. How does a given period change Dean saying it's stealing from social sec.

"Who is going to play fill-in-the-gap with Medicare and Social Security? That's what the payroll tax pays for. If you take money out of that to give it as a tax increase, what's the difference between that and President Bush taking money out of Social Security in order to give tax increases, other than who it goes to?"

[stickdog]

14. There are two distinctly different issues here.

1) Bush is ROBBING the FICA revenue/Social Security expenditures and STILL running record deficits. Dean wants to put an end to this fiscal negligence.

2) While Dean's plan certainly doesn't need to be revenue neutral (considering that right now, in practice, FICA is no more than a regressive income tax), given his previous statements on this, it probably will be.

[stickdog]

9. My idea is to simply get rid of the FICA cutoff, use the extra revenue to

reduce the rate (probably nearly in half), and put the surplus in, yes, a lockbox ASAP.

[beyurslf]

8. Exempting the first 20,000 or however much will not shortchange

social secruity if you increase or remove the cap. All the funds or more can be made up. It is a tax cut for any one who makes less than the cap.

[dsc]

10. So the only option is a payroll tax holiday?

n/t

[MIMStigator]

11. no he was answering about someone else's idea of a holidy with a GENERAL

answer saying he doesn't believe in payroll tax cut

[eyesroll]

15. Then why did he say he had trouble with a payroll tax holiday

and not a payroll tax cut?

[realdem]

16. Difference

A payroll tax holiday means for that period of time no payroll tax is collected, period. Since it funds Social Security AMONG OTHER THINGS, then there would be NO money during that time giong into SS. A payroll tax reduction reduces (does not cut entirely for a period of time)the tax across the board and tonight Dean said that reduction would not in turn reduce the SS amount.

[Bread and Circus]

19. That's pretty funny...

[markus]

22. Simple. You remove the cap

and the inherent regressiveness, and cut the people at the bottom of the pile.

Dean's trying not to be too specific until 1) he has a plan that 2) has been through research and significant Devil's Advocate process. I don't blame him for that.

He should have just said: I will announce my plan when it is ready. I'm not going to let my opponents in this party or the White House tell you what my plan is. I'm going to tell you what my plan is, it will be fair for working Americans, and will preserve Social Security and Medicare.

[Lobo_13]

24. I seriously doubt he'd remove the cap

Removing the cap would never pass. Could you imagine all the money that will pour into Washington to stop that? Besides, legislators wouldn't voluntarily raise tax on themselves.

He will most likely raise the cap significantly and cut the overall rate.

[nancyharris]

23. This is a bit of smoke and mirrors.

An FDIC payment to those over 65 is based on the amount they paid into the system. If you raise the cap and lower the base then when they retire poor people will receive LESS in Social Security (because they paid in less) and the rich will receive more (because they paid in more).

The problem is not quite so simple.

[John_H]

25. Stop it!!! Now you're going after the difference between his

rhetoric and his..uh...earlier rhetoric! First you go after the difference between his record and rhetoric-- and now this rhetoric vs. rhetoric thing. How are people supposed to focus on the movement if they keep having to worry about inconsistencies between rhetoric, record and, now, rhetoric!

[Rowdyboy]

26. And I should be surprised because.....?

LAst week it was lets roll back tax cuts. This week its, lets cut taxes. Same o, same o....