Q on a W debate statement - re Prescription Discount Drug cards

[zbdent]

Okay, I did not log on after the debates. Watched some TV, went to bed.

But I have a question.

At one point, Bush was talking about the Prescription discount cards, and gave an example that seemed ridiculous. He said that so-and-so went to a drugstore and bought $10 of medication at the discounted price of something like $1.14.

Now, being out of the loop as he has always been, I don't think that Bush would realize that you might get 1 or 2 pills for $10 these days. But that's not the Bullshit moment I was wondering.

85 to 90 percent discount using the discount card? I can't believe that. From what all the propaganda said, it looked like you would get a ten percent discount using the card, worse than Ohio's Golden Buckeye card.

Am I wrong?

[nono]

1. You are not wrong

This is a ripoff.

[cheshire]

2. check out factcheck.org

[soupkitchen]

3. Another good catch

My thought last night was, if you could buy perscription medications for ten dollars we wouldn't need discounts.
Most co-payments these days are twenty-five or thirty-five dollars.

[arwalden]

13. I Think He Was Describing The Equivalent Of A "CVS Pharmacy" Discount Card

You know... the one that gives you coupon-savings without having to clip the coupons. Just last week I saved 10% on a bottle of Maalox.

-- Allen

[unblock]

4. they usually search far and wide for the best possible example

so yeah, maybe there is ONE particular case where the right quantity of the right medicine in the right state could turn a $10 purchase into a $1.14, but it's obviously not at all typical to get and 88.6% savings.

it's just like 4 years ago, when they found some middle-class family that would save quite a lot from shrub's tax cuts, because they had the right number of kids and spousal income and college and mortgage interest and whatever the hell else made them just right as an extreme example. of course, most middle-class families just got $300, and some didn't even get that.

[oscar111]

5. Privatizing, thats what the cards are.

If i understand right, the cards are from private profit companies.

Puts a layer of profit gouging in medicare.

PLUS, getting part of medicare from private companies.. 20 of them... has opened up the elderly to non-medicare names, lots of them.. all those new companies.

Which now has resulted in scam artists posing as the new private companies.

With one gov. medicare as earlier, this crime wave would not happen.

Elders now are giving scammers financial ID, so ID theft is engulfing them. Tough to straighten out, and some lose life savings as the bank is sent draft for payment wires from the scammers.

Ugly, all bush's fault. Elderly lose life savings and are .. said one poster at DU.. elderly ARE among the homeless.

[underpants]

8. Yes but look at what privatization has done for :Airlines/Energy traders/

and telecommunications. Worked perfectly (American/Enron/MCI) right?

Privatization of airline security has already had disasterous results. We all watched the results on that horrible September morning.

On EDIT- I really meant deregulation but the same goes for privatization.

[durablend]

7. The cards are a SHAM

The only real savings are from the $600 credit (if you qualify)

If you don't, expect to pay just as much (if not more) as you would with any of the "free" discount drug cards that are advertised all over the place.

[TexasSissy]

10. Pfizer has pulled out of the program. This program is a farce on our

senior citizens. Those who are using them now are finding that out, I'm sure. I've read, however, that not many have obtained them. And the program doesn't really go into effect until 2006, long after * is elected (he hopes), so they won't find out the joke until way too late.

The most you can get on a discount card, I've read, is 25% or 30% off. And that is ONLY for SOME drugs on SOME cards. Furthermore, the provider of the card can change the rules monthly, without notice. So the holder of a card will NEVER be able to rely on that card being able to be used for a particular drug, month in and month out. Or how much the discount is.

Importing drugs from Canada, however, would save us ALL over 80% on the cost of drugs. You do the math. Which way is better for our citizens and our seniors? Why would * not want the better way? Could it be that big pharma gave the Republicans tens of millions of dollars in campaign contributions over the last four years? Gee, you think THAT has anything to do with it?

* is not working for us. He is working for oil and pharmaceutical corporations. And that's the truth.

[BrendaStarr]

12. Plus there are severe problems with the whole setup

You can only change cards once a year. Yet the drug companies can change the deal you signed up for weekly.

Sounds like a new form of credit card. And, I'm sure that the real terrible effects of this will only be felt after the election.

The DNC showed that it would generally be cheaper to order drugs from Canada than to use any of the drug discount cards and generally cheaper to buy drugs at regular prices than to use any of them.

Here is how I have it the article referenced on a blog:


Posted 050504
Drugs Will Cost More with new Discount Cards (U.S. Newswire)

Excerpt: THE FOLLOWING ARE SOME KEY FACTS ABOUT THE NEW MEDICARE DRUG CARD:

1) THE MEDICARE DISCOUNT CARD IS OFTEN MORE EXPENSIVE THAN WHAT IS AVAILABLE TO SENIORS TODAY. The discount card that Bush is touting actually offers prices that are higher than what is available on the market today for many drugs. Seniors also must pay an annual fee for the drug card, so they will pay higher prices for some drugs.

Prices with Medicare Savings Card vs. Current Prices (All price comparisons in this report are drawn from "New Medicare Drug Cards Offer Few Discounts", Minority Staff, Committee on Government Reform, U.S. House of Representatives, April 2004.)

Prices under Medicare Savings Card Current Prices without Savings Card
Lipitor (10mg, 30 cap) Pharmacy Care Alliance: $74.72 RxSavings: $71.19
Prevacid (30mg, 30 cap) Pharmacy Care Alliance: $130.68 RxSavings: $147.01

Zocor (40 mg, 30 tap) Pharmacy Care Alliance: $128.69 RxSavings: $124.32

Aricept (10 mg, 30 cap) Pharmacy Care Alliance: $139.11 RxSavings: $132.39
Lipitor (10mg, 30 cap) Drugstore.com: $62.99 Federal Supply Schedule: $40.10
Prevacid (30mg, 30 cap) Drugstore.com: $120.99 Federal Supply Schedule: $53.90

Zocor (40 mg, 30 tap) Drugstore.com: $123.99 Federal Supply Schedule: $69.27

Aricept (10 mg, 30 cap) Drugstore.com: $127.99 Federal Supply Schedule: $76.51


These four drugs are all among the top ten most popular drugs. In addition to the higher prices, Pharmacy Care Alliance charges a $19 annual fee. The RxSavings card charges a $29.95 annual fee. Yet both cards make it more expensive to buy a market basket of the ten most popular drugs. That market basket would only cost $959 from Drugstore.com. It would cost $1,046 from RxSavings, and $1,061 from Pharmacy Care Alliance.

2) THE PRICES FROM THE DRUG DICOUNT CARD ARE FAR MORE EXPENSIVE THAN WOULD BE AVAILABLE IF BUSH WOULD SIGN REAL REIMPORTATION: American drugs produced by American companies are much less expensive for Canadian Seniors. Republicans fought real reimportation.

---

Canadian Prices vs. Medicare Savings Card Prices for Four Popular Drugs

Prices under Medicare Savings Card Current Prices (Canada)
Lipitor (10mg, 30 cap) Pharmacy Care Alliance: $74.72 RxSavings: $71.19
Prevacid (30mg, 30 cap) Pharmacy Care Alliance: $130.68 RxSavings: $147.01

Zocor (40 mg, 30 tap) Pharmacy Care Alliance: $128.69 RxSavings: $124.32

Aricept (10 mg, 30 cap) Pharmacy Care Alliance: $139.11 RxSavings: $132.39
Lipitor (10mg, 30 cap): $49.85

Prevacid (30mg, 30 cap): $56.54


Zocor (40 mg, 30 tap): $63.98


Aricept (10 mg, 30 cap): $119.04





3) DRUG MANAGERS CAN POCKET THE MONEY. Even though George Bush's misleading ads try to convince seniors that they will save money, the truth is that prescription drug companies are not required to offer seniors a minimum discount. In fact, companies offering the new card have to pass on a "share" of the rebates they receive but they don't have to pass on all of it - and they don't have to tell beneficiaries about how much of the discount they are pocketing. Insurance companies also are not required to disclose drug prices before the supposed reductions are imposed. Already, drug companies are hiking up their prices in anticipation of the "discount" they might offer.

4) ONE CHOICE, ONE CHANCE. Insurance companies can change which drugs are covered and the amount of discounts offered any time they want. However, seniors can only choose one card instead of using numerous cards to increase savings. Also, seniors will be prohibited from changing cards for one year. Once seniors are locked into a card, they can't switch - even if they find greater discounts with another card or the insurance companies

That doesn't sound like the promise the President made when he was campaigning in 2000. Then, he criticized the Democrats saying: "The Gore plan offers seniors one choice, one chance, one option. I offer seniors the prescription drug coverage they need, and the options they deserve." (Santa Fe New Mexican, 10/31/00). But now seniors get their one chance to make a risky choice, while insurance companies have free reign to change their plans and their prices.

5) PRIVACY AT RISK. Insurance companies participating in the drug card program can collect seniors' medical information, including which drugs they're buying, when and where they're purchasing drugs, and what they're paying. And how will this information be used? Insurers can base coverage decisions on this data in 2006 and afterwards - putting high-cost beneficiaries at risk of being refused coverage by companies wanting to protect their bottom line.

6) THE MEDICARE BILL IS A SPECIAL INTEREST GRAB-BAG. From start to finish, the Medicare Bill has been a scandalous giveaway to the drug industry. The White House withheld information about the actual cost of the bill and then tried to silence the Medicare Actuary from disclosing the true cost of the bill. The GAO has criticized the ad campaign intended to promote the benefit as misleading. The bill bans the federal government from using its buying power to negotiate lower prices. An ethics investigation is looking into whether House leaders tried to intimidate and bribe Rep. Nick Smith into voting for the bill.

The original article is at: http://releases.usnewswire.com/GetRelease.asp?id=29803

Their tables make it a lot clearer.


Save the above info for arguments.

I have it referenced in archive at http://news4u.alturl.com/economy/archive4-e.html , but I don't have a bookmark on the specific spot. (It has the tables too)

[papau]

14. Excellent data - thanks for posting! :-)

:-)

[wryter2000]

6. I screamed at the tv at that poingt

"The problem isn't drugs that cost $10, you asshole!"

[funky_bug]

9. Further, and I would LOVE for them to pounce on this...

Shortly after the decision went down, PBS did an in-depth report on how hard it was for seniors to actually sign up for these programs. There is so much red tape that they have to get assitance from community centers just to enroll.

Also, they interviewed a woman who did successfully enroll in the program and received a bit over a grand in prescription benefits. However, when all was said and done, her total benefits went down almost 2 grand because the medicare monies were counted as INCOME, therefor bringing her total earnings up over a certain threshold which reduces her eligibilty for other senior benefits.

This needs to be researched and brought up soon!

[captain disgruntled]

11. Thanks for the recap of specific financial costs....

...my mum qualifies for one of these things, and I asked--hopefully--if she anticipated that it would do her any good (she's long had hypertension, cardiac problems, and she was just diagnosed with diabetes :( . The woman could use some help with her meds) and she confirmed what I had heard, that the offerings are complicated, overlapping, and confusing, and the qualifying seniors are supposed to do their own research. You choose a plan based on the one or two medications that you need to reduce the cost of (great, if you only take ONE), but my mother said that individual providers are under no obligation to retain that particular medication in that plan for the duration of your commitment, but you are stuck with that card for 12 months.

Gee thanks.