Who lost the debate?

[Renew Deal]

[madaboutharry]

1. Why are people

thinking Dean lost the debate? Didn't catch it, what happened?

[Kathleen04]

3. He was...

attacked by Sharpton quite a few times for being "hypocritical about race". He wasn't as together as usual. And, he tried to ask someone in the audience a question to prove a point (but the moderators would not let him)..when you were supposed to ask another candidate a question.

Not awful, but not a strong appearance...he got entangled in some attacks.

[Padraig18]

4. He didn't

Just the ususal 'sour grapes/piss on dean at any opportunity' crowd weighing in with votes.

[Cornus]

27. Yes he did

Not *sour grapes* at all...he really did poorly. Stay in denial if you like.

[goodhue]

7. two lows really

First Sharpton attacked him on diversity of Vermont cabinet and Dean didn't handle it very well. Repeated lame joke about Trent Lott and MLK. Sharpton didn't let up and Dean looked visibly out of sorts.

Second during segment in which candidates were supposed to ask question of other candidates, Dean tried to ask question of an audience member who he named and the moderator called him on it as against previously-agreed to format. When Dean was unable to ask the question scripted for his plant, he seemed flustered and when prompted if he had any question for the other candidates, he said he did not, which is really very weird.

[retyred]

55. dean had a plant in the audience?

and called him by name? Oh that would've been a real answer to a meaningful question. LOL!


retyred in fla
“Good-Night Paul, Wherever You Are”
So I read this book

[arewethereyet]

11. same thing that always happens

he's a poor debator

[liberalnurse]

43. Clark lost because he didn't even show up.....

dah....He was again, a "No Show". Most people get terminated from employment if they "No Show" twice....

This poll I suspect has a strong representation of Clark suppporters....and their guy was a "No Show.".... Attack Dean and not even have any expectation for their candidate.

Oh well......typical narrow scope and rock throwing behavior.

[TrueAmerican]

48. Clark will probably gain another 10 pts in NH

Good job General!

LOL!!!!

[retyred]

52. Damn he should've been there

To be in Iowa in the winter when you don't have to, who could ask for anything more? What a no brainer decision.

Way to go Wes!


retyred in fla
“Good-Night Paul, Wherever You Are”
So I read this book

[mikewriter]

50. Hell's yeah

Clark is a bum. Show your face. At least Lieberman had the balls too. Clark lost out as did all his supporters. Of those who were there, Kerry did nothing to impress me. Even less than he has been doing.

[Clark Can WIN]

57. Please don't say Lieberman and balls

in the same sentance. :puke:

[Pax Argent]

58. If the DLC is throwing this little party

they're doing a great job. They have the balance of the contenders who aren't going to make the cut attack Dean from every direction while Clark stands above it all blithely smiling. He doesn't have to come across as negative while they use the balance of the other eight to attack Dean at the appropriate points (Edwards and Sharpton on race, Kerry on foreign policy experience, Lieberman for the right wing stuff, etc.).

The RNC uses the right wing media (Rush, Hannity, etc) the exact same way.

I'm not really a Dean man. I'll support whoever it takes to restore sanity to the White House, but you got to admire a guy (Dean) who can stand his ground against seven of his peers while knowing full well the worst is yet to come. I wish him luck.

[Doctor_J]

68. Sharpton is DLC?

THat is a new one on me.

Rev Al lost some points with me last night. He's probably right, but we all have to keep our eyes on the real target, which is Bush. Constructive, everyone.

[Evanstondem]

53. Because most Dean supporters don't come to DU any more

I check in occasionally after debates, but that's about it.

[Padraig18]

2. This is hilarious!

Dean is both winning and losing the debate. The 'usual suspects' have obviously freeped this poll...

[bhunt70]

6. freeped because they dont agree with you?

please climb off your high horse.

*didn't vote because I didn't watch it*

[Padraig18]

9. No, freeped because...

He's WINNING the 'who won' poll, too. Additionally, I'll thank you not to be telling me to 'climb down off of my high horse'...

[bhunt70]

13. but your assumption is

that if someone doesn't agree with the other poll (or your point of view presumably) then it has been "freeped". It's ludicrous and single minded. People have their own points of view and just because they disagree doesn't mean they are freepers in dem clothing.

Give it a break.

[Padraig18]

16. they're completely inconsistent results.

And I will NOT 'give it a break'.

[bhunt70]

19. then how can you assume that this one is wrong?

[Padraig18]

20. Why do you assume it IS?

:eyes:

[bhunt70]

23. I dont...my issue is that you think this one has been "Freeped"

like I said, I didnt see the debate, so I can't say one way or the other.

Maybe some people think the other was "cultified". (which I would also take offense to).

[Padraig18]

25. I DID see it.

Edwrads did well, Dean did well, Kerry did well and Kucinich did well.

[bhunt70]

28. well it seems the majority of people disagree with you.

all those freepers I guess.

[Padraig18]

30. You got that right.

Have a nice day.

[bhunt70]

33. you too, kool.

[edzontar]

63. This poll is freeped....it is a virtual certainty...

But then, this whole FORUM has been being freeped for months now..

Ever since the autumn "invasion" and the evil wrought by the "Stop Dean Movement" threads.

Many of the real Democrats who used to post here have moved on or cut back their appearances--but I still drop by from time to time to marvel, usually in horror, at what this place has become.

Bye now.

[Renew Deal]

18. He's winning because his supporters

are not willing to admit the truth.

[JohnKleeb]

10. did the same but I am impressed to hear a conceus that says my guy did goo

good that is

[Rowdyboy]

5. Not Clark!

He stayed in New Hampshire so he can exceed expections!

BTW I voted that Dean lost the debate. I didn't watch it, and my candidate wasn't even involved but who cares? In response to the general nastiness around today, why not attack the front runner?

Its not like DU polls mean shit. The "Clark supporters: How Do You See Reagan" poll sealed the deal with me. People will do whatever is necessary to defame General Clark so I'll play the same game.

[BeyondGeography]

34. Wrong approach

I appreciate your frustration with some of the mindless anti-Clark flaming that goes on around here, but you shouldn't have voted if you didn't see the debate.

At any rate, I watched it and Dean DID lose.

[WillyT]

8. Damn, And I Assumed We Were All Honest Here, LOL !!!

:evilgrin:

[democratreformed]

12. Willy, you know better than that. LOL

O8)

[isbister]

14. Clark lost

by hiding in NH.

Of the people that actually showed up, Dean lost

[TrueAmerican]

49. Probably another 10 pt jump for Wes in NH by end of next week

Go Wes Clark!

[goodhue]

15. Dean clearly lost IMHO

But I can understand why Dean supporters might feel otherwise. Other two plausible answers would be Sharpton and Lieberman. Many (inlcuding Dean) were clearly uncomfortable with Sharpton's attack mode. I enjoyed it but I can see why some might vote him as loser for raising the incivility of the debate. Lieberman lost because he talked so darn much that he came across as the real bore that he is.

[tedoll78]

22. Sharpton basically played the race card.

That's all it boiled down to. He judged Dean's cabinet on their skin color rather than their qualities.

[wndycty]

31. Race card? It was the Black and Brown debate. . .

. . .I think the whole debate was supposed to race driven.

[Kathleen04]

35. True..

but I think that Sharpton could have brought up some real racial disparity issues instead of talking about how many minorities Dean had in his Vermont cabinet.

[blazinjason]

17. Sorry, but that Martin Luther King meets Trent Lott comment

was lame, used before and it fell flat. He knows it, and his staff knows it. Why else did they SHOVE him in Lester Holt's face on MSNBC?

[no name no slogan]

42. It worked once, but he should have not used it again

After Clark, Dean was the definate loser tonight. He's done very well in past debates, but this time around he seemed more concerned about being the frontrunner than addressing the issues.

OTOH, Sharpton was in his element-- maybe it had to do with the sponsorship, but he was on fire. And why is it that whenever a black person points out the hypocracy of whites, he gets castigated for "playing the race card"?

Kucinich was also spot on, too. I could tell from the introductions when he had that big grin on his face that he'd do very well tonight! The debate focused on the issues (NOT fundraising or polls), which is where he is strongest. The audience reaction proves that he will be a force to be reconned with in Iowa and onward.

[Hoppin_Mad]

21. The candidate who decided not to participate -eom-

[LWolf]

24. A few.

Lieberman. :puke:

Sharpton, Braun, & Dean

Stagnant...no loss, no gain: Gep, Kerry

Winners: Edwards, Kucinich

[Kathleen04]

26. My thoughts exactly.

:)

[Renew Deal]

38. That's exactly how I saw it.

I think Lieberman might not have lost that much. I also think Clark was better off not being there. It got ugly.

[Kathleen04]

41. Lieberman..

got overshadowed for the most part, but I really don't understand his 'illegal immigrants should get driver's licenses' stance.

[LWolf]

60. He was schizophrenic.

All that time on republican talking points...how we are afraid, ought to be afraid, touting homeland security bill, etc., then jumping in with preK-college ed (DK's baby), the driver's license thing, and even attempting, and failing, to co-opt DK's campaign slogan, "Fear Ends, Hope Begins," in his closing statements.

My take? A dino tossing out some "liberal" sounding stuff to try, too late, to convince us that there might be a real democrat in the bottom of the pile, if we just keep shoveling....

[Cheswick2.0]

29. Clark

looks like he's affraid to debate

[Rowdyboy]

37. Oh hell yeah!

Missing this debate really put the touch of death on Clark's chances! He's dead meat! All 12 people watching are going to unite as one and vote against him!

He's sooooo "affraid"

[in_cog_ni_to]

32. Hands down...Dean.

He looked horrible.

[nomaco-10]

36. CLARK was the clear loser tonight....

by not showing up. How long will Wes Clark's handlers sucessfully hide him out? The time is coming when he MUST be challenged by those that know he has been parading as a dem in rep lobbyist clothing. Gee, general, why don't you come out with some Lucy "I've got some splaining to do" rhetoric about your past voting record. It's way past time.

[Rowdyboy]

40. See answer 37 above

Sure Clark lost! This particular debate is really gonna seal the deal; it was memorable because....? He missed his chance to attack CMB and Al and Dennis and Joe and Dick and oh, ...wait...who cares?

The debates are meaningless mass-press conferences-an excellent opportunity to use your best sound bites and one-liners.

Is that really what you look for in your next president? According to most sources, George Bush won the debates of 2000 (I disagree). Even if so, does that make Bush the better president?

[nomaco-10]

44. "Debates are Meaningless"

Do you even realize how lame that sounds. Are you so taken in by the glint of shiney medals that you have lost sight of the real crux of the debates and the meaningful dialog that comes from them?
Debate is healthy and helps you keep track of your candidate's views, but since your guy chooses not to debate, I guess this idea must be foreign to you. Pity.

[ClarkGraham2004]

45. It's just something for you to bitch about

You obviously don't like Clark.

[nomaco-10]

46. I don't hate him....

I'm just scratching the surface of one General Wesley Clark and I'm not liking what I find. It may behoove you as well to do a little research on the general. Couldn't hurt could it?

[ClarkGraham2004]

47. Who says I haven't?

If you want to find out about him, go to his website.


www.clark04.com

[madaboutharry]

39. Well, I am glad to

see how much more civil things have gotten around here!

[shivaji]

51. Being classified a "minority" myself, I think Dean has...

not been proven to be a racist by a long shot, simply based on
the fact that out of his six (?) cabinet members none was black or
hispanic. Being a realist, I know that 98% of people in Vermont are
white, and chances of Dean finding competent and qualified candidates
amongst whites is 49 times greater or 4900% larger than finding a
minority candidate.

Now if Sharpton is implying that Dean cabinet should have included
a minority token candidate, that is absurd, racist and demagogic.

[Rowdyboy]

56. You mean that during Dean's eleven years as governor

as people came and went in those positions, Dean could not find one single minority that was worthy to be appointed to a cabinet post? Something like that would seem to be a springboard to running for higher electoral office in a small, vanilla-white northeastern state. A black appointee might have actually been in position to run for higher office.

But we'll never know, because Dean didn't put minorities in his cabinet.

[Clark Can WIN]

54. Where the hell was Trippi after the debate?

Good lord almighty, open mouth, insert other foot. I thought he had Dean on a gag order or a leash or something.

[retyred]

59. From what I hear

maybe he was the bus driver for the folks dean had in the audience to ask questions of.

From what I've seen and heard of the last three debates, Clark's looking smarter than rest by far simply by not being there.


retyred in fla
“Good-Night Paul, Wherever You Are”
So I read this book

[blm]

61. That's an easy one.

Howie "Rules don't apply to me" Dean.

He is SO much like Bush in his insincerity. Even smarmier in some ways.

[AntiCoup2K4]

62. So when Clark isn't an option to vote for in the polls....

..the Clark blogs are rigged to vote against Dean? Is that how it works??

Pathetic :eyes:

[Padraig18]

64. No other way to explain the inconsistent results.

Dean WON the 'who won?' poll... :shrug:

[Walt Starr]

65. Hey, that sounds familiar

:puffpiece:

[eissa]

66. Sharpton

Reminds everyone that he is incapable of speaking on any issue other than race, and when speaking on that topic does so in a non-engaging, attack-mode fashion. His one-liners are funny and he adds some comic relief, but that's about it.

I thought Dean did fine, considering all the attacks that come his way. I wasn't thrilled with his ask-the-audience-member-question ploy; he should have at least had a back-up just in case that stunt didn't work.

I was disappointed with all the attention Lieberman was getting to discuss all the * policies and stances he supports. I thought Kerry did well sticking to the issues, although it seemed to me that he didn't get much time. Kucinich was great! And thank you CMB!

[rucky]

67. I like the Dean & Sharpton category

that exchange was just plain damaging to everybody.