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JohnnyRingo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-09-04 11:35 PM
Original message
Dredd Scott = Roe Wade ?
I don't know if anyone else had heard this....It makes sense to me though.
The reference really puzzled me at the time.
_____________________________________________________________________

Some people seem to be a bit boggled by Bush's Dred Scott remark last night. It wasn't about racism or slavery, or just Bush's natural incoherence. Here's what Bush actually said:

If elected to another term, I promise that I will nominate Supreme Court Justices who will overturn Roe v. Wade.

Bush couldn't say that in plain language, because it would freak out every moderate swing voter in the country, but he can say it in code, to make sure that his base will turn out for him. Anti-choice advocates have been comparing Roe v. Wade with Dred Scott v. Sandford for some time now. There is a constant drumbeat on the religious right to compare the contemporary culture war over abortion with the 19th century fight over slavery, with the anti-choicers cast in the role of the abolitionists.

more:
http://fairshot.typepad.com/fairshot/2004/10/dred_scott_roe_.html

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murielm99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-09-04 11:39 PM
Response to Original message
1. Apparently, there is some display about the Dredd Scott
decision in a courthouse in St. Louis.

Kids all see it on a school field trips.

Is it possible that * took a side trip to that courthouse while he was in St. Louis, and that is why it was on his mind?

Someone from St. Louis clue us about this. I have never been to the courthouse there, just the airport.
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PermanentRevolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-10-04 12:11 AM
Response to Original message
2. Kerry should ready a better answer on abortion
I thought he faltered on his original response last night. He picked it up again once Bush opened up the "no exceptions" area of attack, but I didn't think his first statement would win over any of the moderates who disagree on abortion, but might be swayed if he puts the issue into terms they can accept.

I know what Kerry's position is. I respect his religious beliefs, although I myself am not bound by the Christian faith, and I think he's pushing the right track, but it needs refined more. You could tell from the reaction shot that the woman who asked the question wasn't satisfied.

Kerry's position is simple and easily understood, when presented in the right way. He is personally opposed to abortion, as taught by his religious upbringing, but knows that it is not the purpose of the government to force any one system of beliefs upon the nation as a whole.

This is bound to be one of his most vulnerable points in the next debate, so he needs to have a forceful and convincing response ready. Something like this. Imagine it in Kerry's voice:

"Few issues facing America today have the power to divide this country as quickly and drastically as that of abortion. And that’s understandable, because few issues revolve around such a profoundly important choice. I can’t imagine, can’t even come close to knowing the anguish of a young mother forced to make that heart-wrenching decision, knowing that her choice may well torment her to her last days on this planet. I can’t know, because I will never have to make that choice. I, like most of us, will never be put in a position where I must decide whether my unborn child will survive. But the gravity and importance of that decision is precisely why such choices must be left to the mother.

I don’t support abortion. I wish we lived in a world where no pregnancy was aborted because no pregnancy was unwanted. I wish we lived in a world where there were no single mothers living in poverty, forced to decide whether or not to bring a child into the world, only to watch helplessly as it starves. I wish we lived in a world where every child had a good home, a loving family, and a bright future. But we don’t live in that world, no matter how hard we wish it. However, there are steps we can take. Steps that, as your president, I will take, to ensure that the number of abortions performed continues to drop.

It starts with teaching abstinence. Absolutely, it does. But it can’t end with abstinence. It has to include education about contraception. It has to include birth control and planning. It has to include affordable health care for single mothers. We have to ensure that women who don’t want to become pregnant won’t become pregnant, and that those who do become pregnant can afford to be pregnant.

I understand there are very serious issues of faith at work. I have the utmost respect for those beliefs. I share those beliefs. I was raised a Catholic, and the lessons of my faith I carry with me always. But here in America, this great nation of ours, one truth is absolute. No matter what my feelings, no matter how strongly I believe in the teachings of my church and my faith, no matter how good and righteous my intentions may be, one truth is absolute. In this free and democratic nation of ours, this shining bastion of liberty and diversity, this grand experiment in a country ruled not by blood or title, but a nation of, by and for the people, in this great endeavor that we call these United States of America, one truth is absolute. None of us have the right to force our beliefs onto others. None of us have the right to impose our points of view on those who do not share them. None of us have the right to dictate our own religious doctrine upon those who follow a different path. That’s not what America is for, and that’s not what I’m for.

As president, I will work every day to end abortion. But we can’t do that with a law. We have to do it by working together to eliminate the causes of abortion. We have to eliminate poverty. We have to eliminate unwanted and unplanned pregnancies. We have to eliminate the kind of thinking that causes the wrong choices to be made. But we cannot eliminate the rights of women to make their own choices. America deserves better than that."

I think something crafted in that manner would stand a pretty good shot at swaying some of the genuine pro-lifers. The radical anti-choice faction won't be swayed no matter what, but if we can eat away some of the opposition on this issue, it'll benefit us.
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virgdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-10-04 12:15 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. Some of the points you make are very good...
Edited on Sun Oct-10-04 12:16 AM by virgdem
a little wordy, perhaps, but good nonetheless. Why don't you send this to the Kerry Campaign. They can take it and use it as they see fit. You are right, Kerry's answer needs some refinement.
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JohnnyRingo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-10-04 01:36 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. That seems pretty well put.....The abortion fence is tough to straddle
And the "pro-lifers" only respond to clearcut stances.

Thanks to Buxh, I think they are stronger and more determined than four years ago. Given the choice between corrupt government or abortion rights....They'll take Buxh every time. I don't recall Clinton facing such pressure in '96.

They now vote while wearing blinders.
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oddtext Donating Member (268 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-10-04 01:03 AM
Response to Original message
4. clearly code
as scalia stated in planned parenthood v. casey that that decision was a lost opportunity, a cowardly cave-in like dred scott that would be eternally condemned for its immorality. well, it hasn't worked out like that, so conservatives are ever more frustrated . . . and now they talk in code rather than in plain more offensive terms.
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KharmaTrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-10-04 01:43 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. This Is Their Slavery
Edited on Sun Oct-10-04 01:43 AM by IMRadioactive
First of all, Bunnypants is too dense to think that Dred Scott was just another NASCAR driver. Someone else put those words in his mouth for several purposes.

Listen to the fundies and they equate the abortion battle with that of slavery. They try to connect the bondage of blacks to those of zygotes and fetuses. Besides being demeaning to blacks and the real struggles they face, this is a way they can wrap themselves up with the flag and every wingnut clown who shoots up a reproductive health clinic thinks he's John Brown...and the rest of that flock agree. Eric Rudolph wasn't able to hide as long as he did on his "cunning".

One commentator also mentioned the significance Dred Scott has to some of the Missouri fundies. Since I'm not from that planet, I don't see the association.

In the black is white absolute world of the fundie self-flagelation, they somehow feel that since we all don't roll over and let them create a theocracy, they are being persecuted...just like slaves. Every so often I'll hear one of these cretins pop up on Washington Journal. It's these people Bunnypants was pandering to.

Again, I've never seen a campaign where an incumbent so late in a contest has to keep pandering to his base...as if he's not really sure it's there.
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DeepModem Mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-10-04 03:14 AM
Response to Original message
7. kick
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