Is the proBush feeling similar to the proClinton feeling?

[Onlooker]

Remember during the whole Whitewater investigation feeling incredibly anger at the right-wing for their witchhunt against Clinton? Remember how the more the right-wing attacked, the more proClinton we became? As far as I'm concerned, by the end of the Whitewater investigation, Clinton could do no wrong. It was Clinton, representing the likes of me, versus a sleazy right-wing machine that would stop at nothing.

Now, do you think the right-wing feels about Bush like we felt about Clinton? Bush's popularity is not based on rational analysis (and unlike Clinton, I don't think it could be). We're up against a very sensitive and emotionally involved Republican Party, Evangelical religious movement, and radical right. Is there any way to get these people to be less sensitive and more fair-minded when comparing the candidates?

[Catch22Dem]

1. Hard to say

I was never embarrassed of Clinton. I thought he was a great president who made the same mistake any of us could have made (and some of us have made.)

I think, deep down, proBush people are a bit embarrassed that the chimp is all they have.

[Barney Rocks]

3. You are so right!

I would love to see statistics on it--but I bet the majority of people have done EXACTLY what Clinton did.

Come on and admit it--sex on the job--with a subordinate. A few lies to cover it up.... = standard operating procedure.

I bet nearly everyone has done it. I never have done it on the job myself--but I once caught two people doing it in my place of business. (She was his boss and mine as well--hee hee hee). This happens every single day in America. I can't stand people being so sanctimonious about it.

[Bluebear]

2. Not even close for me....

We recognized Clinton's foibles, we acknowledged his mistakes. We also thought it did not rise to the level of impeachment. The Bushistas worship their man, and I don't use the verb lightly. If he were caught with an intern I swear they would ascribe it to some miraculous angel taking the form of a human to fulfill his needs. It's like he has some kind of spell on them.

[teach1st]

4. At the time I stopped supporting Clinton...

I acknowledge all his positives. But I thought his lie to the nation was over the top. Many of my friends who had previously supported him, felt the same way. We didn't feel he should have been impeached, though.

Lies from the top don't seem to faze some.

[Onlooker]

5. The point of this post is about emotions not about Clinton!

Of course, there are a zillion reasons one can defend Clinton over Bush, but I do think the emotional attachment the Republicans feel for Bush is similar to that the Democrats had for Clinton. I think to some extent our antiBush feeling has driven Republicans to Bush, as Republican antiClinton feeling drove us to Clinton. Even if Clinton had been a lousy president, I think a lot of us would have still defended him against the witch hunt.

[teach1st]

7. For a good article highlighting the conrtast

Between Democratic support and Republican support in general:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2004/10/10/RVG1T9289T1.DTL

San Francisco
Theodore Roszak
Sunday, October 10, 2004


"But what if both sides are wrong about how much can be achieved by shocking revelations on film or in print? What if Bush's political base never needed to be lied to? That might explain why, despite "Fahrenheit 9/11" and all the other enraged documentaries (the best of which, incidentally, is "Hijacking Catastrophe" by the Media Education Foundation), the polls keep reflecting strong popular support for Bush's "leadership" and why he continues to find cheering crowds, especially at military bases where troops give their commander-in-chief the big "hoo-ah." These people aren't deceived. They know exactly what Bush is up to -- and it's OK with them.

And here we have the root cause of polarization, the difference that has set political left and right in America at each other's throats. There is a fundamental moral asymmetry between left and right in the United States. Vietnam-era liberals such as me suffered through the anguish of losing faith in their party and turning against it. The crowds that demonstrated in the streets of Chicago in 1968 weren't irate conservatives; they were conscience- stricken liberals who were prepared to sacrifice an election victory -- and with it Lyndon Johnson's Great Society agenda -- on an issue of principle.

Looking back, Republicans might want to thank people like the young John Kerry and the Vietnam Veterans for Peace. Their opposition cost the Democratic Party dearly and launched the country toward the great conservative backlash of the Ronald Reagan presidency. For that matter, liberals were doing electoral favors for the GOP long before Vietnam.

......

Here's what I think most infuriates liberals. They are up against a Republican opposition that has shown no comparable willingness to risk party unity on a matter of conscience -- nothing that compares to the sacrifice liberals were willing to make over civil rights and Vietnam. Republicans have had no difficulty swallowing episodes like McCarthyism and Watergate. Indeed, the relentless effort to impeach Bill Clinton was largely retaliation for what conservatives still see as the "persecution" of poor Richard Nixon. Others (like Ann Coulter) are now toiling to rehabilitate Joe McCarthy, including his charge that liberals are traitors. And Ronald Reagan went to his grave this year all but officially pardoned by Republicans for Iran-Contra, the most blatant violation of constitutional government in American history. "

[greyXstar]

6. Democrats criticized Clinton when he made mistakes

and we knew that the Whitewater thing was shit. The proBush feeling is based on closing your eyes and sticking your fingers in your ears, going "la la laaa...I'm not listening"

[Bryan]

8. I don't think it is the same

Clinton's appeal was real, and it spread across partisan lines. His personality and unpretentious intellect were inviting and comforting, and he was able to peel off voters on the left and the right who disagreed with him as often as not.

* supporters, however, are mainly invested in issues-"traditional values", low taxes, a bellicose national defense-and thus Rove and Hughes sold them a mythical Bush that would fit their prejudices: a godly, easygoing family man off the job but a hardnosed executive with rock-hard moral certitude when on it. As events put the lie to this myth, his support dwindles down to the bedrock constituency, and even they are struggling mightily against cognitive dissonance.

[secular_warrior]

9. I think the pro Bush backlash is much stronger and detached from reality

than the Clinton backlash.

People supported Clinton because his enemies were attacking his personal shortcomings. He shouldn't have done what he did, even with a consenting subordinate (didn't send a good example to other women working in the WH), but most people understand that type of thing happens all the time, and it was a personal shortcoming - not malice.

On the other hand Bush is lying about war, using patriotism and 9-11 to institute a radical neoconservative agenda. What Bush is doing is a billion times worse than what Clinton did. Bush and his cronies are malicious, evil people with an evil agenda. They have blood on their hands.

Yet the Bush supporters are more fervernt and detached from the reality of what he is doing. Why? Because Bush has allied himself with the base (mostly the fundie nuts) of his party, who have greater emotional stake in the game. Also, because Bush is using 9-11/terrorism as scare tactic. Clinton on the other hand, was a centrist. He never used war or terror attacks to fear monger and question anyone's patriotism. Clinton is a patriot. Bush is a nationalist. That is the key difference between the parties, even when we have a non-ideological centrist in there.

[Dark Jedi]

10. Not Alike at All (pro-Bush vs. pro-Clinton)

I do not think the pro-Bush people can be fair-minded. They are moonies (via Pat Robertson/Jerry Falwell) without even realizing it. I read this last night and found it disturbing.

http://www.larouchepub.com/other/2002/2941moonies.html