If Bush tries to label Kerry a Liberal in the third debate

[Spinzonner]

Then Kerry shoud respond that if he was a liberal he would accept the label proudly, but he isn't.

And then proceed to describe how someone who labelled himself a 'Compassionate Conservative' is neither compassionate or conservative in his policies.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

1. He could remind folks it was liberals

who gave us stuff like safe food, the eight hour day, Medicare, etc, etc.

[TwilightZone]

4. I like this idea.

It could be expanded to include names, ex. "Mr. President, (name) was a liberal. He gave us (program)." repeated a few times with some well-chosen liberals and ideals.

That ought to shut Bush up. Or get him flustered.

[kokomo]

10. Who gave us the Declaration of Independence & the Constitution!

The conservative TORY majority wanted to sing "God Save the King!"

[unfrigginreal]

2. Kerry: "I can throw labels around to Mr. President"

"I can even think of one for you that begins with L, but Liberals aren't name callers."

[USA_1]

3. Kerry = moderate

I believe it was the Orlando Sentinel that ran an article which proved that Mr Kerry's record is one of moderation. There is nothing in the Congressional Record to show that he is a liberal at all.

[CityHall]

5. "You're 0 for 2"

He already used the "compassionate conservative" line in the town hall debate.

[babylonsister]

8. And what the hell is wrong with liberals?

The repugs have made this a dirty word; maybe it's the definition they've brainwashed people with that needs adjusting.

[TwilightZone]

12. I think it started with Reagan.

If memory serves, he managed to paint Mondale as a liberal, and the media and the Republicans have made it a dirty word pretty much ever since.

So, we're fighting about 20 years of negativity.

[the_outsider]

14. exactly.. that's the trap

you cannot undo 20 years of negativity in a minute. It'a no-win situation.

[ZombieNixon]

17. Reagan undid 20 years

of "conservative" being a dirty word. Remember Barry Goldwater in '64? Reagan made "conservative" acceptable again in '84. Now it's time for us to undo 20 years of negativity again and make "liberal" acceptable in 2004!

[evilqueen]

29. yeah, really...

"conservative?"
what the hell are they conserving, their own asses?

[David Dunham]

6. Kerry should call Bush a right-wing reactionary.

[ruggerson]

21. exactly n/t

[RafterMan]

37. "Reactionary"

is too tainted by Communist overuse.

"Radical" is good.

[Cha]

7. Kerry had a really good response to bush

in the last "debate" on his calling him a Liberal(as if..that's a dirty word.)

"But when Bush denigrated his opponent as a liberal Kerry was ready. “The president is just trying to scare everybody here by throwing labels around. I mean ‘compassionate conservative?’ What does that mean? Cutting 500,000 kids from after school programmes? Cutting 365,000 kids from health care? Running up the biggest deficits in history?“

[LiberalAndProud]

9. Isn't it interesting that

a liberal does not have to qualify with an preceding adjective "COMPASSIONATE"; a liberal is compassionate by definition?

[babylonsister]

20. Interesting that that is true but works against liberals. n/t

[yodermon]

27. BINGO

Thanks for affirming my exact thoughts on this phrase.. you did so almost verbatim. :)

[the_outsider]

11. I agree * will try it again

The word liberal should be defended with pride IMO. Time to restore the good words from right-wing spins. But how that could be done in a minute beats me.

[KharmaTrain]

13. Say It Loudly...It's The True Face Of Compassion

Repugnicans like to throw around words rooted in the nexxus of Liberal...things like Liberty and Liberatarian.

While I consider myself a Progressive, I've always considered being called a Liberal as an acknowledgement of my intelligence and compassion. It's a badge I wear proudly and I'm sure others here feel very much the same way. It's time this label is turned from a negative to a very big positive.

Wingnuts use words like weapons...and this one is their "bread & butter". How ironic as the manchild attempted to creating a parallel universe of this with his "Compassionate Conservative" crap. No man with true compassion would have rushed to war with such haste and outright pleasure. People know Kerry would use compassion...the ability to reason and take a realistic view of things...and make decissions based on common good, not self interests.

We've come a long way in the past two years in redefining the future of the Democratic party...bringing together a new and dynamic coalition that has never been more united. It's time we redefined the lexicon of the political landscape; taking back the language and restoring Liberal to its proper place representing freedom and democracy.

[The Traveler]

15. Wes Clark didn't shrink from that term

Why should Kerry? "Liberal" ... I wanna see the honor of that word reclaimed.

I would not insult my conservative friends by calling Bush conservative. He is a freaking Right Wing Radical. Frankly, I think he's a genuine fascist.

[gcomeau]

16. Kerry should ask him if he's flip-flopping on saying he's a flip-flopper.

"I'm a little confused Mr. President. You've spent months trying to convince everyone in the country that I'm a flip-flopper. That I blow in the political wind and vote however popular opinion of the time dictates... and all of a sudden now I'm hearing you say that I have the MOST *CONSISTENT* voting record of any liberal in the entire United States Senate.

Are you flip-flopping on calling me a flip-flopper Mr. President? I mean really, which claim is it that you want to run with? That I'm too inconsistent or that I'm too consistent? Because really, at this point you're arguing against your *own* campaign statements and I'm left feeling that there's not a whole lot for me to do in this debate!"

-Grant

[A Simple Game]

24. Good idea

I hadn't thought of that.

[karlrschneider]

18. Well, one antonym of "liberal" (maybe use "opposite" for freepers) is

"greedy." Or "stingy."

[chelsea0011]

19. Then Kerry should label Bush an effin' mass murderer

[BlueInRed]

22. I think you go to substance, a modified version of Dean's argument

During his campaign, Dean used to say, "If X is liberal, then I'm a liberal". I think Kerry can modify that idea to focus on substance, which the overwhelming number of Americans agree with Kerry on. So, my idea is Kerry would say:

"Bush thinks you're liberal if you're for:

• a clean environment
  
• health care for all Americans, not just the rich
  
• balancing the budget and lowering the deficit
  
• choosing people over big insurance companies, HMOs, drug companies, and energy companies
  
• an energy policy that recognizes we'll run out of oil someday
  
• a social security lockbox that protects your contributions to your own retirement
  
• working with other countries instead of telling them to shove off, no thanks, America will go it alone
  
• judges who accurately interpret the law instead of right wing activist judges who want to rewrite the Constitution
  
• protecting an individual's right to run their own personal life (ie, Bush wants to change the Constitution so the govt can make your choices for you)
  
• expecting the rich to pay their fair share of taxes
  
• rejecting corporate welfare"

Then Kerry should say,
"Folks, these are common sense ideas and what I believe in. The Bush / DeLay extreme right wing crowd reject these common sense ideas."

and

"The Bush / DeLay crowd is so extreme that they consider even moderate Republicans to be liberals. In Bush World, anyone who's not a right wing extremist is a liberal"

I think this would focus people on the policies that everyone right of center agrees on and would show that Bush is actually the extremist out of touch with mainstream values.

Also, I think it's time to start raising the specter of Tom DeLay as the great conservative bogeyman in the tradition of Newt Gingrich and tying Bush to all the horrible things DeLay has done. If Bush wants labels, lets give him a big old extreme right wing, Newt Gingrich style label.

[Longgrain]

23. Define Liberal

Kerry should simply give bush the dictionary definition of
liberal, including it's roots, saying it's from the Latin
'liberalis' meaning FREE based on the Old English 'leodan'
meaning to GROW UP or TO RISE. (as a writer I interested in
word origins)
Adding: "I don't know any American who would not be proud
to call themselves 'free' or 'growing'."
Shrub will then spend the rest of the debate 'thinking' of
words he knows the meaning for, or wasting his time verbally
dissecting words to prove he's a smart, folksy fellah just
like Kerry too. (Maybe he could give us the root word for
'wood'.)
Either way, slaps some grape jelly on the guy, because he's
toast.:-) :-) :-) 

[nolabels]

28. Hello Longgrain , welcome to DU

On edit: Don't mind me,I may be stupid and can't spell but I least I know it :silly:

[Oak2004]

25. I disagree, somewhat

I absolutely agree that the word "liberal" needs to be reclaimed. But I would not try to reclaim it in the middle of a close election. I'd focus entirely on what it takes to win the election (which includes not getting bogged down in any of Karl Rove's name games).

I'd reclaim it afterward, when you can bet the slimy little usurpers of my Republican Party will start flinging the word "liberal" around as if it were doggie poo.

(And, yeah, they are against everything the dictionary definition and etymological roots of the word "liberal" denotes or suggests).

[LiberalAndProud]

26. Good advice

You are right, of course. We will not erase the Pavlovian response that the term "liberal" invokes when spoken in the presence of Dittoheads who live in the Savage Nation within the confines of one debate. (heavy sigh)

[mahina]

30. Reframe as a Progressive

and tell the world what a fake 'conservative' * is.
Ballooned federal programs and federal spending
sticking his nose in state's damn business
*'s war on our constitution
etc, you know the facts.

[sunnybrook]

36. Opposition would LOVE to have this debate

I agree that you have to be focused on winning the election. I consider myself a liberal and I know that it's a good thing, but unfortunately the "label" has been purposely distorted and defamed to the point that many of the independent voters that Kerry is appealing to would be turned off by him defending it, even evoking Truman, Kennedy, FDR, etc... the right wing has, unfortunately, poisioned the definition of this word and it is unrealistic to expect a presidential candidate to defend the word. Rather have him defend the ideals...win the election! Republicans would love a chance to debate liberalism.

[evilqueen]

31. Poem : so they call me a liberal

so they call me a "Liberal"
i don't believe in their lies
i don't believe that "family"
gives men the power to tyrannize

i don't believe that money
will trickle down from the rich
i don't believe in the greedy
i know they think i'm a bitch

i don't believe homosexuals
pose a threat to anyone
i don't believe that keeping quiet
is going to help right the wrong

i don't think your religion
stands up to my scrutiny
a long history of oppression
is right there for all to see

i don't believe in racism
things are never black or white
i don't believe in sexism
it's not your god-given right

so they call me a "Liberal"
am i supposed to feel shame?
i don't believe in your labels
but i'll be proud of that name


(c)2004 Aine MacDermot (AKA evilqueen hehe)
http://www.dedanaan.com/filiochta/

Or should I have posted it in it's own thread?

[Bongo Prophet]

33. I like that, evilqueen

Like it a lot.
:toast:

[evilqueen]

35. :) thanks n/t

[Dcitizen]

32. Kerry is the best debater

because Kerry speaks for the rightous causes,
so I believe he will win by thousands ways

[Strawman]

34. Kerry will fling this argument away like the turd that it is

Basically by saying what he said in the last debate. The President can't defend his record, so he has to resort to labeling me. Here's what I'm for and here's why that makes sense.

If this liberal labeling strategy is the basic argument they're collapsing down to, I think that's a pretty telling sign of desperation. Kerry just needs to stay on the offensive in these debates.

[GiovanniC]

38. "I Know That My Opponent Has Some... Difficulties... With WORDS."

So I will recite the definition of liberal to him:

'Not limited to or by established, traditional, orthodox, or authoritarian attitudes, views, or dogmas; free from bigotry.

Favoring proposals for reform, open to new ideas for progress, and tolerant of the ideas and behavior of others; broad-minded.'

Now, Mister President... I'll have to concede this point to you. I AM a liberal. And the fact that you think it's an insult to say that someone is, for example, free from bigotry or open to new ideas for progress simply betrays the stubborn closed-mindedness that has become so familiar to all of us over the past four years."

[PATRICK]

39. One line of argument he won't use

maybe because he really doesn't want to divide people BUT

America can be said to have begun as a freedom experiment, a democratic experiment, a libertarian experiment, as a liberal or liberating experiment in rights and liberty for all, but it can hardly be said to have been a Conservative experiment,an elitist experiment, a right wing experiment, a corporate business experiment or even a republic of which the world has had many examples.

Some people who deride liberalism as a word and seek to limit democracy and change libertarianism to an exclusive property to harm the people's chosen American government are not an experiment either. In the past it has been called reactionary, an attempt to drive back to the past, to seek the comfort of surrendered liberty, less responsibility, fewer civil rights and a restoration of tyranny by the "right" kind of people.

The fruits of the one are many: peace prosperity, shared responsibility, equal opportunity and equal rights. Progress in the human condition. Compassion. Zeal for common justice.

The fruits of the other are spitefulness, denial of rights,warring divisions, destruction of peace, prosperity and a blighted progress in human misery exploited constantly by a parasitical ruling class. Their words and actions are the same, the results are the same, the types of people are the same as they ever have been. They have nothing new to offer in a rapidly changing age except shopworn lies and shallow promises. A surfeit of greedy a$$holes.

And as ever the result is loss of liberty, employment and suddenly finding yourself on an ignorant battlefield facing a sucker from some other clone nation globalized into this weary absurdity.

Well, I went to town on this to make up for its current impracticality. Kerry would feel constrained not to throw down that gauntlet right now and wound conservative feelings, who at their best represent only the most boring and blinkered fringe of American values.