Why the RW consistently trumps the Left with its Rove-inspired tactics

[prolesunited]

When does virtue become a liability? When it is constantly used as a weapon against you.

Here's the problem as I see it. The RW has a win-at-all-costs mentality. It doesn't matter how you win — lie, cheat, steal — as long as your guy wins. It is an ends justify the means strategy taken to the extreme.

However, the left always allows its sense of justice and fair play get in the way. It's not enough to win. We want to win fairly, and the means are just as important as the outcome.

This plays out on both a small and large scale. For example, we have seen a number of stories about Kerry signs being stolen and vandalized. The other day, someone posted something about a Bush-Cheney sign being vandalized and there was some gloating. Then, of course, we had the obligatory posts about how that's not right and we shouldn't be doing what we complain about others doing.

On a larger scale, Sinclair Broadcasting's planned anti-Kerry smear comes to mind. CBS and Rather have been trying to bring the truth to the light, which happens to be unfavorable to Bush. The RW attacks and they decide to pull a NEWS story about Iraq because it would be influential piece airing close to the election.

Now, Sinclair has absolutely no qualms about running a hatchet job on Kerry that is a pure PROPAGANDA piece created by a RW shill. Trumped once again!


Does anyone else see this as a pattern and consistent problem?
More importantly, what's the solution? Do we join them in the gutter or do we play fair and lose?

[Skittles]

1. the right wing has no conscience

that's why dirty tricks come so naturally for them. It's a quandary - how to beat them without being LIKE THEM.

[shaolinmonkey]

2. That is the fundamental question. It really bothers me that we

have to ask it. I've always been a fan of the truth, the facts, etc. Truth is beauty, beauty is truth. However, there is no prize for second place in this fight. Sadly, I think we just need to be louder, more on-message, and tenacious.

Think Carville, everybody. That's today's mantra:

"I am James Carville,
I am strong.
I am tenacious.
The truth shall set you free."

How's that?

[ewagner]

3. Reminds me of a story

my Father used to tell about his experiences in WWII. He talked about the guard dogs used to guard military installations in the Pacific Theatre where he was. The dogs were trained to be vicious and they did their job against infiltrators very well. After the war was over, the dogs had to be destroyed because they were unfit for reintegration into a now civil society.

In a large sense, we need those attack dogs to fight the pure ruthlessness of the Republican machine, but our values (because that's what Democrats are all about:VALUES!)won't allow us carry out an administration based on that kind of behavior.

This campaign is the worst I have ever seen. I think it's unparalleled in it's viciousness, lying and dirty tricks. I'm not sure we can go into a "knife fight" with the Republicans armed with only our moral superiority.

It's a dilema for which there is no morally acceptable answer.

[Arancaytar]

4. The problem is,

Having once lost moral high ground by sinking to their level, could we regain it afterwards? Could we beat them with their own weapons and succeed? Tolkien would disagree, you know.

It's a horrible dilemma, because viciousness seems to win the day. If you aren't, you lose, if you are, you become that which you fight. The guy who comes on top is bad. It can't always have been this way, why should it be so now?

[ewagner]

8. Maybe a devil's bargain

is necessary.

There should perhaps be those among us who are designated as attack dogs who will sit quietly in the shadows after the campaigns are over. It's sort of a bifrucated approach which I am not sure is any more moral at all.

You're absolutely right of course....and so was Tolkien...I just don't know how to prevent being changed by it.

[Arancaytar]

9. 'Attack dogs'...

Who we then 'destroy' and quietly and conveniently wash our hands of? :P

Anything if it helps, but: "Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?" If we replace */RNC/NWO, who will be left to defeat us? ;)

[ewagner]

11. re: "who will be left to defeat us?"

I hang my head in shame because I, like so many others on this board, honestly believed that we had defeated all the evils of the world when Viet Nam ended and when Nixon resigned. We came off the streets and started carving out our share of the good life that America offers.

I (we) were wrong. The evil of Nixon and his ilk wasn't defeated, it just went underground and resurfaced in all it's ugliness in Dubya's administration.

The lesson?

The fight for justice will never end. It requires eternal vigilence. I'm trying to instill this into my son upon whom, with others, the responsibility will ultimately fall.

[sherilocks]

6. Reminds me of my first dog, Bonnie,

a german shepard trained to jump on incendiary devices and put them out. We adopted her from the SPCA and she was gentle, but no one could light a cigarette in front of her.

I hope that doesn't make me the oldest DUer. Of course, Bonnie was very old when we adopted her. :)

[sendero]

5. I've been saying...

.... something about like this since the day I got here. You cannot win a street fight playing by Queensbury rules.

Here is a recent example - the Bush* wire. I'm not 100% convinced he is wearing one, but there is a lot of evidence that he is. Believe me, if the shoe were on the other foot, the Reps would not hesitate to proclaim foul from the rooftops.

But even here, lots of folks "aren't sure" and think we should concentrate "on the issues".

It's like they've been in a coma for 20 years. The electorate cannot understand the issues, they are more interested in the scandals. The electorate needs entertainment value in their news. What could be more entertaining than "the president can't handle a one-on-one debate". The Reps have been given an opportunity to prove otherwise, they have declined to do so.

I don't think Kerry himself should trumpet this, but his campaign should because the idea that Bush* is wearing a wire is not only cheating it is 100% believable. And trust me, the right wing smear mongers' bottom line is "can we make a substantial portion of the voters believe this?", not "is this true?".

How do you explain the millions of Americans who clearly vote against their own interest? The right wing attack machine is effective, it is as simple as that.

Kerry is doing well, but with the lies arrayed against him we cannot be complacent. Failing to capitalize on silver-platter situations like the Bush* wire would be insanely stupid.

[kaitykaity]

7. Not a problem. We are BETTER than they are.

We a smarter, more compassionate, more egalitarian,
more sane.

Those things win out in the end eventually. Every
regime patterned on their tactics has eventually
crashed and burned.

[DancingBear]

10. A LONG time ago I posted something re: this subject

My contention was then, and is now, that The Untouchables mantra holds:

They send one of yours to the hospital, you send one of theirs to the morgue.

The idea of being the fair and noble challenger is foolhardy, viewed in the context of the election cycle. Note here that I am not saying we need to become what we abhor, but we need to take on the shit we are being covered in and fling in back. Hard. We have been defined in an un-favorable light, and the Democratic Party (important: NOT Kerry - he needs to stay above the fray) must play eye for an eye. They needn't be immoral, they needn't be dishonest, but they must be in the forefront of the fight.

To think that we can un-do 25 years of Republican strategizing, demonizing, etc. without attacking and destroying said perceptions is not credible.

Dean was right on the button with this one.

P.S. How ya feelin'? :) :)

[MatrixEscape]

12. I don't see how becoming ...

like one's opponant is the way to win. Nor is it desirable. If you become like them, what is the sense of opposing them?

Some quotes that may help:

Mahatma Gandhi:

"When I despair...I remember that all through history, the way of truth and love has always won. There have been murderers and tyrants, and for a time they can seem invincible. But in the end they always fall. Think of it ... always."

"My religion is Truth, my practice is non-cooperation with evil."

"Mental violence has no potency and injures only the person whose thoughts are violent. It is otherwise with mental non-violence. It has potency which the world does not yet know."

"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win."

Martin Luther King Jr.

"When you are right you cannot be too radical; when you are wrong, you cannot be too conservative."

"Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity."

"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."


"Never forget that everything Hitler did in Germany was legal."

"Hatred paralyses life; love releases it. Hatred confuses life; love harmonizes it. Hatred darkens life; love illuminates it."

Thomas Jefferson:

"It is error alone which needs the support of government. Truth can stand by itself."

"The will of the people is the only legitimate foundation of any government, and to protect its free expression should be our first object."

"I have no fear but that the result of our experiment will be that men may be trusted to govern themselves without a master. Could the contrary of this be proved I should conclude either that there is no God, or that He is a malevolent Being."

"Bonaparte was a lion in the field only. In civil life, a cold-blooded, calculating, unprincipled usurper, without a virtue; no statesman, knowing nothing of commerce, political economy, or civil government, and supplying ignorance by bold presumption."

"In every country and every age, the priest had been hostile to Liberty."

"What country can preserve its liberties if its rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance."

"Let this be the distinctive mark of an American that in cases of commotion, he enlists himself under no man's banner, inquires for no man's name, but repairs to the standard of the laws. Do this, and you need never fear anarchy or tyranny. Your government will be perpetual."

"It is more dangerous that even a guilty person should be punished without the forms of law than that he should escape."

"The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods, or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg."

"In matters of power let no more be heard of the confidence in man but bind them down from mischief by the chains of the constitution."

"The republican is the only form of government which is not eternally at open or secret war with the rights of mankind."

"The spirit of resistance to government is so valuable on certain occasions that I wish it to be always kept alive. It will often be exercised when wrong, but better so than not to be exercised at all."

"Does the government fear us? Or do we fear the government? When the people fear the government, tyranny has found victory. The federal government is our servant, not our master!"

"Unlike those nations whose rulers use their country's resources to seek conquests, to carry on warring contests with one another, and consequently plunge their people into debt and devastation, free societies are organized for the happiness and prosperity of their people, and this is best pursued in a state of peace."

"A Bill of Rights is what the people are entitled to against every government on earth, general or particular; and what no just government should refuse, or rest on inferences."

"Banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies."

[prolesunited]

14. Those are the inspirational words I try to keep in mind

I guess I'm having a crisis of faith of sorts.

[pretzel4gore]

13. 'nothing fail like success when working for the devil'

lol! That's the bushloving idiots biggest problem....hahaha. Like many people are beginning to notice, the left, cuz it takes everybodys' interest to heart, CANNOT LOSE no matter what happens with bushinc! (as a misanthropist, i kinda like bushinc .... the sheer hypocrisy, the unadorned depravity of it all, and the squeaky clean mobknobs who overlook the 800 pound devils dancing around their livingrooms!)
hahaha....
(mind you i haven't got any family etc)

[w4rma]

15. They own most of the mics and Dems often don't get coordinated

to counter.

[prolesunited]

16. I agree that media control is part of the problem

But I'm talking about a level of viscousness that the left is so reluctant to employ.