accidental discussion/argument with a Bush supporter...

[Lerkfish]

This weekend My wife, six year old son and I were staying in a hotel on the night of last friday's debate. Since my son goes to bed at 8:30, and the room was just a double room, if I wanted to watch the debate, I had to go down to the lobby. So, at first, I was the only person there watching it. Although I had to refrain from yelling at the TV, like I do at home, all was fine, until an older couple came in to watch the last 2 minutes of the debate.
They had been drinking, and had a bottle of wine with them.
They asked me how the debate went, and not knowing their politics, I told them that my take on it would be very biased (without stating to which side it would be biased) The guy kept pressing me for a run-down, so I said my most noncommittal take would be that Bush did not melt like the first debate, but his answers did not contain a lot of substance nor did they directly address some of the questions. I then said Kerry did repeat himself a couple of times, but made more of an effort to address questions with plans, etc. (still biased, I know, but that's as close to non-biased as I could be).
They started off saying "Yeah, well Kerry definitely won the first debate" (so I'm thinking they might be dems. "But Cheney killed Edwards in the veep debate".
(against my better judgement) "But most of what Cheney said was factually inaccurate.
"name something"
"when Cheney chided Edwards about the 90% coalition casualties figure"\
"What about the Iraqis...don't you care about the Iraqis fighting for their own freedom?" (he's starting to get surly at this point, but I figure what the heck, so we keep talking)
later he says "But its in our own interests to keep Iraq instable "
"What?" I said, "Why would it be in our interest to increase instability?"
"Because if its unstable, then we can install our own regime (yes, he actually said "regime") that would be more friendly to the US"
At that point, I lost it because I stood up and said "You just said the Iraqis want freedom, yet you then say we needed to make them instable to install our own govt. there. That's not freedom, or democracy...that's puppetry!"

I have to admit, I raised my voice on that last one, and stormed off...
Thereafter, beyond rational coincidence, we kept running into them the rest of the weekend, and they never looked at me...heh.

anyways, the interesting thing to take out of this is that even that couple, which had drunk the koolaid on Iraq, felt that Kerry definitely won the first debate.

[molly]

1. Maybe you made a difference?

the reason that they would not look at you was because they were ashamed.

[Lerkfish]

6. that'd be great but I don't think so....

their minds seemed pretty much like concrete: all mixed and set rock hard.

[auburngrad82]

2. Didn't we already try a puppet government in Iraq when we insalled Hussein

I seem to remember that among the many terrible dictators that were installed at least in part by the CIA is Hussein in Iraq. Also, Noreiga and Qaddafi.

[Heyo]

3. Saddam

Pretty much installed himself.

[K8-EEE]

4. Good For You - I'm Sick Of These Assholes

Let him go over there and deal with the "instablity" he thinks is so wonderful, and let him pay for this damned war.

[Lerkfish]

8. exactly...I substited "instability" for "senseless deaths" when he said it

n/t

[arewenotdemo]

9. That would be justice

Send over only the ****ers that are for this abomination and let the Iraqis pick em off one by one.

[Cats Against Frist]

5. This is a perfect example of something I've said all along

While the "higher ups" in the GOP spend a huge part of their time spinning their hate, supremacism, racism, xenophobia, Mammon worship and quest for world domination into mainstream friendly sound bites, an elementary survey of their supporters reveals something much different. THEY ARE NOT AFRAID TO ADMIT THESE THINGS. You can see it over at "Pee & Butt Lick," and if you've spent any time in the "heartland," or listening to conservative callers on Washington Journal -- this is no secret.

I grew up around this -- and in the small towns, people aren't afraid to say -- "we have to protect Israel," "we need to steal their oil," or "kill all the towel heads." These are the "kitchen table" issues of the "core 'murican values" crowd. So, the man's quote that you shared with us is par for the course. I know it's unbelievable to believe anyone would act like this, but remember -- the GOP gets its main constituency from three groups: the ignorant, those who are fearful of "the other" & rapture-ready whackjobs. If it was unbelievable that their constituency would say these things -- they'd be liberals, or Democrats.

So, no, it doesn't surprise me that Bush supporters would say such a thing. They aren't even aware of international law, soveriegnty, treaties, the history of the U.S. and multinational oil companies in the Mid-East -- or any history, for that matter. And if they knew, they probably wouldn't give a shit.

[Lerkfish]

7. yes, I agree...they aren't afraid to admit the lust for power/control...

I think it makes for a very confusing mindset, though. On the one hand, viscerally, they understand the thrust of the PNAC doctrine, and approve of it, but on the other hand, they have to digest the political pablum distributed like mana by all the repug distribution stations, even though its completely contradictory.

Over a long period of time...what does that do the psyche? I mean, these people will still be this way, even after Kerry becomes prez....its like having half the country as a mob of zombies. Even if you dethrone their king, they're still wandering around trying to eat people's brains.

ok, that's enough mixed metaphors for one post! LOL!