I want a divorce...

[bain_sidhe]

from the Clark supporters starting all these race/gotcha threads! Where do I file for that? And can I get alimony, or just pet support?

Sorry, but this is just a ridiculous thing to be starting sixteen zillion threads about. Yes, minority participation in our society is important, but JEEBUS CRISCO! Enough already.

:thumbsdown: :thumbsdown: :thumbsdown: :thumbsdown: :thumbsdown: :thumbsdown: :thumbsdown: :thumbsdown: :thumbsdown: :thumbsdown: :thumbsdown: :thumbsdown: :thumbsdown: :thumbsdown: :thumbsdown: :thumbsdown: :thumbsdown: :thumbsdown: :thumbsdown: :thumbsdown: :thumbsdown: :thumbsdown: :thumbsdown: :thumbsdown: :thumbsdown: :thumbsdown: :thumbsdown: :thumbsdown: :thumbsdown: :thumbsdown: :thumbsdown: :thumbsdown: :thumbsdown: :thumbsdown: :thumbsdown:

[BurtWorm]

1. Bless you!

You are a gentleperson and a scholar. And not at all a shark smelling blood in the water.

[bain_sidhe]

4. So what about that alimony?

Just askin'

[BurtWorm]

5. I'd grant you a nice healthy settlement, if I were judge.

;)

[slinkerwink]

2. I'd agree......

and it's all due to Sharpton, with his horrible history concerning civil rights and antisemitism.

[FrenchieCat]

8. That's a terrible thing to say

about Al Sharpton. Will you go to no end to justify your candidate?

[Name removed]

21. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Cheswick2.0]

30. This looks VERY familiar

B-)

[tameszu]

15. You didn't think this about Sharpton

before he criticized Dean. Ever considered that he might actually have a point? Dean may have legitimate points in wanting to win the South by talking about economics abstracted of race, or talking about affirmative action in terms of economics and not race, but someone who has always been sensitive toward racial issues might also legitimately view that as highly problematic--even insensitive to the importance of the role of racial problems in American politics.

[Brian_Expat]

18. How do you know what she, or anyone else, thought or thinks?

Last time I checked, Ms. Cleo wasn't in business anymore. :eyes:

[Rowdyboy]

3. Chill...A lot of it is just reaction...

I've spent the last 3 months turning the other cheek and this morning I got pissed off. Since then, I've spread as much anti-Dean garbage as possible, and Dean is my second choice. Why? Because, evidently, thats how its done here. Smear the party, smear all opposition, build up your choice, never admit whats wrong, and make fun of anyone stupid enough not to agree with you.

[NV1962]

12. That's just stupid!

(checks avatar of target)

Oh sorry. ;)

The question about Dean handling Transborgorian participation quota in the VT public restroom safety commission remains though. I haven't seen an unambiguous position of Dean on that yet... Suspicious this!

Sharpton had a dig on a sensitive issue on which Dean didn't have an immediate luminary retort (sheesh, give him a break, he's really human) and all PC hell broke loose.

I think it's a bit like the "pie chart on radio" thing with Kucinich: stuff that makes talkradio swell - very little more.

[bain_sidhe]

13. It's how it's done because people do it.

If we refuse to do it, it won't be how it's done here, right?

Ok, maybe I've officially jumped the shark. I'm off to bed before I get any worse.

[Rowdyboy]

16. I really thought that, and I tried to live like that

but over and over and over I hear that my candidate is a Republican which means that I must be too. They finally made me crack. I'm sorry, and I didn't want to do this but if you push me too far, I push back. And when I start pushing, I don't know when to stop.

[Clark4VotingRights]

22. I know. It's a natural reaction Rowdyboy. But our candidate sets

a good example. It's elevating.

[Jerseycoa]

42. Rowdyboy, I don't know what happened here today

I'm on my sister's dial-up and it's so slow I've only checked a few threads. But I do understand how you could have been driven to negativity by what goes on here. It's happened to me a few times. Take a day off, come back rested. Use your Ignore button a whole lot. Life gets better! :)

[Padraig18]

25. I snapped Thursday, Rowdyboy!

It happens, and oddly enough, I went off on Clark, who is my #2. Go figure, huh? :hug:

[meow mix]

27. yup, cheek turning is not allowed

just try and be friendly to opposition, i dare ya. only gets ya massivly shredded :/

[Cheswick2.0]

32. Well I guess if I didn't find the idea of President Clark so horrifying

I would understand and try not to tick you off. But I have read enough of your posts to know that you have bashed Dean way before today.

[tameszu]

6. Not that I defend it

But they appear to be doing it to counter (1) the race/gotcha threads put up by Dean supporters; and (2) the "I saw Clark in a black helicopter" threads started by the tinfoil hairpiece crowd.

We may need some new message board rules after tonight.

[Clark4VotingRights]

7. Agreed. I care what Dean does for every demographic going forward

Same as I do for my candidates.

[windansea]

9. here's a nice thread about tax plans and surfing

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=103022

[bain_sidhe]

11. I know, but I'm not coherent

enough to contribute to it right now. I'll check it out tomorrow. I was just about to go to bed, thought I'd check the forum one last time and ... HOLY SH*T! Look at all the race/diversity/gotcha threads!

Uh... I may have over reacted... A bit... :crazy:

[windansea]

14. no..you made a good post

get some rest

:hippie:

[wtmusic]

10. Sharpton playing the race card

:thumbsdown: his bad

[VolcanoJen]

17. OK, but some of those threads were pretty funny.

}(

How many Greeks and Indians has Kucinich sent to the spelling bee?

[Walt Starr]

33. I've heard that before

B-)

[Cheswick2.0]

34. me too

hey walt, haven't seen you all day!

[hellhathnofury]

19. Ignore function.

[Kathleen04]

20. I'd like...

a divorce too, I'm already not wearing my wedding band (no avatar or sig line pic). ;)

[Capn Sunshine]

23. Jeebus Crisco indeed!

Too bad we don't know in the Clark campaign who is "with us" and who "isn't "

[Padraig18]

24. Bless you, my son!

:hug:

[bain_sidhe]

38. Er... daughter...

MAML here (middle aged married lady)

But other than that, thanks! Of course, you might take it back after you read my newest post.

[Hep]

26. Amen

Another reasonable Clark supporter comes out. More of you, please. Shout down the assholes who give your guya bad name, and I will continue to shout down those on my side.

[Toucano]

28. The biggest stink

about another non-issue.

I support another candidate, but I don't think the make-up of people in Gov. Dean's cabinet indicates anything about his view on race relations.

Let's move on to substantial issues, please.

[Walt Starr]

29. Thank you

It's clark supporters like you that keep me in the ABB slot.

[bicentennial_baby]

31. Me too!

Sign me up!

[John_H]

35. Most of the threads are started by paniced Dean Supporters

by my count.

[Padraig18]

36. by my count...

it's just the opposite.

[Hep]

39. Show us your count, then

Some folks only count what they want to count. Show me.

[bain_sidhe]

37. Ok, a more rational post

I apologize for my outburst. Here's where it came from: I missed the debate because (shallow of me, I know) I wanted to watch the new Alias, and I figured it would be a "pile on Dean" sort of affair anyway, and I don't find that kind of thing productive. I figured I'd check out the debate threads afterwards, and if it looked like anything of subtance was brought up, I'd tape the repeat to watch tonight. So, after Alias, I came in here. I saw three-four threads about Sharpton's remark. Ok, I figured, they'll have a little fun with that and then settle down. Then I come back later and almost half the threads on the front page were variations on the same stupid (to me) theme. I couldn't even FIND the debate threads, they'd been pushed off the front page because of this stuff.

The thing is, yes, I think race and minority issues are important... but "how many have you hired for your cabinet"? Puleeeze. Even I can defend Dean on that, and I'm not even a supporter. Given the low percentage of minorities in Vermont, the chances of finding somebody with both the right set of skills and the willingness to work in his cabinet are miniscule. After all, minorities skew liberal, and Dean spent a lot of his time *fighting* with liberals, and even mocking them when they complained about his cuts to social services. "The last gasp of liberals" indeed. I don't think I'd have wanted to serve in his administration, and I'm mostly a moderate!

No, to me the SUBSTANTIVE issue about race is, how did his policies as Governor help or hurt minorities? It's a sad fact that minorities nationally are disproportionately poor, without health benefits, attend underfunded/poorly-performing schools, and sent to prison rather than alternative sentencing. Is the same true in Vermont? I don't know, but it would be worth looking into, don't you think? Because Dean's policies in Vermont were decidedly "conservative" in terms of social services and criminal justice. Did they disproportionately hurt minorities or not?

Anyway, I don't really want a divorce, I just want to stop chasing after gotchas - especially ones that are so easily defended against because hey, where's your issue after that? - and focus on stuff that actually addresses the question of whether Dean's record shows racial disparity in EFFECT.

So. Maybe instead of a divorce, a trial separation is in order. But knowing me, it's not likely. I can't stay outta this place. But I apologize for jumping all over those Clark supporters who were just "having some fun." It's just that I'm not in a "having fun" mood, and haven't been for a while - but part of the reason I'm not is because of Dean supporters' constant (and equally ridiculous) gotcha threads against Clark, so I should be more understanding when some Clark supporters want to return the "favor," I guess.

So, I'm sorry.

Mostly.

[Eloriel]

40. Good post

But I have to take exception to this:

Dean's policies in Vermont were decidedly "conservative" in terms of social services

Dean has gotten some bad -- and misleading -- press on that issue, because he balanced the budgets in VT so that he COULD do things like:

* universal healthcare for all children under 18

* Success by Six, a program that he instituted because of rising prison populations (and his distaste for having to fund them) and which has cut child abuse by 43% and child sexual abuse by 70% (and which WILL diminish prison populations in a few years, probably dramatically).

And as for your apology:

But I apologize for jumping all over those Clark supporters who were just "having some fun."

Has it really been "just having some fun"? I don't think it was done in fun, and I don't think it's appropriate to let race-baiters off the hook that way. YMMV.

Eloriel

[bain_sidhe]

41. Ok,

* universal healthcare for all children under 18

* Success by Six, a program that he instituted because of rising prison populations (and his distaste for having to fund them) and which has cut child abuse by 43% and child sexual abuse by 70% (and which WILL diminish prison populations in a few years, probably dramatically).

This is good stuff, and I'm not too proud or "anti-Dean" to say so. (I'm actually not "anti-Dean" at all, I'm just pro-Clark. Part of being "pro-clark" is looking for issues on which his stance (IMHO) is better than an opponents stance.)

Has it really been "just having some fun"? I don't think it was done in fun, and I don't think it's appropriate to let race-baiters off the hook that way. YMMV.

Well, I was going by what Rowdyboy and some others said. But, yes, I think it was less about race than it was about grabbing a gotcha and running with it. I think it could have been about *any* issue, as long it was sufficiently "gotcha." I know Dean supporters feel this board is "anti-Dean" that's 123% gotchas against Dean, but as Clark supporter, I see MUCH MORE gotcha's against Clark than they do (Another YMMV, thing, I think, and probably an indication that it's more even than not.) I dislike responding in kind, but I *do* see where the impulse comes from. I just don't like it when it's so overwhelming that I can't find the *real* information that I know exists on this board. Somewhere.

[mdmc]

43. ignore

works for me