the "nuisance" quotation -- regrettably, it could cause damage

[mike from ri]

hate to be the bearer of bad news. in fact, I've been optimistic all along (see my other recent posts).

but this "nuisance" quotation has the potential to be the equivalent of Dukakis' response to Bernie shaw re the death penalty: a cold-blooded amoral technocratic response when the public clamors for Churchillian moral clarity.

in fact, dems must express absolute moral outrage over the evil represented by al-quedaism and then argue over means.

i think k needs to work some moral absolutism in his debate performance on wednes on this issue (even though the debate is ostensibly about domestic topics). he does not need to specifically retract his prior statement. but he needs to bring a good v. evil, eliminate terrorism, terrorism=Nazism certainty to his position. energy conservation could be his seg-way.

what do you all think?

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

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[mike from ri]

12. scowcroft is an adviser; OK for him to be a technocrat

k would be prez. people want to be able to relate to the prez on an emotional level.

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

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[mike from ri]

24. votes

voters cast votes. that is is what such connection has "to do with it." when running for office one wishes to appeal to ovters so as to get their votes.

[MADem]

26. CONDI RICE USED THE SAME TERM

...in stating goals for the weewee administration--she wanted the terrorist threat to be reduced to a NUISANCE. That was two or three YEARS ago.

This is the same shit Rove ALWAYS pulls, and people jump frantically instead of doing research and telling them to go fuck themselves. It's like the SENSITIVE war, that weecowboy derided, only he said it, Cheney said it, everyone said it.

[mike from ri]

28. condi is not running for prez

it is different when you are a challenger running for prez. especially if you from a party generally perceived as relatively 'soft" and "weak"

[Lex]

31. This won't hurt Kerry because the media is actually reporting

that the quote is being used out of context.

[Name removed]

50. Deleted message

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[Mayberry Machiavelli]

2. Anyone who would not vote for JK and vote for shrub over THIS is a

freakin' idiot, and wouldn't have been voting for JK anyway.

Bush is the INCUMBENT. He has had a SHITTY presidency.

It is not similar to Bush SR/Dukakis or Bush Jr/Gore at ALL.

[Cleopatra2a]

3. only for non-thinkers

He was right, we will never rid the world of terrorism. Think of school shootings, 1 or 2 people - still terrorists to me. We'd all have to be living in the Garden of Eden to be rid of all evil. And you know what happened there.

[geek tragedy]

4. Kerry didn't say "nuisance" in front of 50 Million people

This is a one day story. The third debate is coming up, and this will be long forgotten by then.

[blm]

5. Bush is LYING and TWISTED the quote and the press caught him doing it.

If Bush wants to go there, GOOD. Time for folks to know that Bush was making money from terrorists bank pals while Kerry was working to shut them down. Kerry was the FIRST lawmaker to go after terrorists and shut down their funding and expose their criminal international financiers.

[Spiffarino]

6. Not even close

Bush has lost both debates and he's grasping at straws. He said basically the same thing about a month ago ("I don't think you can win it") so where's the real damage here?

You worry too much. Get a grip.

[LiberalAndProud]

7. Google -- nuisance terrorism -- and get things like this

http://hir.harvard.edu/articles/?id=950&page=14

"The partial deterrence effect has been shattered by the September 11 attacks. Previously seen as a nuisance, terrorism has now suddenly become a major threat to national security and international order. Deterrence policy must be changed to meet the new threat."

[Justice]

8. Press Keeps Calling out Bush supporters

to admit that is not what Kerry said. At worst, it is perceived to be saying the same thing Bush said weeks ago - that we cannot eliminate terrorism completely.

[qanda]

9. Oh please...

John Kerry was exactly right. We don't want to live with the threat of major terrorism hanging over us forever. At some point we want to get back to the place where terrorism isn't a major threat to the world.

[Kool Kitty]

10. This was a phrase taken out of context.

Anyone that can read knows this. The Democrats have expressed outrage over the actions of Al Queda. This whole argument is bullshit. If you have watched or listened to the debates and any of Kerry's speeches, you would know that.

[featherman]

11. To a truly brave and honorable country, terrorism is just a nuisance

A police matter, not a cause of national hysteria. This "bogeyman under every bed" is Republican bread and butter developed, honed and refined over the decades of the Cold War and "red menace". They are on familiar turf, folks, and NEED America's fear desparately.

[George_S]

64. Excellent post eom

[Dem2theMax]

66. I've never seen anyone put it better than this. Perfect. Now I'm going

to steal it and use it when a repuke friend of mine sends me an email about the 'nuisance' word. :) Hope you don't mind. :) :)

[WilliamPitt]

13. READ THIS

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=1036858

[mike from ri]

19. scowcroft is a mere adviser; OK for him to be a technocrat

a prez is different. people want to connect w a prez. want a prez to share their sense of moral indignation.

[Name removed]

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[Media_Lies_Daily]

15. The fact that we're even discussing this non-issue is a nuisance to me.

[PittLib]

16. Personally, I think we should leave definitions of "evil"

to the fundies. This, to me, is a bullshit word, ideology - and a total cop out.

[mike from ri]

21. most americans think differently

evil is a real concept to most voters. the point is not what you or i think but what most voters think.

[PittLib]

49. If you are expecting me to pander to the stupid ...

you are wasting your time. As far as the religious right - I look forward to the day when the Rebubs allow the fundies (Constitution Party) to break off and continue on with their self defeat.

[iamjoy]

18. Better Idea

Personally, I always thought people who accused Kerry of treating terrorism like a crime instead of a war weren't flat out wrong so much as backwards. In my opinion, Kerry believes in fighting crime like a war. But that's just my opinion, based on the excerpts I've read from his book "The New War" (can't read the whole thing, couldn't read "Call To Service" either, the tone is too textbook like)

But anyway, lets stick with a message more consistent with the Kerry campaign. He was asked when he would consider the war on terror won. He said when it was a nuisance like prostitution.

It occurs to me...this actually shows surprising candor and courage. A true demogague or politician would have said "when every last terrorist is dead." But think about what he is saying. We will have won when it no longer dominates every debate, when we no longer constantly obsess over it.

In that way, it is like prostitution. Few Americans think about it every day. It's still there, still (some would say) a problem, but for the most part it doesn't dominate our lives or national agenda.

[mike from ri]

27. i know what he meant

and even if i were to agree with it, i find it problematic form a campaign standpoint.

but i think it will resonate negatively with voters. I'm not sure we can just dismiss it.

[nonconformist]

20. Kerry said he wanted to REDUCE the threat to a nuisance

How in the world is that a BAD thing? He didn't say it was only a nuisance at the time.

[bush equals idiot]

59. Think about it.

Bush has actually turned our televisions into "terror-vision". It is on every news channel every time you turn on the news 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year. All because of that bung holes invasion of Iraq.

Having said that, for the life of me I don't understand why Kerry makes these statements? It just gives them something new to copy and paste. There were so many ways to say it than that. Kerry is so busy trying to calm people, he doesn't remember he's running against people who wallow in sludge. I wish he'd get some devastating crisp one liners and stick to em.

[nonconformist]

60. I still don't get that he said anything wrong

In fact, I think he said something that should reassure people who are afraid that he won't focus on terrorism like the right-wing keeps saying.

He said that he wanted it to get to a point where terrorism was reduced to a nuisance. He didn't say that now, currently, terrorism is a nuisance in our society. So in other words, Kerry said he wanted to LOWER OUR RISK of terrorism and he's being attacked for that.

He should flip it and question why the Republicans take offense to that... shouldn't that be their goal too?

[bush equals idiot]

69. He just used a word which was not a good choice. Same as sensitive.

He could have said, I want to restore safety and security once again to the American people so they no longer have to be pre-occupied with fearing terror every single day of their lives. Nobody could have spun that.

[Julien Sorel]

62. Think about it for a minute.

It's impossible to make a meaningful statement without saying something that can be twisted. Think about your own use of language. Look at your own post:

I don't understand why Kerry makes these statements?

Kerry is just a witless blabbermouth. Stop saying that about our candidate -- it's against the rules here.

I wish he'd get some devastating crisp one liners and stick to em.

You accused him of being long winded and discursive.


And so on and so on. Kerry can't crawl into a rhetorical hole out of fear of what lies the Republicans will tell about what he actually said. That's losing as well. At some point you have to have confidence in the ability of common Americans to sniff out bullshit -- if they can't do it, then our democracy is done for.

[oasis]

65. Exactly right. Kerry's"fighting terrorism with sensitivity"lost steam. The

"global test" distortion, fell flat. This latest Rove attempt will get far less traction.

[girl gone mad]

22. I think you are using Bush's spin on Kerry's quote,

rather than thinking about what he really said.

Kerry didn't mean nuisance in the sense that people could be killed by terrorists and we would think of it as a nuisance rather than a real threat.

He meant that we can reduce the threat of terrorism to a point where it won't be a daily obsession, instead we'll just be aware of the nuisance of having to go through extra security checks at the airport or more metal detectors at buildings.

[sonicx]

23. bullshit, Bush and gang have thrown 'flip flop' at Kerry for months

and the race is tied.

not to mention the swiftboat smears.

[DrBB]

25. Another nitwit

Whole board's overrun with 'em tonight.

"Ohmygosh! The latest Rove attack is devastating! Let us immediately freak out! For surely they will make a Dukakis of Kerry! Whatever shall we do! Oh my oh my oh my!"

That is the whole of what the top post adds up to: modelling exactly the panic reaction Rove would love to inspire. In fact Kerry's statement made perfectly good sense, Brent Scrowcroft himself said the same thing, and your analysis sounds like it came straight out of GOP central.

[mike from ri]

30. keep your head in the sand

if you want to be like b*sh.

[DrBB]

35. Keep your panic to yourself

Tell me exactly which part of this thread is actually aimed at accomplishing anything? "Oh deary gracious, look how effective the latest Bush ad is!" is all I see here.

The GOP's Brent Scrowcroft made the same point, and it's a valid point. I refuse to be steamrollered by this kind of crap. Do I have my head in the sand, or do you have your head up your...

[Lerkfish]

44. uncalled for, frankly.....

no need to compare people to bush for refusing to be depressed over nothing.

[henslee]

29. Nahhh. One misinterpreted noun ain't changing this race, pal.

[Lex]

32. I agree with that.

Plus, the media is actually bothering to report that the quote is being taken out of context.

[henslee]

36. We must keep it a secret but this race is over. America has tasted

character and dignity and they like it.

[dolstein]

33. Unfortunately, Kerry has a habit of sticking his foot in his mouth

A "sensitive" war on terror.
A "global" test.
Now, terrorism as a "nuisance."

Sure, everything Kerry says sounds reasonable in context. But c'mon, Kerry ought to know by now that the Republicans take everything out of context. The fact is, all of these statements could have been communicated just as effectively with language that was not was vulnerable to Republican attack. Having seen the Republicans jump all over comparable statements in the past, it's amazing that Kerry is still making these mistakes.

[mike from ri]

37. my point exactly

n/t

[iamjoy]

40. Rove Shoves It In...

I mean, stop picking on Kerry.

There was a great cartoon about this some time ago, the "reporter" asked Kerry if light was a particle or wave and Kerry explained that it was both (which is true) & the reporter said Kerry was trying to have it both ways.

Then the "reporter" asked Bush something absurdly easy (like spelling cat, I don't remember) and he got it wrong but the reporter raved about Bush's certainty.

No matter what Kerry says, they will find a way to twist it. If he'd said the war on terror would be won when every last terrorist was hunted and gone, they'd bring up some quote he'd said at some point that seemed contradictory.

[NightOwwl]

34. OH MY GOD!

NO NO NO PLEASE TELL ME IT ISN'T TRUE O MIKE FROM RI NOW I'M GOING 2 BE SO DEPRESSED NO NO NO IS BUSH REALLY GOING 2 WIN I AM SO UPSET HOW CAN I EVER GET OVER THIS WHY DID U HAVE 2 TELL ME THIS BAD NEWS?

:cry: :cry: :cry:

[DrBB]

38. ALL WE CAN DO IS PANIC! THERE IS NO OTHER CHOICE!!!!

Plus Dolstein thinks so, so it MUST be hopeless!

[LynnTheDem]

39. bullshit.

Toss Republican and Poppa bush's best friend Brent Scowcroft's NUISANCE QUOTE right back in bushCartel's fucking smarmy faces.

[Lex]

43. Wasn't there some other word Kerry used that they tried to

make a big deal out of and it didn't work because many people in Bush's own administration had used it?

I can't remember what the word or phrase was right now. Seems like the Kerry people shot it down real fast. This was about 6 or 8 weeks ago.

[MADem]

54. SENSITIVE

As I said above, Bush said it, Cheney said it, everyone said it. It was a White House talking point word, in an effort to con Muslims into thinking Bush did not want to kill them all.

I think little Mike shot his wee wad a bit too soon. He just couldn't wait. I'm guessing his purpose was to seed the upcoming debate threads with doom, but, just like anyone with minor assets, he had to grab that little wooden toothpick and go to town. Now he has no more wood. Awwwwww. No patience, no cleverness.

They aren't as smart as they think. All that effort, blown.

But take heart, Du-ers. If they are spending their time on cheapass, amateur psyops like this, amongst highly motivated Kerryistas, we must be doing better than we realize. So, in a perverse way, this little boy (never send one to do a man's job) has done us a favor!

[txindy]

41. Doubt it. This is penny-ante stuff.

The debates will lay all of that nonsense to rest. Can't wait for Wed.

[newsguyatl]

42. i think this sounds like a freeper's talking point

... or wet dream.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

45. "hate to be the bearer of bad news"

No, you love to be the bearer of jellylegs squawking.

[DrBB]

48. I agree--the self-denying utterance

One of my favorite rhetorical categories. "This page intentionally left blank." "I really hate to tell you this!"

"I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but the latest Bush ad IS ABSOLUTELY DEVASTATING! WE ARE DOOMED! LET'S GIVE UP NOW, M'KAY?"

What horseshit.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

51. I'm sure he's a genius of political strategy...

or else he stayed at the Holiday Inn Express last night.

[venus]

70. Geez. I don't see why we have to attack the poster of this thread so

vehemently. He or she is just expressing a thought based on the the latest Bushco lie.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

71. Why you say "we"?

Are you me?

[ruggerson]

46. You're forgetting

that Bush himself said the "war on terror" cannot be won. He said "I don't think you can win it."

Now, how morally un-absolute is that?

All Kerry has to do at the debate if shrub brings the "nuisance" quote up is to throw shrub's own quote back at him.

[BUSHOUT]

47. You're wrong....this will be seen through by the American people.

Just like that global test crap. That was a lie.

They can tell lies about what JFK said all they want. If they're not true, they won't stick.

They're getting desperate....searching magazines for any single word or phrase they can present and build an out-of-context story around it!

John Kerry called it what it was....ridiculous lies. It's over.

[Democat]

52. I disagree

Either candidate can pull quotes from the other out of context at any time. There is no way to parse your words so carefully that someone can't pull something out of a long interview and spin it some strange way.

This is not going to hurt Kerry seriously.

Kerry should just do the same to Bush - Bush claims he invented the Hydrogen Car - Kerry should run an ad about Bush the liar. Character is going to be important to a lot of people's votes - more so than some out of context Bush ad.

[T Town Jake]

53. Not in the slightest...(n/t)

[TheWebHead]

55. what an odd comparison

and a suspicious post (and series of posts), imo... At best, this comment neutralizes Bush's "can't win" remark, though I think Kerry trying to offer some optimism looking in the future is nowhere near as bad as * saying we can't "win" against terrorists.

[aaronbees]

56. Bull...

... no matter what Kerry says from now on, BushCo and his Rovians will twist it around; it's not up to him to make the perfect, clean statements that pander to every right-tilting, fearful voter out there. It's up to us and the media (what's left of it) to put things in context, which it seems has been done in this instance.

And by the way, Dems, including Kerry, have already expressed moral outrage at the acts of "alquedaism" (whatever that means). They've been doing so for many years, longer than the Repubs in terms of making it a real concern. I imagine those undecideds out there, if they exist, are not going to make up their minds due to being reinforced, coddled, and burped about their conception of who's evil and who's not. And if they are, they were just teasing with a vote for Kerry, and really nothing would turn them away from the Bush flock. The things you're asking Kerry to say? He's pretty much already said them. Wednesday's his chance to fry Bush on domestic matters ... and that's what'll bring home the election, I think.

[progressivebydesign]

57. FInd the quote in its entirety.. it makes PERFECT sense.

People are smarter than that. If the REAL quote is out there, they'll see that Bush.. once again.. is a smarmy fuckface, as usual. He can't get America excited about the great things HE'S done, so he attacks Kerry.

[demzilla]

58. There is no hope for the hopelessly stupid

Every village has an idiot who votes, and these sorts are suckered in by the most blatant, ridiculous attacks.

But I think most people find what politicians say in a campaign, especially one this heated, to be suspect. As he grows more desperate Chimpy is threatening to cross the line between twisting the truth and outright lying. It's possible that he could get into trouble over this and that it could backfire, with a loss of credibility.

The plain truth, which most people do understand, is that terrorism -- which has been with us since the airplane hijackings of the 1970s -- will never completely go away. A "victory" in the war on terror is to reduce it back to the nuisance level. Most realistic people know it cannot be eliminated entirely. Even if we kill everyone outside of our borders, we will still have our own Tim McVeighs.

So I think, in a strange way, this issue could help Kerry with some people. It will undoubtedly hurt with a few, but these are the turnip truck voters, dazed and confused.

[oasis]

61. Kerry's surrogates have explained it and so has the media. No legs.

[George_S]

63. He only said exactly what we are doing...

... and exactly what Bush and Giuliani said we should do: get on with our lives and don't let this control us.

Which means, it is no more than a nuisance.

[K8-EEE]

67. Bush Says Way More Stupid Things Every Time He...

opens his mouth.....it's completely ridiculous. You can't even LIST all the stupid crap he says and they jump on JK any tiny word, usually taken out of context.

[Steelangel]

68. Nah, it will not cause any damage..

Read this: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1040153

Kerry/Edwards just created a trap and the chimp walked into that. Wow, Kerry/Edwards once again impressed me with their cleverness.

[Gore1FL]

72. It could cause damage if it is misframed and beleived

It al;ready has been misframed. Will anyone beleive it at this point? I mean seriously, everyone knows at this point that Bush takes everything out of context -- he did so in the debate concernig partial birth abortions.

[sherilocks]

73. John Kerry will never utter another word

if he has to censor his comments and delete all adjectives that might be distorted by the rethugs. Here is the entire paragraph from the NYTimes Sunday magazine section. I don't have the link.

"When I asked Kerry what it would take for the Americans to feel safe again, he displayed a much less apocalyptic worldview. 'We have to get back to the place we were, where terrorists are not the focus of our lives, but they're nuisances,' Kerry said. 'As a former law-enforcement person, I know we're never going to end prosittution. We're never going to end illegal gambling. But we're going to reduce it, organized crime, to a level where it isn't on the rise. It isn't threatening people's lives every day, and fundamentally, it's something that you continue to fight, but it's not threatening the fabric of your life.'"