I cant remember an election that split up family and freinds

[Ksec]

I dont remember this ever happening before. Ive become enemies with one of my own family members over this election.
Ive seen friends become enemies. Has anyone ever seen anything like this before? I havent and Ive been indulging in politics since the early seventies.

[ProfessorPlum]

1. That's our Gee-Dub! He's a uniter, see.

Not a divider.

Oh how I wish to wake up and find the last four years an awful nightmare.

[PurityOfEssence]

2. Yeah, I've written off a close old friend and business associate

Hell, he even suggested the name we gave to our daughter, but enough with the sentiment. This is much more serious a stress on society than anything in the sixties; we're in for some very prickly times.

You're not alone; many of us are going through this.

[RaleighNCDUer]

3. Not since '72

[Philostopher]

20. Y'know, you're right.

I remember my mother sitting down and crying for a few minutes when she found out my grandmother had voted for Nixon a second time. My grandmother had always been a Dem, but she didn't like anybody who ran against Nixon. By '72, it had become clear what Nixon was, at least to my folks. It really upset my mom -- she didn't talk to my grandmother for a couple of weeks, but she got over it. We all know what happened with Nixon, of course, and believe me -- my mother hammered her about it for a while.

I'll be honest -- my mother wouldn't take her to the polls in '76 until she coughed up that she was going to vote for Carter. My grandmother liked Carter, though. That was her last election -- she was suffering from dementia by 1980 and wouldn't have known what to do if she'd tried to vote.

That's the last time I rememer an election being anywhere near this divisive in my family, though. Nixon turned the waverers in my family into either non-voters or Democrats.

[Owlet]

4. I don't personally remember anything like this...

..and I'm collecting Social Security, so I've seen a few elections. The atmosphere reminds me of what I've read about the impact of the Dreyfus Affair in France back at the end of the Ninteenth beginning of the Twentieth century. Emile Zola's J'Accuse which blasted the French government and army had an impact similar to Michael Moore's F9/11. Families divided, friendships broke up, all the symptoms we see today.

[qanda]

5. Please, please, please....

Don't let politics destroy your relationships-- it's not worth it.

[mhr]

8. Freepers Are Destroying The Country - Time To Destroy Them

We cannot let the brown shirts take over the country.

[Shadow30]

9. prehaps but there are....

...alot of things that destroy realtionships that aren't worth it.Its just politics is topping the list,sign of the times,were reaching critical mass.

[Ksec]

11. I hate it but its not something I can just drop

Its that important to me and apparently they must feel the same.

It sucks. I understand that. i JUST HATE whats happening.

[Shadow30]

21. oh I understand I am going threw it to...

...in fact I was just discussing this in a similar thread.Its just a sad and terrible thing,it seems we haven't been so torn since the civil war.I think its to important to give into the Bush gang and some of Bush's most unwavering supporters maybe those close to us,I just think its such a damn shame it has to be this way.

[sandnsea]

10. Bull

I don't want to live in the country these idiots are trying to create and I don't want my grandchildren to either. It's simple, if you like Republican values, move to Alabama. If you don't want your state to turn into Alabama, stop voting for Republicans. I've had it and am not going to let these morons walk all over me another minute.

[Carni]

29. F ---- em all!

I have some GOP relatives that are just barely making 200,000 a year...they aren't truly "bush's haves" but they fancy that they are.
Even though they make good livings they are spending it just as quickly as they are making it. They are also heavily leveraged in debt.

Initially after the last (S)election my husband and I were getting "the look" at family gatherings(you know... the one where the self appointed "haves" sort of roll their eyes and giggle at each other like "Oh here go the losers again about bush" and this would always occur after THEY had brought him up in the first place, just to stick it to us)

Instead of being cool about it and keeping the talk of politics out of family gatherings. They were "empowered"--they made jokes about the "stupid Democrats" that "didn't know how to vote in West Palm Beach," they GLOATED routinely.

They taunted and it was deliberate.

I don't want anything to do with these people and we haven't spoken for months--I don't want my kids around them and I don't want to look at them because I have come to loathe everything they stand for.
(Which is NOTHING except their damned tax cuts.)

How the hell do you get around a person's "politics"???

To me a person's "politics" IS who they really are!

I am with you seaNsand--I am sick of having these people run roughshod at my expense.

[sandnsea]

31. Sounds like my sister

She used to send me emails that were "funny", you know the ant one and the college daughter one, stuff like that. I ignored it all until this year. She sent me one of those SSI emails and I simply put a link to the SSI site that exposed it as a myth. I didn't receive anything else and thought I'd gotten through to her. After maneuvering through my daughter's wedding without incident, and even letting her husband watch Bush on MY tv, she just couldn't let it go. Sent me another email, I responded and politely told her to stop, she called me close-minded. KAPOW, we may never speak again. She is all about self-righteousness, whether it's money or religion. She's just BETTER. Well I'm with you, fuck 'em, I've had it.

[Carni]

40. It's like they are completely brainwashed

I used to be one of those people who could BS about politics without going off no matter how right winged and stupid the crap someone was spouting was.

I would concede they had some good points (even if I didn't think so) and then I would try to find a unifying stance to make them see how my belief, wasn't all that different from theirs.

I was told that I was very good at this.

I managed to keep my cool for a long time...that ended in March when I went off and ripped the head family RW'd loud mouth a new ass over the phone when she pushed one of my buttons.

I agree with you it all boils down to them being "better" it's always been something with these people.

This resident and his policies have given all the self righteous, selfish, pigs, yet another reason to brag about themselves and stick it to everyone else--bush's followers have the same mentality as bush.
They are shallow, greedy, dishonest people for the most part.

He and his cohorts have empowered these types of people.

[seabeyond]

17. maybe it is more indictive of where we went wrong

then one can begin to work on healing and accepting or letting go. i would hope in my marriage it would be worth ed and i working, actually we did, respectful of each other. but a mate unwilling to work it says something about the mate and the relationship. this is more than an election, this is civil right, religion, morality, our childrens future, ..........

for me, i told a friend thru out life i have asked self, would i be the ones to hide the jews, help them run, would i be one that kept quiet, would i be the one to support hitler, would i be the one to kill.

same with the slavery issue way back when. who am i as a person. own them, yet be a "nice" owner, hide them, help them to freedom, or see them as non human.

these are basic questions to who we are as a person

this is another time in history i feel it is important to not shy away from truth. to not be in illusion of fear. this is that important to me. a time the republicans should say, the impeachment was wrong. we stole the election in 2000. the democrats have the right to speak. we are trying to shut up a group of people thru intimidation. we went to war with poor intent and greed and our fear was manipulated by this administration. we are chosing self interest before the good of whole

[NewYorkerfromMass]

6. Yep. A neighbor of mine had a Bush sign up

very surprised to see it, because not only does it mean he supports Bush but he's fucking proud of it.
I was stupefied to see it.

[tmooses]

7. Yes, I see it too, but it's no accident...

the Bush people have deliberately manipulated (marketed?) the Iraq war
in a way that some (most?) people feel dissent against the war is unpatriotic, the same as not supporting the troops and traiterous. I think that's why people are so vehement about their positions....you are with us or against us. Bush has made it a black/white world with no middle ground. They have done this for their own political gain and do not care about how it divides family, friends, etc. as long as they stay in power.

[Minimus]

12. I just lost it at work

I had to get up and walk out, go to lunch and cool down. I work with all RW religious nuts and I usually do not let them get to me. They often will ask questions about Kerry's stance on certain issues and we usually have a civil conversation about politics. We agree to disagree, so to speak.

Today my boss starts talking about Kerry and Edwards not voting for the $87 billion and how can they say they support the troops, blah blah blah. I tried to explain bush planing to veto and all that but he did not want to hear it. He also said that K/E are rich and he does not believe they actually would support taking away their own tax cut. I said that there are quite a few wealthy people that care about their fellow man and want to help the middle class and low income. He said he kind of hope Kerry wins just so I can see how bad he is and he just kept on and on and on, till I finally stood up and said I'm leaving. He turned red and immediately apologized and said he would never bring it up again. I said I did not mind talking politics but I did mind personal attacks and outright lies. I told him I would see him after lunch and left.

Now I am back from lunch and mad at myself for letting him get me so mad!

Thanks DU, for letting me blow off steam.

[tmooses]

28. Hang in there, cliberty....

I can empathize. I was working in an office, too, with a bunch of right wing/religious types and had to listen to the same bullshit everday. If you did argue with them, they would fall back to one of their buddies for support. One of the very religious and moral types was always talking about how important it was to arm yourself and brought lots of gun catalogues to work because "you know, there's a lot of homeless out there and you don't know what they're going to do". The turning point for me was when I went to this guy's work station and found "happy" family snaps taped to his computer of his 5 year old son holding assault weapons with the smiling family in the background. I was lucky enough to be able to take an early retirement, but there was a positive from this. Seeing some of the right wing agenda up close and personal
motivated me to be more active politically and strengthened my own political beliefs. Now working (volunteering) on the Kerry campaign
has reconnected me to some of my core values. So, I think, if you have just an hour or so available to do some sort of work for a progressive cause it can help balance out some of the crap you get at work. But, keep the faith !

[Minimus]

35. I volunteer at the local Dem HQ for the Kerry campaign

working the phone banks and canvassing for state senate race. It definitely does make me feel better to be doing something.

Thanks for the kind words of encouragement!

[sandnsea]

34. That's okay

From what I've read, you've been incredibly patient at work. Maybe it's time the other side knows we're serious. For some reason, they respond to power and equate anger to power. Look at how they admire Bush when he is actually acting like a pompous ass. Maybe a little anger is just what they need to wake up and realize this isn't another political game, we're seriously distressed about the direction this country has taken.

[kcwayne]

13. I have a friend that I grew up with and we go back 35 years

His wife and my wife are close friends that go back 25 years, and in fact his wife intoduced me to his wife at their wedding, which we were both attendants at.

We spent this last weekend visiting with them, and after listening to their views on the war in Iraq (which they don't like because they are afraid it will raise their taxes, not because it is immoral), and their intention to support Bush, I laid out the case against the Bush regime.

They looked at me as though I am completely insane, and I knew that not only would they not listen to facts and reason, that this long, long friendship is over.

[fairfaxvadem]

24. I'm struggling w/the same thing.

Friend of 30 years. It's like the elephant in the living room when we talk. Talk about everything but this election.

Her family, particularly her husband, father and brothers, are major Republicans and from all appearances, have drank the Kool-Aid, to include Fox News and the Moony Times.

I just can't believe someone as smart as she is could stand voting for GW Bush.

Sometimes I feel like I just don't know her anymore and yet, if I pursue this conversation, I'm afraid my happy illusion that we still have a lot in common will be over and I'm not sure I'm ready for that yet.

[CrispyQ]

14. I can't stand to have conversations with my own mother.

Early in the summer I asked that we no longer discuss politics. She continues to bring it up in every conversation & every email. I no longer respond & I don't call her. She has become so full of fear & hate, it boggles my mind. I can't believe that she is so ignorant that she does not see through Bushco & the lies they've told. The way I feel right now, I won't speak to her till there is a new president in the White House. God forbid Bushco steals the election this year, cuz if that happens, she won't hear from me till after 2008 -- assuming we even have an election then & assuming the new president isn't also a PNAC puppet.

For those who think you shouldn't let politics ruin your personal relationships, I ask: if these people's ideology is so contrary to yours, what grounds is the relationship based on?

[JohnnyRingo]

15. Last weekend I was drivin' through town.... I saw a duplex with

...side by side Bush - Kerry signs no more than 10 feet apart.

My mind explored the various scenarios of what daily life with these close neighbors must be like.
I gotta go get a pic, as this displays a snapshot of America today.

[Snivi Yllom]

16. ditto

I have managed to reach a state of detente with my brother whos politics lean towards the Nazi party.We just DO NOT discuss politcs any more.

Family is more important.

[Sputnik]

18. It happened to my family in '88 and '92

My mother and I were the only ones who voted for Dukakis in '88. In '92, my father and sister switched from G.H.W. Bush to Clinton, joining my mother and I. My other sister is a staunch Republikook and prompted many arguments over politics (she or her husband always started the argument, not the rest of us). She and I would go months without talking to one another after a blowup.

Politics haven't been discussed in family gatherings since that time, but the tension is always there. I think my RW sister and brother-in-law finally realized that, unlike in 1988, they are outnumbered. They have stopped instigating arguments. (My husband, other brother-in-law, niece, and nephew are also Dems.)

Also, in 2000, some friends kept sending anti-Gore or pro-Bush e-mails to me. I just trashed them all until one day when I just became angry at them assuming I was a Republican. I gathered all the ammunition I had on both Bush and Cheney (Bush's national guard crap, Cheney's voting record in Congress, etc.) and sent it out to every person on my friends' e-mail list that received the same garbage from them that I had received. It hit the fan for a couple of e-mails, but then they backed down and said they didn't want to ruin our friendship over politics.

Stand your ground. YOU don't have to bring up the topic but if THEY do, stand your ground.

[RummyTheDummy]

19. Good riddance

Use it to your advantage. Now you know who the true scumbags in your circle of friends are. A Bush supporter = scumbag.

[Ksec]

22. Wow. Its even worse than I thought.

I knew it was bad but reading the responses makes me realize its even worse than I thought.

I got into a huge argument with my Sister and we were close. We stopped speaking . Gad this sucks but I will NOT give them any leeway. I think our side used to just give in but weve become more combative these past few elections. Its about time , I say. We have to stop this .

[donsu]

23. families were torn apart during our civil war

books and movies written about it.

that coolaide is powerful stuff. I have a family member that drank it.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

26. Oh what an ominous historical parallel to cite. eom

[RoyalWickedness]

25. I have a somewhat unique perspective on this.

Most of my family are complete idiots, a fact which was evident to me at an early age. They are ignorant, racist, uninformed hypocrites, and I haven't spoken to most of them in years. I have one brother (out of four brothers and a sister) with whom I am close, and always have been. He is intelligent, inquisitive and very informed politically. We talk all the time. The two of us are (ha ha) considered the "black sheep" of the family. So what? You can't choose your family, and sometimes, even though it may be difficult, you just have to go your own way. I've made my own "family," consisting of my wonderful old man and son, friends, etc., who are a vast improvement over the "family" into which I was born, and I'm all the better for it.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

27. Funny, it's made my family closer

The one thing we ALL have in common besides a love of music is disgust with Bush :D

[gauguin57]

30. My sister said this election has been hard on her marriage.

Every night during the nightly news, there's a loooooot of tension brewing. If they don't talk about politics, or the war, or the news ... they're fine. But oh boy ... I see what happens when the Republican in the household starts making comments ... I try not to bring up anything political (I'm not going to change his mind), so as to keep peace in the house.

Yeah. Thanks a LOT, pResident Uniter-Not-Divider. Thanks for your FAMILY VALUES that are ripping families appart!

[monchie]

32. Why do wingers send unwanted BS email to libs?

My perception is that it's pretty common for right wingnuts to send unwanted propaganda emails to libs, but that libs rarely send unwanted pro-Dem email to righties. The only exception to this general rule I can think of is when libs retaliate against unwanted right-wing email by sending unwanted liberal email.

A case in point: A woman I know often gets right-wing BS propaganda from her daughter, even though she has told the daughter that she doesn't want to discuss politics with her. For my part, I won't send this same woman pro-Dem material unless I get her permission first. I also use that same rule with family members, even though most are at the very least somewhat sympathetic to a pro-Dem, anti-Repub point of view.

You know, the right wingers sort of remind me of annoying street evangelists who come up to you and get in your face, preaching to you even after you've politely told them more than once that you're not interested. Or perhaps like the telemarketers who won't respond when you tell them politely you're not interested, and the only way to get them off the phone is if you rudely hang up on them.

[seabeyond]

37. i really wanted to send brother list of chickenhawks (repug)

and vets (dems). i really really wanted to. and i didnt becuase though true and valid to all he says, i just couldnt.

yet i get all these religious things, right wing jesus love you stuff. and from mass mail. i know he and all these people on the list dont go to church, dont know shit in the bible yet sending it to go after the perveted libral.

one time forwarded from mass list how far from the bible all these people were and here is the actual bible verse.

havent had much of anything, though sometimes he still send stuff. not often though

[Bandit]

33. I lost a good friend over Rush Limbaugh

I told my friend that I considered it immoral to use a position of power to denigrate and ridicule people you don't agree with. I said I found Rush despicable and his dittohead followers as well. My friend then asked me if I considered him immoral as well and I said if he enjoyed Rush and backed what he was saying and doing then yes I considered him every bit as immoral as I do Rush. I said that is no way to treat people and it certainly is not entertainment. He accused me of thinking I was morally superior to him and I let it drop. We are no longer friends though.

[RaleighNCDUer]

45. My wife and I had been having continuing problems off and on

for some time. It wasn't until I found out she was listening to Rush at work that I surrendered, packed my bag and stole away quietly in the night.

I can work through a lot, but this was too fundamental for me.

on edit: That was about Rush, not this election. Preceeded this election by a few years, but the principle remains. She just drank the koolaid a little earlier.

Currently, I don't talk to my RW sister or her husband. Fortunately, they're several states away which makes it easy without being uncomfortable.

[ArkDem]

36. It is a shame that the harmony of the Clinton years has now

evaporated.

[Bandit]

43. LOL

You need the sarcasm thingy for posts like this one. One thing about it though it wasn't Clinton that divided America. It was the Republicans spreading their hatred on a constant daily basis and they continue to do so. Rush Limbaugh, Mike savage, Neil Boortz, G. Gordon Liddy, Olly North, Novak, Tucker Carlson, Coulter, Safire, Weekly standard, Washington times, New York Post, the list is endless.

[RaleighNCDUer]

46. And you know they'll keep it up after Kerry wins.

[Hubert Flottz]

38. 1860, brother against brother!

History repeats it's self sometimes!

[Shadow30]

39. in the end....

....who knows what the price for all of this will be,we can't know because whats coming up in the next few weeks is terribly unpredictable,our unelected president is a wild card.He has ripped this country apart,he has set families and friends against each other,plunged us into bloody war and allowed millions of Americans to lose there jobs.This I think is one of those times that the younger people here will remember in there old age and hope there children or grandchildren never have to go threw it.

[VaYallaDawg]

41. Same thing in my family.

It's really disheartening to see my own family showing intolerance and greed - to a degree I never thought possible.

[Arugula Latte]

42. I was at a banquet dinner party in a restaurant this weekend.

Talk turned to politics. Long story short, one military guy at the table supported Bush. He started parroting the Swiftboat lies, defending Bush's missing records. He was full of himself, and I let him have it. So did two other moms at the table. We are not sitting by and letting these lying blowhards get away with this crap anymore. In my experience, it's the women who are really PISSED OFF. A few years ago I would have worried about offending this jackass or coming off as too aggressive. Now I simply don't give a shit.

That guy and myself gave each other the cold shoulder the rest of the evening. My blood pressure was raised for hours afterward.

I HAVE HAD IT.

[Zing Zing Zingbah]

44. I think I'm lucky.

I haven't had any real friendships destroyed over this election, nor am I feuding with anyone in my family. All my good friends, the ones that I consider to be life-long friends, are all very open minded liberal people. They always have been and that is why we became friends in the first place. Unfortunately, I live 2000 miles away from them, but at least we still have commonalities.

My family members(my husband, my dad, my brother, my mother) are and have always been strong democrats. My husband's family, which I honestly don't consider to be my family, has some republicans. We hardly ever see them.

I have met some people that I have decided not too become good friends with because of their politics. That's about it.