We Need to be Wary of Tomorrow's Debate

[indyjones1938]

If the discussion stays focused on things like the economy, education, health care and social security, Kerry will do fine.

But if it shifts to "wedge issues" like abortion, partial-birth abortion, stem cells and the Ten Commandments in courtrooms, things might not go as well for Kerry. It's no coincidence that the Supreme Court agreed to reconsider the Ten Commandments just today. They want it to be a wedge issue against Kerry in the debate.

Most pundits agree that Bush's strongest moments (and Kerry's weakest) in Friday's debate were on these wedge issues. These are the issues on which Bush can appear concise, forceful and emotional (even if his positions are dead wrong).

And of course, Kerry's views on things like abortion, stem cells and church/state won't play well in Peoria where folks board church buses to go to the polls.

[still_one]

1. I disagree

Those are exactly the issues that will affect us

bush said in the last debate that partial birth abortion was black and white, and that if it was a choice between the life of the mother or partial birth abortion, let it be the life of the mother

[indyjones1938]

4. Most undecideds

are socially conservative, fiscally moderate or liberal. Bush's "black and white" view of abortion and Ten Commandments will appeal to them.

These are called "wedge issues" for a reason. They drive a wedge between the candidate and a certain portion of the electorate.

[Vincardog]

7. 60% of undecideds vote for the Challenger. John Kerry owns the domestic

agenda on every issue. Don't let the Fundies drive the debate. The Pope was with Hitler too. Remember the FASCIST tendencies of the Roman Catholic church have been no secret.

[indyjones1938]

14. Good point about the fundies

(I tend to overanalyze these things, so tell me if my reasoning seems off)

But my fear is, now that the Ten Commandments issue has popped up out of nowhere, that Bush will try to frame it as "black and white" -- "Kerry vs. religion, and branch off into things like God in the Pledge of Allegiance, school prayer, blah blah.

And the problem is, MOST Americans (including most Dems and undecideds) are people of faith. If Bush is able to paint Kerry as a secular athiest trying to rid of America of God, it could spell trouble.

[Oak2004]

29. wedge back

Just ask which Ten Commandments?

http://www.biblicalheritage.org/Bible%20Studies/10%20Commandments.htm

[endnote]

9. The more Chimpy sound rigid

and the more wome will flock to JK...

[Cats Against Frist]

17. That sick fuck

It is NOT a black-and-white issue. What if that mother has other children to care for? I know that if I were in the situation where a D & X or whatever, would save my life, I would give up the baby to continue to the be the mother of my beautiful, 3-year-old boy. He's my first allegiance. Maybe to some people, it sounds cold, but neither myself, or my son should be MADE to be a sacrificial lamb, by the government, and be made to choose the baby over our parent-child relationship.

What a bunch of Nazi fucking fascist pieces of shit. Black and white, my ass. If they can't see the shades of gray in this argument -- they are not even humans anymore -- just ideological automoton pieces of shit. FUCK THEM. FUCK THEM.

I'm going to go cry -- I knew there was a reason that I should have been worked up by Bush's response -- but I didn't let it get to me, until now.

[jmowreader]

27. Kerry can annihilate Bush on this one issue

"Mr. pResident, you have said that if it was a choice between the life of the mother or a partial birth abortion, you'd sacrifice the life of the mother. What would you say if your wife Laura needed a partial birth abortion or she would die? What would you have said if she needed it when your daughters Barbara and Jenna were seven? Do you really think your daughters should have grown up motherless? If you don't, then how in HELL can you possibly justify that fate for others?"

The campaign will be over. Immediately.

It worked on Dukakis, and Dukakis was far more qualified to be president than is Bush.

[displacedtexan]

2. Most pundits are clueless asswipes, too.

JK is consistently on the side of the vast majority of American citizens...

If we had laws against errant sperm, abortion wouldn't be an issue.

[blondeatlast]

6. "Laws against errant sperm..."

Hilarious, but so damn true.

[LittleClarkie]

3. Does anyone have a good, objective resources for partial birth abortions

This came up just today with my bosses. One won't vote for Kerry no matter what, but the other might. But she's a gullible thing, and believes that partial birth abortions are done "for the parts."

I forget what the condition is called in fetuses when they're heads have grown so large they are undeliverable, and because of the condition they will not survive. With the fetus survival chance at nil, it doesn't make sense to do a cesarian.

From what I've been told this is a non-issue trumped up by the other side to make anyone who won't vote against it look like a monster. But I'd like a link to back me up. Anybody got one?

[JohnLocke]

10. Well

"Partial-birth" abortion is a trumped-up "issue" the right-wing likes to mention as often as possible. It's a disgusting procedure that only accounts for two percent of abortion. Most of these are for the health of the mother or when there are very serious birth defects. Virtually nobody elects to have this done.

[molly]

16. I had a friend who gave birth to a little girl without a brain

she lived only a few minutes. That was in the 70's when they really did not test for those things. We were pregnant at the same time and had planned for our babies to grow up together. She and her husband suffered pain beyond belief.

[liberal_in_GA]

13. here's a link to one woman's story

http://www.boston.com/news/globe/magazine/articles/2004/01/25/my_late_term_abortion/

You're right--it is a trumped-up issue. The large majority of women who undergo this procedure really wanted to carry to term and deliver.

[RafterMan]

5. Hmmm...

The thing about the "wedge issues" is that the division is already there. People who vote on abortion have already chosen sides, I think.

Plus, I'm not sure I agree with the pundit analysis. Kerry's answer on "partial birth" was very strong. Many people who support the ban support an exception for the life of the mother -- wasn't that Kerry's answer? And I think stem cells is a winning issue for the Dems, though Kerry's answer could have been stronger.

If he sticks with his familiar answers and gets in enough jabs to rattle Bush, it'll be good.

[Booster]

8. That's odd. My friend and I were talking yesterday about

Kerry's answers to abortion and stem cell research and we both thought he gave very good answers, and we hardly ever agree on anything. I wish Kerry had said, re: abortion, that "No president should......" instead of saying "I can't impose my beliefs...." I think that would have been a stronger point, but his answer is the correct and only answer to that question in a free society. I thought Bush's answer on stem cell research was just plain stupid, and sounded extremely selfish, like he's God to decide.

[molly]

12. Kerry should say that any president that takes away

a woman's right to choose will have a civil war. Absolutely NOONE should be able to dictate my body rights - especially a man. * has put women's rights 50 years behind already and I am pissed.

[Bluerthanblue]

31. i agree.... and what

... about the biblical mandate against killing?
(which is what Bush 'supposedly' bases his objection on-)
As anti-abortion bumper stickers say"Abortion stops a beating heart"
well, so does the gas chamber, lethal injection, and the electric chair- not to mention the "colloratal damage" that we have wrought upon thousands and thousands of innocent men, women and children since this administration took over-

Hypocrites- all- i've yet to meet a woman who felt 'good' about making the choice to abort her child- but Bush didn't have too many tears for Carla Faye Tucker- nor have i seen him 'tear up' over the loss of Iraqi and Afghani children....-

Bringing someone to 'justice' by killing them because you 'believe' they are guilty- IS setting yourself up as God- like the people killed by the drone planes in the desert- 'let's just say they won't be bothering anybody any more" he said......

i'm half way through Farenheit 9/11, and had to stop the movie because i was getting so furious and distressed.......
sorry for the rant
and the tangent

[Cats Against Frist]

11. At this point -- he should just explain himself

This is the real rhetoric that John Kerry is missing, and the rhetoric that he could capitalize upon. This is the perfect issue to take back "freedom" from the fascists. He could simply explain that people are free to have their own beliefs, but not impress it upon others. I know it's not a short answer -- but he started to answer it in the last debate. A more well-rounded answer could be good.

We really have to start standing up for something sometime. There's a great argument for not letting the fundies ride roughshod over the Constitution. Kerry needs to make it.

[fugop]

15. Answers could be stronger

His answers to those questions could have been stronger, but they were right on the mark. My pro-life devout Catholic mother thought his answer to the abortion was just right, which shocked the hell out of me. She's voting Kerry, by the way, because she believes, in her faith, that the war trumps the other issues.

[Slamby2002]

18. maybe so...

But you know what? It really doesn't matter because anyone who falls on the right-wing/conservative side of a wedge issue isn't going to be voting for JFK anyway. Those are Chimpy's folks.

I think what we want is for Kerry to use the "common sense" approach like he did in the second debate. Remember when he was asked about the partial-birth abortion issue? JFK simply said.. "I'm against it, except if it endangers the life of the mother." I think if Kerry keep things simple and to the point, with concise answers, there's no problem.

Plus, based on these post-debate polls, to me it looks like people are just getting sick of Chimpy's country-boy act. I mean..he's not even coming close to talking about the real issues. it's almost like he's laughing at Kerry for being concerned about Iraq and our economy. I'm just sensing that people are tired of this.

[newyawker99]

25. Hi Slamby2002!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[DURHAM D]

19. Do you think it is time for Kerry to inform the electorate that a "liberal

is simply someone who wants to move the democratic process forward. That it means greater individual participation in government, not corporate control. That it means letter individual make their own decisions and not be controlled by the government.


Or, should he never ever speak the "L" word.

[Shopaholic]

20. I heard Craig Crawford say on MSNBC

that the burden was on Kerry for the debate because he'd won the last two. Uhm--so the expectations game is that Kerry has to deliver the knock-out blow, so to speak, but as I recall, these very same pundits didn't declare Kerry the winner after the second debate, but said, instead, it was a tie! WTF?

[noamnety]

21. If the abortion issue comes up again

and Kerry steers it to how to prevent unwanted pregnancies, and is specific about the appointment of Hager and Stanford and the rest of the anti-birth control brigade at the FDA he will have his landslide. Talk about Hager recommending biblical passages to cure PMS. He needs to talk about the only pharmacy in town refusing to fill birth control prescriptions, talk about laws to make that more commonplace. Talk about the move to convert federal employees health plans to being faith based.

Only the fringe wants to make birth control illegal again. Birth control is Bush's wedge issue.

And he needs to hammer that home in response to any Bushlies about trial lawyers making health care less accessible. If Bush cared about medical care being accessible, he wouldn't be pursuing laws to make care less accessible. He needs to mention Escanaba, where the only hospital in town refuses to do tubal ligations or insert IUDs.

[MoonRiver]

22. YOU be wary. I'll just continue to know Kerry will win this one

like I KNEW he'd win the last two. Bwahahahahahaha.

[Yunaleska]

23. Wrong

It WAS a coincidence the SCOTUS decided to hear a case involving the 10 commandments. This has been a long time coming due to all the various lower court decisions.

It was NOT a coincidence, however, that it made front page news for the right wing media.

Fortunately they have no material. The case will not be heard until well after the election. All they have is this headline and that's it. They can't run with it for very long.

[newyawker99]

26. Hi Yunaleska!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[DuaneBidoux]

24. Partial Birth Abortion is a Firestorm

My wife worked in a late term abortion clinic in Kansas and trust me, this just ain't the same stuff as most abortion. If I were Kerry I would say that I am absolutely against late term abortion (hey, even Catholic countries like France and Italy who are really pretty secular have limits on 3rd trimester abotions). I would then also go on to say that the bill as written cannot be enforced and is more worthless than no bill because of no exception for the life of the mother and commit himself to coming up with a bill that can pass constitutional scrutiny. Performing abortions on viable fetuses is a tough issue. Kerry must be very careful.

[LiberalFighter]

28. How about... "Mr Schieffer, How long have you been friends with gw*?"

[TexasSissy]

30. His views are what they are. And they are good views. He just needs

to state them clearly and concisely. Let's hope that people will be voting as we THINK they will be...mainly on the economy and Iraq/terrorism. The cultural issues are side issues, except to those who would probably be voting for * anyway.