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[Hailtothechimp]

1. There was a great New Yorker cover to this effect.

And, sad though it is, I think it's how things are in America. This is what George Washington warned about in his Farewell Address.

[Shoeempress]

2. For the ideologues, no, but the vast majority are not. So there is

hope.

[mhr]

3. Sad Reality That Will Lead To Open Civil Disturbance In A Few Years

There is no reconciliation possible as long as the likes of Rush are allowed to spew their hate 24/7.

[Name removed]

4. Deleted message

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[Renew Deal]

5. I think a Kerry win will seriously damage the crazy right.

The problem is that they might come back crazier than ever.

[Booster]

15. I think you're right. If Kerry wins, I believe that the Republican

party will have such infighting that the true conservatives will break away from the right-wing fundamentalists and a Christian 3rd party will be formed. This would be the best thing to happen to this country in years because the right-wing are just dragging all Christians with them, and I really don't believe that true Christians think the same way - at least I hope they don't.

[pinto]

6. Yes there is common ground aplenty, imo.

Something good is going to happen.

[arwalden]

7. I Don't Think Things Will Ever Be The Same...

... the RW-ers have ruined any sense of bipartisanship that might have existed. This country will never be the same again.

-- Allen

[Disturbed]

8. Republican Party...

will fracture after this election no matter who wins. The Neo Fascists, anti-Christ Right Wing and the Paleo-Conservatives are barely keeping this party together. If the Bush Admin. doesn't acceed to the Fundie demands they have threatened to start a 3rd Party. I hope that they do. Isn't the "Constitution Party" Right Wing enough for them?

If it comes down to an actual hot war with these fascists I am willing to be on the barricades.

[arwalden]

10. More Than Once I've Said That Civil Unrest Leading To A Civil War...

... is highly probable if Bush* steals this election too. The United States as we once knew it will permanently CEASE to exist. All will be changed forever. It will be "united" in name only... but permanently fractured and divided.

-- Allen

[welshTerrier2]

9. look at it this way ...

for the sake of unity, could you see yourself yielding to the right on many of the values you hold? i'm sure you cannot ... and those with their bible up their asses, oh, sorry, was that too intolerant, will not yield either ...

little of this ultimately matters though ... because while the mice are fighting over the cheese on the deck, the ship is on fire and sinking ... perhaps, after a significant decline in our national standard of living, the landscape will be so radically changed that we all will be seeking fresh ideas to the big issues of today ...

after all, you can't eat a bible ... we are in for a serious transformation in our lives in the very near future ... multi-national corporations have declared open warfare against us ... we already are seeing the wholesale exporting not just of jobs but of entire companies ... even entire industries ... and for the most part, while some offer solutions, there's a whole lot of shrugging going on ...

free market capitalism has declared war on us and most of us can't see we're under attack yet ... i'm afraid that will soon be changing as the trouble we're in becomes frightfully apparent to all ...

so i guess to directly answer your question, the "cold civil war" is inevitable until a unifying catastrophic event occurs ... unfortunately, we humans only seem to understand the "pack instinct" when we know we're under attack ... we are truly a house divided and we are not very likely to continue standing ...

[peacetalksforall]

11. I call for a bloodless separation. Give the right wing neo-cons and born

agains their own part of the country - make sure they have some kind of access to the sea. Then, if they want to fight a war for some oil on the other side of the world or kill some infidels or rewrite the constitution for their christians and jews - they can do it with their own children.

If peace seeking people are together - the true U.S.-America patriotic side with the original constitution, the enemies of the neo-con, born agains will know where the borders are.

I want my constitution and a truly wise, non-partisan Supreme Court and idealistic leaders.

I wish the neo-con, born again side all the best - it will be a relief not to have to suffer the deaths and casualties of neo-con, born wars.

The side I'm on can sign a pact with all the other nations who are tired of the killing, usury, and take-overs.

[realcountrymusic]

17. Why give them access to the sea?

Okay, they can have the port of Savannah.

From which I hope the fundies will all set sail for the Middle East for their apocalypse.

Don't let them back in.

RCM

[T Town Jake]

30. "usury"? Jeeze Louise you've got to be kidding... (n/t)

[peacetalksforall]

44. Usury = IMF banking and coersion policies against many countries.

[tedoll78]

12. The thing is, it won't last forever.

Look at the electoral map. We pretty much have a lock on the northeast, the west coast, Illinois, and Michigan. That easily gets us to over 210 electoral votes.

Next, add Florida. Add Arizona, New Mexico, Pennsylvania, and Nevada.

We're suddenly at 279.

Then consider swing states such as Minnesota, Iowa, Wisconsin, and Ohio.. they hold 47EVs, and they could easily serve as padding for us.

Demographic change is what I'm poking around. We see it already happening in the southwest. We see it happening in Florida. At some point near in the future, that second list of states is going to be solid blue. The GOP will pretty much have the South and the Upper Rockies.

We'll find ourselves in a scenario where we have a large edge in the Electoral College. I think that the Right knows this, and that this is their last gasp in the culture wars. They know that, should they lose, they can probably kiss the Supreme Court goodbye for a good 30 years.

So what will the religious fundamentalists do to cope?
Seek to concentrate power in Congress? It might work in the House.. but not forever.
Move the Republican Party further to the middle? This might not be an acceptable alternative to them.
Violence? I wouldn't put it past some of them.

So, yes, we're divided right now. But change is coming soon. Very soon.

[RaleighNCDUer]

13. That's what I'm worried about. As much is riding on this election

for them as for us.

If they lose, they lose big time and they know it.

Will they unleash their WMDs if they're backed in a corner? What are these fascists capable of?

[grasswire]

14. what they fear most..

....is loss of white majority. That's what drives much of their mania.

[tedoll78]

16. You bet.

Assuming that Caucasians, African Americans, and Hispanics rougly maintain their current voting patterns, the Republicans are well aware that their days of winning elections nationwide are numbered. They have good reason to be desperate.

[TexasThoughtCriminal]

25. This is EXACTLY why they redistricted Texas

Tom DeLay knew that the next legal chance to redistrict Texas would be after the 2010 census for the 2012 congressional races. By then the state would be too "brown" for Republicans. Therefore by forcing a mid-decade garrymander, they could lock in a Repuke majority, at least through the end of this decade.

[BMJ]

20. *DING* *DING *DING* We have a winner!

[kaitykaity]

23. One of them in his own words

We want all racist America-hating filth otta here. It's gonna happen
eventually, it's evolution. You have chosen...unwisely.



Was his answer to this question:
>"We will get America back."
>
>What more do you fuckwads want exactly? You have
>the presidency, you have the House, you have the Senate,
>you have the Supreme Court, you have talk radio, you
>have cable television.
>
>What? Do you want to be able to take all of us impure,
>unclean, evil people -- the ones you call vile names in
>all of your posts -- and put us somewhere? You know,
>like a camp or a prison or an over or something?
>
>What more do you fuckers want?

[realcountrymusic]

19. I think you're right

And when the Southwest is majority Mexican-American, we may get Texas.

I think they do see the end and at best are trying to hold on for one more generation with THIS VERY ELECTION. It's why they are so inflamed. And why we are too. For those of us with kids, *everything* is on the damn line now.

I will seriously try to move my family out of the US if Bush wins. I love this country, but I love my family more.

RCM

[peacetalksforall]

21. If we can win...it's a short ride if two things happen -

...the neo-cons don't go away - we now know what they were doing for the eight years of the Clinton reign...planning and trying to: assasinate a duly elected president by character and phoney morality - steal the presidency - divide up the ME - set up a timetable for imperialism and theft of earth resources - set up the military to reign.

...a good per cent of Dems are not going to happy if Kerry is too centrist or leans right as he does with Israel, Venez, Cuba, etc. or if he allows the war lovers and corporations to retain their reign or if he maintains any kind of intrusive anti-bill of rights actions as we've witnessed with Ashcroft. Or - if he doesn't work for the people.

[Morning Dew]

38. It pains me every time I see Minnesota as a swing state -

this is not my Minnesota anymore - not the MN I know and love anyway.

[Roon]

18. Cold civil war..

that is an excellent way to describe the state of the country right now. I just hope it doesn't escalate.

[LoZoccolo]

22. I prefer Barack Obama's speech to any red vs. blue rhetoric.

The pundits like to slice-and-dice our country into Red States and Blue States; Red States for Republicans, Blue States for Democrats. But I’ve got news for them, too. We worship an awesome God in the Blue States, and we don’t like federal agents poking around our libraries in the Red States. We coach Little League in the Blue States and have gay friends in the Red States. There are patriots who opposed the war in Iraq and patriots who supported it. We are one people, all of us pledging allegiance to the stars and stripes, all of us defending the United States of America.

http://www.dems2004.org/site/apps/nl/content3.asp?c=luI2LaPYG&b=125925&ct=158769

[secular_warrior]

29. I like Obama - but that's pollyanna

It's all well and good to be optimistic, but the reality we face is one of a divided America, where there will be a clear winner and a clear loser.

[LoZoccolo]

32. Well, I guess that one sentence takes care of it all then.

:eyes:

[RevCheesehead]

39. America remains divided if the LEADERSHIP remains divided.

And good ol' chimpy dared to claim "I'm a uniter, not a divider." Come to think of it, he probably read it wrong: I'm an untier, not a divider."

Truly good leadership knows how to bring people together. And everyone around the world hoped that we could pull it together after 9/11. Bush's critical mistake was in pushing his own agenda, rather than building a consensus and moving forward. Stupid, stupid, stupid!

[Qanisqineq]

48. I like Obama's statement, too

I get tired of people acting like blue states are made up entirely of liberals and red states made up entirely of conservatives. Sweeping generalizations of any one or any place will never get us anywhere.

[gulliver]

24. The common ground is the truth -- as always.

You just have to look at the fruits of the Bush administration and you know which side is right about him. Republicans know it too. They aren't as scornful of Democrats this time around. They know their boy screwed the pooch.

[BillZBubb]

26. The cold civil war is here and it's staying.

The left has been apathetic and disorganized for a long while. That changed after the 2000 theft. Now, finally, there is some fight and unity in the left.

The fanatical right and the fundamentalists are organized and motivated. They won't change their beliefs. They won't stop trying to dominate every aspect of American life.

Our only hope is for a fracture to develop between the two right wing factions. In fact the Democrats should be working to make that happen.

Things will only get nastier in American politics until a unifying national emergency arises and a leader is in place who truly is a uniter not a divider.

[Ladyhawk]

42. Two remaining members of my nuclear family represent a microcosm...

...of the two factions of the right: fundamentalist and greedy Ayn Rand objectivist.

I've been tempted to experiment to see what would get them to turn against each other. They already don't much like the lone liberal (me). I'm tempted, but I still need some familial stability.

[RaleighNCDUer]

45. A good fracture to exploit? How many of these RW fundamentalists

know about Bush and Moon's mutual admiration society? Can they really believe that a man who honors a self-proclaimed messiah is a true christian? Why don't people know about this?

[secular_warrior]

27. Why should we be the ones looking for common ground ?

I don't want any compromise with these thugs. Compromise is what Blue America has been doing for 40 years. Compromise is what has gotten us to this point. Red America has no qualms about destroying us - when will Blue America wake up and realize this ?

For me, there is only one acceptable outcome: we win - they lose.

The demographics and the trends are against them anyway. Soon our electoral base will be bigger than theirs. The current era is the high point for Red America. There is virtually no scenario where their base doesn't decline from this point on. Were it not for 9-11, they would not have nearly as much power as they have now. Bush ran as a moderate in 2000. 9-11 didn't change the fundamentals, only slowed it down.

[rndmprsn]

28. metro vs retro

http://www.retrovsmetro.org/

the country's fault lines run very very deep...like john zogby said today on lou dobbs...we're really two country's that don't like each other much...the new un-civil war

[Doctor_J]

31. i think it will warm up considerably in the next 4 years

regardless of who wins next month. If we take the WH and Senate, I believe that the hate radio mavens will incite the mouth-breathers to violence against us. If * wins, the economy will collapse, and the rest of the civilized world will lose its last little bit of patience with our fascist regime and start treating us like a hostile nation, with sanctions and maybe bombs - "we have to fight the americans over there so we don't have to fight them here".

[redstateblues]

33. At Some Point The World Will Unite Against Us If We Continue

To invade countries on false or trumped up reasons

[Teaser]

34. They are the enemy.

I no longer want common ground.

I want them defeated.

[Vincardog]

35. Elect Kerry Retake OUR Government. Investigate and TRY the Fascists

[leftofthedial]

36. I think it is a reality, although . . .

there is a large majority that are disengaged from the political process. Kerry (or more correctly the anti-Bush groundswell) is mobilizing many of them, but I doubt they'll stay involved much past the election.

The 10% or so of the population on either end of the spectrum or those who are otherwise energized about politics will continue to wage cold war.

Unfortunately, the bad guys own the means of communicating with and shaping the opinions of the big bolus in the middle. They've turned millions of them into irrational, deluded, aggressively ignorant participants in their own enslavement.

[TankLV]

37. I believe we are about 1 or 2 presidential terms away from hostile, "hot"

civil war - just like in the decades preceeding the last Civil War.

Only this one will be very brutal, and long, indeed.

The sophisticated weapons are a major reason.

And I fear the outcome will be more like after the French and Russian Revolutions, and the English Civil War with Cromwell than our last one.

What was once "america" will become a blend of Nazi Germany and Stalinist Russia, with a little of Cromwell's England and Mexico and Chile and Argintina thrown in for good measure.

Another totally unique "american" experiment - that will be reviled throughout history.

And I can emphathize and understand all the reasons for literally obliterating the aristocracy and ruling classes that happened last time.

I believe that should a HOT civil war break out - it will be long and bloody and "underground" without the benifit of formal armies fighting each other.

Even if Kerry wins, we may see another assination, and if that doesn't happen, we will see all of the evil - yes evil - repukes going back into their hidey-holes to plan all sorts of gruesome things. They will never give up easily till every last one of them is destroyed forever.

I see home-grown resistance blowing up power grids and broadcasting stations, or even kidnapping "newscasters", etc. - creating havoc for daily life that will insite the sheeple against the patriots at first.

Think IRA and their polar opposites, or the Israli-Palistinians on a vast continental scale.

We are past the stage of the start of the "cold" civil war - that began sometime during the Reagan era.

I do not see a Philippine-type revolution that ousted Marcos peacefully - Amerikkkans are too spoiled to notice or care - at first.

Sorry, but from what I have been reading and hearing from the other side, I do not feel good about the future.

I hope I am terribly wrong and paranoid.

[JohnnyCougar]

40. actually, I said the same thing to my friend today

This is going to get worse before it gets better. Unless Kerry is elected, and can somehow hold this country together. Bush certainly can't. If it happens, I am ready to fight for what I believe in.

[The Wielding Truth]

41. I'd say you were wrong, but

I thought we were way past outright war and look at us. I thought we had trained elite informed counter-terrorists to protect us. I thought we had learned from Vietnam that you must be straight with the public because they will catch on to lies.I thought the UN was there to help us maintain a safe world. Silly how some country music plain talk money and the old Barry Goldwater mindset can boomerang us right back to the 50's.Even Barry grew up. Grow up Lil'w.He'll ahve time outside the Whitehouse.Let's get serious--Vote Kerry.

[RaleighNCDUer]

46. That's what McVeigh said he was trying to do -- fire the opening

shot of his "Turner Diaries" civil war.

The militias have been quiet, but they haven't gone away.

It's almost enough to make me re-think my position on guns. An AR15 may be useless against government tanks, but it could be effective against militia weaponry.

[Arugula Latte]

43. Blue was the color of the good side in 1861.

It still is.

I will never forgive these people for what they have done to this country in the past 20 years.

I will fight these people tooth and nail.

They are my enemies, not my fellow countrymen.

George Bush is not my president.

[LuminousX]

47. End the Culture War

We need a resurgence of American pragmatism and an end to mealy-mouthed politics. We are too caught up on language and not focused enough on actions. We've been fighting a war using symbols and have allowed the symbols to become the focus of the war. It isn't about the 10 Commandments, it is about how it impedes other people's rights, it isn't about not caring about the sanctity of life, but about who's life takes precedent.

Our side can't stop until their side stops and vice versa. And even if a truce is called, you'll still have the Lynn Cheney's fighting the fight and stirring up problems.

Only a true non-partisan movement that has a large following from all sides can shut down the culture war. Until then, we will continue to battle and waste resources, a cloud of sound and fury signifying nothing.