Ouch. Bush got 'im on the Gulf War I vote

[WilliamPitt]

[disgruntled_goat]

1. ok now youre just trolling

:P

[okieinpain]

3. nope I agree he got kerry on that one. 1st one tonight.

[Roland99]

33. That vote was 52-47...BARELY passed...for GOOD reason:

The satellite imagery the Bush I showed with Iraqi forces and tanks on the Saudi/Kuwaiti border were FAKES!!

[progressivebydesign]

2. What is your trip tonight? Strong coffee might be good. n/t

[MissB]

5. His last thread

was probably questionable, until one figured out that he was saying that this was Bush's best performance and it is pitiful.

[Guaranteed]

4. Freeper!

;)

Nah, you're right, score one for Bush.

At least it ain't a shutout. You kind of feel sorry for the guy.

[Shadow30]

6. so its Bush 1 Kerry 50

[librechik]

7. Let me guess: this Halloween you're going as the Devil's Advocate?

Harsh.

[ladybugg33]

8. Yep! Kerry did right by not following up.

But if he is pushed he should just say, in hindsight, "my vote turned out to be wrong. I can admit it."

[WilliamPitt]

11. He wasn't given the chance to follow up

[venus]

31. Kerry's vote on Gulf I was right on. One of the few issues

I can wholeheartedly agree with him on.

[rumguy]

9. All he had to do was bring it up, no?

And that's all he did...

I've never heard Kerry explain this vote.

Freeper....

[joshcryer]

10. He only got it because it was a 30 second question.

With no response. That's the only reason.

[Ladyhawk]

12. Who are you and what have you done with William Rivers Pitt? :)

[bagnana]

13. NO HE DID NOT. That was an idiotic remark

He said that Kerry had to pass a global test to take action. Then he said Kerry didn't listen to the international coalition in 90 and voted against action. It was completely nonsensical. HAHAHAHAH

[seabeyond]

14. yes butttt.then he sits there with a stupid look on his face.

and no one says or does anything for 5 sec while he looks stupid. so it null and voids that

[incapsulated]

15. You're oversensitive tonight

Kerry is doing great. Very assertive. Bush is just being his normal idiot self.

Debate goes to Kerry.

[WilliamPitt]

17. I agree across the board

but I can also see a blow landed when it happens.

[BootinUp]

18. I've been waiting for that one since February.

Kerry had many more blows landed though.

[Bread and Circus]

27. Yeah, actually that was a good one...but Kerry dropped it and

it's not become much of a talking point for some reason.

I guess it's one of those things hiding in plain sight.

[MichiganVote]

16. Who cares. The vote is history. The reasons for the vote are

alive and well, even if dumber than a box of rocks

[Mr_Spock]

19. Wow, welcome to planet Earth - been rehashed 1000 times - you are trolling

lol

[frank frankly]

20. correct

that was a clean hit.

[fujiyama]

21. Gotta agree

I wish Kerry had responded, but I think few didn't know by now that he voted against the first Gulf War.

Overall, I thought Kerry did better than the second debate but not as great as that first one, which was a blowout.

[RafterMan]

22. What are you, some Freeper troll?

Okay, maybe not.

Let's reopen that debate. A twelve-year war, bogged down in Gulf politics, Doha towers, Osama bin Laden...might sanctions not have been cleaner?

What was gained in the Gulf War was given back in Somalia. GWI was a tar pit, and President Kerry saw it coming.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

23. The right vote, at the right time, for the right reason.

Now 2003... :freak:

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

24. Honestly? I think the experience of Gulf War II (Electric Shrubaloo) has

caused many to look back on Gulf War I with a considerably less rose colored perspective.

I think most can appreciate that it was "professionally handled" in a way totally unlike the current debacle in building a true coalition and overwhelming victory, and the avoidance of quagmire... But I think many have probably reconsidered the relative merit of the cause overall even if still overall supporting it.

And many more discerning, questioning readers have learned more causing them to question some of the propaganda underpinnings of THAT war ("babies torn from incubators")...

[kentuck]

25. Yep, but Bush brought it up at the wrong time....

there was no more discussion time on the question... :)

[TheKingfish]

26. Newb here i swear im not a freeper

Yea i guess thats a point for Bush. Its little known though that Colin Powell was against war before sanctions had longer to take affect.

[LynnTheDem]

28. I disagree.

Complicated issue but ONLY FIVE VOTES got us into that bullshit war.

And it was a bullshit war, based on a solid pack of lies. And if ya'll think we did/are doing war crimes now -which we most definitely are- learn about the massive war crimes we committed then.

For lies.

ONLY FIVE VOTES got us into that war; the Senate final vote was 52-47; and of those 5 votes, 7 Senators said their yes votes were based on the "incubator babies" story which we all SHOULD know by now was 100% absolute and total BULLSHIT.

[eridani]

29. It would have taken Kerry way too long to explain

The first war was unnecessary. Saddam had just dropped all 'linkage' requirements, and was prepared to turn tail. At that point, WMD inspections (which turned out to have been very effective) could have been imposed in addition to the condition of withdrawal from Kuwait.

[Bluerthanblue]

30. Kerry was right then-

i protested that war even more vigorusly than i did this one-
(i was younger then)
We were sold a bill of goods then- and we're paying the debts now-
That war was Cheney's 'golden globe' award-

how to sanitize, and sanctify the actions of a corrupt administration- and 'bring' the 'rest of the world' along for the 'ride'-

[LynnTheDem]

34. ABSOLUTELY!

And THOUSANDS of US troops are still suffering from the horrors committed; THOUSANDS are ill and incapacitated; THOUSANDS ARE DEAD from suicides, murder-suicides, disease & illness from that WAR OF TOTAL BULLSHIT LIES.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

32. Kerry didn't follow up because Bush's charge lacked punch

Bush didn't say it in any way that made Kerry look like a glaze eyed peacenik, but he certainly had the chance to- Bush just used the wrong words. In fact he seemed oddly relieved- like a puppy just performed a new trick and looking for master's approval. He barely remembered to get it out there, and didn't use any devestating phraseology.

Back to the substance of the charge: Kerry felt more time was needed to get support back home- clearly a throwover from his VVAW mindset, but as I also counter when I hear this- that the war was rushed is evident in all the oil wells being set ablaze. This was an oversight that could have been better planned for.

[fob]

35. Here's his answer that he didn't give...

9/11 changed everything.

I thought that was a point for shrub too until the freepazoids started calling in on cspan afterwards and one of the dumbasses made it a point of their own to say that bush* did great but he forgot to say that Kerry voted against Operation Desert Storm. So I guess chimpy* wasn't so clear afterall.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

38. See what I mean? Bush wasn't able to score a direct hit

If he had said it better he could have really put Kerry in an uncomfortable spot.
As it was, it came out of the piehole as some convoluted reference to "voting against the biggest international coalition ever".... or something like that.

[Harlan James]

36. The correct response would have been...

"If Saddam is so evil, why did your father leave him in power after we had so decisively defeated his armies?"

[KoKo]

37. Kerry's strategy was to flick Bush off his shirt cuff, like an annoyance.

A non-answer to Bush attack was the way one treats a nuisance.

I think though that for most of us wanting a "stronger style" and more points to be made against Bush..the debate was lacking.

But, it focused on RW Christian Evangelical issues, and maybe exposed them for what they are.

Some of us hoped for more, but attacking the attack dogs is NOT the Kerry or Party strategy. We have to live with it, and figure it will work, because it's all we have. :shrug:

Howard Dean is still out there, though...:D