I don't think Kerry won this debate...

[Raven]

the two may have tied, but I did not think that Kerry nailed it. First of all, whatever medication thay are now giving Bush is working more effectively. He was more controlled and less the idiot.. Second, there were some important things left on the table the most important being Bush's reference to Kerry's vote against the first Iraq war. Don't get me wrong, Kerry did a masterful job but Bush didn't dither and he scored some points.

Maybe my expectations for Kerry were too high going into tonight or maybe my expectations for Bush were too low. My bottom line is that Kerry may have swung a few undecideds but GWB made some inroads too. The real battle will be in getting out the vote...that is where this election is now. EVERYBODY! GET INVOLVED ON THE GROUND! because that will be the ballgame...there have to be more of us VOTING than there are of them. SIMPLE AS THAT, BELIEVE ME!

[carrowsboy]

1. he absolutely did!

52% - Kerry

39% - Bush

Take you doom & gloom somewhere else...tonight was a great victory!

[Raven]

23. Tonight is not election night.

I don't pay much attention to the polls. Heed my advice...get the hell out there and get out the goddamned vote!

[bush equals idiot]

102. You were watching the PRESIDENTIAL debate???

Bush couldn't have done much worse if he didn't show up!!

[LynnTheDem]

2. Yes, bush definitely LIED much better this time.

But he LIED. And LIED. And LIED AND LIED AND LIED.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

3. Nonsense.

Rot.
Piffle.
Kerry won hands down; even freepazoid Bushbot Bill Snide on CNN conceded that.

[jdots]

47. Bush was at his demented best

tonight i listened on the radio to just hear the debate and Kerry kicked his ass.Just the tone of Bush's voice paints a picture of a very foolish and deceptive scum bag.......Kerry 68 Bush 32 in a blind test....toss in the visual give aways of Bush and he comes up around 14 which is the age he behaves at.

[Maiden England]

4. He didn't win. HE CRUSHED

[JusticeForAll]

7. Agreed, KERRY WON!!!!

[Democrat 4 Ever]

10. I don't think you watched tonight's debate. Kerry crushed

Chimpy on every subject. Hands down. Period.

[LondonReign2]

78. Crushed, Crushed, Crushed

Kerry destroyed him on every question from a polciy prosepctive. The idoit talking heads are STILL focused on style in this debate, but Americans will hear from this debate that Kerry actually cares about them while Bush advocates...Community College???!??? WTF!?!?!?

[FatSlob]

5. Not a convincing victory, if a victory...very close.

This election is going down to the wire.

[CHICKEN CAPITOL USA]

41. they'd have you believe that at least

It's obvious to me that well over half of this population has to see Shrub for what he is.
The media corporations want us to think it's"real close" so when they throw in the FIX at the electronic polls (courtesy of Diebold) the people don't revolt in the streets.
The "fix" will keep those sweet tax cut coming for the multi-billion dollar media industry...
another 4 years of misery for everyone else,...esp the soldiers and 18 yr old draftees.

[RetroLounge]

6. I think Kerry won

and when more of bush*'s lies get exposure, for example, hios Osama gaffe, the spin wil go even more in Kerry favor.

But VERY good advice:

"The real battle will be in getting out the vote...that is where this election is now. EVERYBODY! GET INVOLVED ON THE GROUND! "

RL

[The Wielding Truth]

8. WHATTT! He is the President! He is so credible.

[whistle]

9. Except for the foam in the corners of Bush's mouth which was a dead....

...give away that he was given speed for the debate

[RebelYell]

75. He was crankin' n/t

[fishwax]

11. Kerry won handily

And that's reflected in the scientific polls of undecideds.

But you're right about one thing: it's time to get to work on the ground. 20 days ... let's bring this thing HOME!

[sandnsea]

12. You really want to win?

Wow, didn't know the way to win was to knock your guy around. Interesting strategy.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

I Guess Bush Won Because He Didn't Foul Himself (nt)

[okieinpain]

93. funny, but true. that's what it's coming down too.

[opihimoimoi]

44. Bush lost tonight because his 3ed Face emerged on stage, front and CENTER

He was a different Bush...even as the 2nd one was from the 1st.

The 3 Faces of Bush, which do you trust?


Kerry; consistent steady, tenacious, courageous, forth right, timing, clarity, continuity, voice control, tone of voice, intelligent.

Poor Bush; repetitive, canned phrases, canned audiences, canned "LOOK". equates to::::

Confusion among the Stepford Sheep, which face to believe.....

[Raven]

45. Excuse me but, I am not preaching to the converted here...

I was expressing an opinion which I have considered welcome here and I was also making the important point that we have to go to the ground and get the vote out. Now, if you have a problem with that...I don't get it and I'll talk to you the day after when we just didn't get people to the polls. Do you understand that after everyone spouts off about what they think and how bright they are, that if you don't get people to pull the lever for your guy, you are shit and really very stupid? Do you get that???

[sandnsea]

56. We have 3 weeks for that

Tonight is the night to support our guy. Period. That's how we won Iowa.

[Andromeda]

71. I don't understand your thread...

and I don't like your pessimistic, defeatist attitude. We are supposed to feel good that Kerry won the debate and celebrate the fact that he was presidential, presented the facts and that he did that three times.

It's not Nov. 2nd yet and I think we are all fired up to vote on election day so why don't you save your negativity for someone who's interested.

Geez, lighten up, will ya?

[Endangered Specie]

13. Pardon my while I get the *FLAME*-thrower

[donco6]

24. No kidding.

Raven's just being a contrarian to get a flame thread moving.

[Endangered Specie]

29. Damn shame the ignore thread function isnt working.

[donco6]

Yes. Oh well.

What is it about getting ripped to shreds that seems to appeal to so many people?

[Raven]

49. No, really I'm not.

I've been working everyday for Kerry up here. I am being realistic, I think. :-)

[Carson]

61. I agree.

I don't think it was a slam-dunk for Kerry. A tie or marginal win, perhaps.

You had to know you'd get flamed hard for this. Realism and dissension of opinion, sometimes, have no place on DU. ;-)

[Dem_Loyalist]

80. I don't believe that for a second

DU is all about open discussion and free expression of ones views. Progressives are the guarantors of freedom of speech in our country.

(edited spelling typo)

[Selwynn]

117. Joined June 18, 2004.

You really have a long history to speak from there, champ.

[Carson]

125. You illustrated my point. Thanks. n/t

[Selwynn]

127. You're quite welcome. I'm glad you appreciate the help.

I have no problem helping you illustrate your "point" if your point is that maybe people should be a member and contributor in this community for more than a couple months before waxing eloquent about how well they "know" the community and what it does or doesn't do. I have no problem if your "concern" over the intolerance of opinion has to do with less weight being given to the opinion of people who haven't be around very long when it comes to the subject of trends and patterns of DU culture.

By the way tiger, INTOLERANCE for other people's views would be if DU locked threads that said Bush won the debates or stopped you from posting your point of view. What you're complaining about is the fact taht the majority of DUers don't happen to agree with certain points of view sometimes. That's not "intolerance" - that's just disagreement. And they have a right to their opinion, too. Are you suggesting people who disagree with the original poster, shouldn't have the priviledge of voicing their disagreement? Sounds pretty intolerant to me. :)

Toodles,
Sel

[ParanoidPat]

95. Un huh, yeah, right, whatever you say.......

.....are you sure you saw the same debate the rest of us saw? :shrug:

Do lies and distortions count in the way you score debates? :evilgrin:

[Zing Zing Zingbah]

105. Oh..so that's the game.

[Shadow30]

14. Bush got caught in a lie and twisted every...

...question he didn't like into education,what the hell did not meeting with the NAACP have to do with education?Bush may have done better but he still made some major blunders,Bush as good as Kerry no way,Kerry won.

[newsguyatl]

15. more controlled?

what debate were YOU watching?

[GaryL]

46. Oh No!

He's beginning to look like an uncle of mine who talked to himself an pissed his pants.

[prayin4rain]

16. God I am so sick of this...

How in the hell ANYONE can say this with a straight face AMAZES me. I hope this is an elaborate joke.

[Swamp Rat]

17. John Kerry won the debate.

Geaux Kerry!

[Machiavelli05]

18. Our man did it

Kerry won

[Uzybone]

19. what points did Bush win on?

none IMO. Can anyone who thinks this was a tie or a Bush win tell me where he won?

[Zynx]

20. He crushed Bush. Bush may have seemed confident, but he was lying like mad

[Cha]

34. Just shows what a good little

sociopath he is.

[bloom]

21. Bush* still looked/talked/acted like an idiot

you must be getting used to it or something.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

22. CNN: 52-39 for Kerry.

[Booster]

25. I think Kerry won, but what's wrong is there may have been

one too many debates. Basically, both sides spouted the exact same thing in all 3, so this last debate really should have been a fist fight so we would have a real manly winner. I think Kerry could take Bush in that also, by the way.

[Cha]

26. bill schneider is giving it to

Kerry! And a few other pundits and some polls on the networks!

[booksenkatz]

27. Snatching defeat from the jaws of victory, I see.

Why create gloom when you don't need to? There will be plenty of time for this kinda navel gazing and self-analysis AFTER we win the election.

[JCMach1]

28. Wrong!

Look for my commentary shortly on my website...

[sonicx]

30. Kerry crushed him.

the questions sucked, but he delt with it fine.

[Sparkly]

31. I couldn't disagree more

Kerry chose how to use each second he had available, and he didn't go back to the point about the first Gulf war by conscious choice. There were far more important issues in the questions that he chose to address directly, and I think he was absolutely right not to take the Chimp's bait on that one and get into another foreign policy debate on the defense, instead staying on offense in the context of this domestic policy debate.

I think Kerry was absolutely amazing -- best debate performance I've ever seen, by anybody, anytime, running for anything.

[Cha]

39. Period. End of Story!

:toast:

[texasmom]

32. Kerry definitely won,

and he has exceeded my hopes for his performances. I just have been blown away by him the past few weeks.

I am so proud and hopeful right now.

[SammyWinstonJack]

69. Right?

You and me both! :-)

[LTR]

33. Bush was okay, but Kerry nailed it

Kerry was much more assertive and clear than he's ever been. He kept much of the same strategy as before, and turned it up a notch as well. Very good performance.

Bush improved as well, or as well as he could possibly improve. Still sounded like a door to door vacuum cleaner salesman though. Too much giggling and smirking. That was a turn-off. I'll admit he did a decent job on some of the personal questions, and fell on his ass on minimum wage and immigration. The man just wasn't as confident as Kerry. Kerry kept his poker face, and never let himself get intimidated. He was stone cold cool.

Bush's lemmings could claim their guy won, but they hold him to lower standards. They just didn't want him to embarass himself. Kerry was held to very high standards, and he exceeded them.

Simply put, Kerry 3-0!!!

[slinkerwink]

35. wtf are you on? I thought KErry won!

[theHandpuppet]

36. What debate were YOU watching?

Kerry won this debate by at least ANSWERING THE QUESTIONS THAT WERE POSED!

Bush: Dodged question on Roe v Wade
Bush: Dodged question on minimum wage
Bush: Dodged question on affirmative action

I could go on, but Bush spent so much time dodging the questions with a litany of non sequiturs that there was no there, there.

[madmom]

37. pundits said bush won...

last week because he did better, will probably say the same thing this week. The problem with that is he wasn't debating himself, if he was then he won tonight, but against Kerry I don't think so.

[meti57b]

38. Kerry blew the flu question ....

answers:

1. Flu vaccine should be made in the US. Preventing a flu pandemic is part of "homeland security".

2. How does the bush administration expect to protect us from chemical and biological weapons when they cannot even protect us from the flu.

[Booster]

94. Yep, and when Bush said they/we could get them from Canada

Kerry should have nailed his hide to the wall after saying drugs from Canada might kill ya.

[oldtime dfl_er]

100. "The president just told you not to get a flu shot...

...is that the kind of concern and response you want from your president?" I wish Kerry had said that, right after smirky's "The best thing you can do is not get a shot this year".

[TankLV]

40. Very unsatisfying debate.

Kerry didn't win - but bunkerboy did worse.

It's like the steam was let out of the sails, not to mix metaphors!

The format and questions were really lame.

[secular_warrior]

Agree. The questions were extremely lame - flu vaccine? Huh ?

The candidates both had to try to veer off of Schieffer;s lame questions and onto what they (and the voters) really want to talk about. Most of Schieffer's questions were softball and boring, IMO.

[MADem]

129. That FLU VACCINE RESPONSE WAS INCREDIBLE

No one is picking up on this, but WEEWEE said that the vaccine from our ally, ENGLAND was BAD, so we had to go ask CANADA to make more for us.

CANADA--the land where WEEWEE won't let OLD PEOPLE buy DRUGS because they are UNSAFE??? Come ON--they're good enough for FLU VACCINE, but not good enough for granma's blood pressure meds?

I laughed my ass off when I heard that statement, and I am shocked, SHOCKED, that the lame stream media has not picked up on it.

Please spread the point around at every opportunity, friends!

[sonicx]

63. yes, the questions sucked but Kerry stil won

[Road Scholar]

42. Damn!!!!! You must be......

smokin' the freakin' curtains again! :shrug:

[bigtree]

43. Is this the attitude you use while canvassing?

just wonderin' :eyes:

[Joe Turner]

48. Kerry again Kicked Shrub's A$$

No doubt about it. 3 for 3. game, set, match. Polls are already confirming.

Anyone notice that Dazed Look Shrub had throughout the debate. Like he was off in some far distant land? The look of someone who is not quite in the game?

Kerry continually pointed out Shrub's record of failure on the economy, health care, education, trade, Iraq, protecting our borders, capturing Osama bin Laden etc. and all Shrub could do is lie and call Kerry Liberal.. LOL

It ain't gonna sell in the Heartland that's for sure.

[pretzel4gore]

50. bush is so patently awful his win

really dooms his supporters....lol, and kerry? his loss is really a win for us, as it appears kerry will remain loyal to the system, and he respects the bush gang despite their being criminals, and will work 18 hrs/day for years to fixup mess the 'pukes left, even as those same pukes plot to destroy kerry or his family/friends/supporters; kerry will remain a gentle man and maybe he'll be another 'best pres' the republicans could want, while giving them a target for their righteous wrath....
now kerry's going on orielly factor i hear.....after going on dr phill .....whynot go on rush limbaugh show? they need the business.....

[shrike]

51. The real loser of the night was Schieffer

Everyone at my house agreed that the last half hour was nothing but softballs for *.

BTW, I think Kerry won. So far, it looks like the polls agreed with me.

[Pig_Latin_Lover]

62. NO environmental questions

Absolutely none. That bothered me.

They also went soft on stem-cells, maybe it was conscious because Christopher Reeve died. Michael J. Fox was in the audience, for those who didn't notice, sitting next to Thereza.

[hansolsen]

86. Right on. Schieffer was the only one of the four mods who let his

personal bias affect his work. He had weak, wierd questions overall, and gave Shrub some hanging softballs. There is no question that was intentional because Schieffer has run Face the Nation like a Bush lobby for the last four years.

Schieffer loves his West Texas buddy, George Bush, and it showed tonight. That was very disappointing, but not at all surprising.

[MADem]

112. Well shucks, yea...his brother is a Bush appointee n/t

[DefenseLawyer]

52. W's Roe v Wade waffle

may be his biggest mistake ultimately. His inability to say concretely that he wanted Roe overturned was not what his evangelical base was waiting to hear.

[secular_warrior]

53. I was disappointed Kerry didn't answer some charges, but he still won

a clear victory, IMO, and I'm not one of these people who marches in line when the DU jackboots/denmothers try to enforce the company line. I thought Kerry won the first debate decisively, the second was a tie, and he won this won decisively, although less decisively than the first. I thought Cheney beat Edwards in the VP debate.

I think Kerry should've answered Bush on the Gulf War charge and the "left of Ted Kennedy" charge. Kerry ceded the point to Bush by just leaving it on the table, and I thought he should've responded forcefully. It could come back to hurt him a little in conservative swing areas - we don't know yet.

Other than that Kerry clearly won. His body language and command of issues was superior - Bush was almost as bad with his facial expressions as the first debate, although improved command of issues. Kerry came across as having more gravitas and intelligence than Bush. He came across more presidential, as a true uniter with plans to fix things. Bush came across a petty and condescending divider, almost as if it was personal against Kerry. I think Kerry made the sale and it will affect the polls.

[nostamj]

54. good lord woman,... the chimp LAUGHED

through the entire thing. sickening.

everything is a JOKE to this POS.

if the extremes of *'s sick behavior were less, it was just a more focused and monolithic pathology.

it's ALL a JOKE.... hUh HuH hUh....

[Reciprocity]

55. This is the type of thread freepers love.

Way to go Raven.

[Pig_Latin_Lover]

57. Sort of agree. It wasn't a clear win

Firstly, Kerry definitely beat Bush as far as point-by-point talking goes. I agreed with most of what Kerry had to say and Bush had some very poor responses from my point-of-view.

But, I also watch these debates from the perspective of the "dumbed down" American that gets their news from Tom Brokaw or Dan Rather. The person who forms their political views based on what Tim Russert says. I don't think that person was impressed by either candidate tonight, and in fact, was rather bored.

Kerry didn't deliver the knockout blow tonight, and may now be vulnerable to the Rovebots tomorrow until Election Day. Let's hope Kerry can speak to the masses.

[bush equals idiot]

106. The debate was over

as soon as he said he didn't remember he didn't care about Bin Laden.

All the rest was just frosting and continuing of his journey to Stoopidville. It was a rout. Watch the polls next couple days and the newspaper endorsements flood in for Kerry.

[Placebo]

58. JOHN KERRY WON THIS DEBATE HANDS DOWN.

I don't know what planet YOU'RE living on.

[Anarcho-Socialist]

59. I don't understand the 'Bush* didn't barf and so he won' line.

[necso]

60. Raven

is correct about getting out the vote.

Time to start the final ground offensive -- which is where we win or lose.

[John Q. Citizen]

91. Amen, nesco

[UrbScotty]

64. I don't think the St. Louis Cardinals won the NL Division Series.

See my point?

[doni_georgia]

What debate did you watch?? Kerry wiped the floor with Chimpboy

Bush clearly had taken more than his fair share of "Wakey Wakies" but he was (1)Out of touch, (2) Lying more than even he usually does, and (3) completely unable or unwilling to answer the questions.

[Crunchy Frog]

65. I wonder if they may have injected a little botox

around the corners of Bush's mouth to control the smirking. I think he did have a little more control over the facial expressions this time, but he still looked like crap to me.

Are you going to challenge your son to a flame war over this?:evilgrin:

[Guaranteed]

66. Just insane. nt

[Teaser]

67. Apparently the public disagrees with you.

at least according to Gallup and CBS (and, arguably, ABC).
Still it's all good. It doesn't matter whether a committed Kerry voter like yourself thinks Kerry won.

[John Q. Citizen]

68. I agree Raven that the GOTV effort is going to win or lose this election

I thought Kerry won, but Bush was the best of all three debates.

Tonight is good, but turning out the vote is what will win!

[eridani]

70. Kerry only fluffed two things

Should have had a comeback about the 1991 vote, and should have NAILED * on importing flu vaccines from Canada when he said last week that we have to make sure that 3rd world Canadian drugs won't kill us.

[tarheel_voter]

72. Gulf war vote from 13 years ago

Who cares. It doesnt seem to register on the list of issues voters are concerned about. That war was dumb then, and it didnt solve any problems... The war was to protect our oil supply, and by default our precious dictator/oil supplier in Kuwait. ;-)

Kerry did fine. Bush looked desperate during that part of the debate.

[bigpathpaul]

73. I don't get it. You're joking, right?

[many a good man]

74. Woody was weally in top form tonight

Tops for him, at least.

But Kerry outbested him hands down. Woody lost the most points tonight on the intangibles. Gut feelings. All his attempts at humor fell flat. Hyped up and smirking non-stop. But at least he could speak in complete sentences! For that the media whores acclaimed him for "command of the issues."

I think a lot of his iffy supposrters felt relieved over his new found coherence but fatally put off by his demeanor.

[Raven]

76. You know, it's interesting...only one person who posted here

picked up on how important it is to get on the ground and get the vote out...only one person at my last count. So I'm going to say to all of you smart people...I hope to God you are right and I don't mind being insulted...just get out there and get the vote out...and, while you are at it, don't offend people who are on your side...it's just not smart. Now, for those of you who want to flame and insult and belittle me...I'll put my activities up against yours right now: I am canvassing every weekend (to those unfamiliar with that, it means walking miles and talking to strangers who amy whish to kill you): I am writing fliers to be handed out: I am making phone calls to starangers: I am advising the campaign on election day isues: I will be at the polls all day doing various things.

SO FLAME AWAY ASSHOLES...can you compete with that?

[Southern Patriot]

79. Some people on our side are a little heavy on the purple kool-aid...

...gets a little tiresome for the realists among us but I'm with you--- if you folks get with the ground game then go to it! Just try not to blow off anybody who doesn't guzzle the koolaid.

[bigtree]

81. Some attitude you got there

I don't need any lecture on staying focused or involved. I also don't need the negativity that seems to come with your advocacy. It is a definite downer. I would suggest dwelling on the many positives in our candidate's performance and efforts. I don't think anything is served by nitpicking or downgrading these, especially when you consider the opposition of liars.

[Raven]

83. Let me say one thing from long experience...

YOU DO NOT WIN ELECTIONS IF YOU IGNORE THE CANDIDATE'S NEGATIVES. 'Nough said.

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

84. I say this in all sincerity

I just honestly hope you are more positive when you canvass.

That's all.

[John Q. Citizen]

85. Thank you for your work Raven and

keep it up. Opinions are natural but winning this election is directly related to the number of Kerry voters that show up to vote.

Whether you or I or Joe Blow believe Kerry won the debate or not is of much less importance to winning this election than doing canvassing, phone banking, and other essential GOTV efforts.

I live in a red state and have been doing the Kerry Phone Corp volunteer thing calling up Demo activists in the swing states and setting them up for local canvasses. I believe this is the most important effort I can make given that I am not able to travel to and canvass in a swing state. http://calls.johnkerry.com

Don't worry about the cheerleaders, thay are doing an important function also, rallying our tribal gestalt. Keep doing what you do because you know that it is the most important thing you can be doing to bring about the regime change we struggle to achieve. I'm having fun doing the swing state Phone bank, more fun than posting to DU in fact. And I know it does a whole lot more to win this election.

[Reciprocity]

88. Well right now you are harming Kerry with this post!

[Amaya]

90. Oh please

gimmie a fucking break.......

and please Get a grip.

[ParanoidPat]

97. Who the fuck are you to tell me to "get out the vote".....

.....:mad: Welcome to ignore! :evilgrin:

[Guaranteed]

99. Make sure that when you "get out the vote" you tell them that Kerry lost

this debate.

[Droopy]

111. Let me get this straight

You come on here saying Kerry didn't win the debate and then throw in some stuff about getting out the vote and you expect people to respond to the stuff about getting out the vote? We all know we need to get out the vote. We are all doing what we can. I suggest you let this thread be a reality check.

[a new day]

77. Kerry won

[Blue_Roses]

82. your expectations of Kerry are too high

'cause he knocked this one out of the ballpark and this comes from someone who had Bush as a governor. Kerry rocked his small-minded world. I'm not so much worried about tonight, as it's clear Kerry won, it's tomorrow. The media spin and Karl Rove. Yes, he's mad right now. Mad that his "president" is so stupid to ruin his career. Karl Rove is not gonna let this sit well for too long with the American people. He knows his days in his nice padded cushion room in the WH are numbered and before long he will be sent packing with his "boy-wonder" and his pillow.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

87. Kerry soundly thrashed the little Chimp...

...I've been watching debates for quite some time, and tonight was a clear victory for Kerry.

You need to get a grip...you need to stop cussing out your allies in the fight to remove the NeoCons from power.

[Zen Democrat]

89. George Bush was almost immaterial in this debate. Kerry was spectacular.

Kerry was at his most relaxed, spoke with ease and authority, had the right answers for every question and stayed on message. Kerry oozed class and dignity.

Those who say Bush had his best debate are just falling for the lowered expectations gambit. Bush was the same old Bush. The same goofball.

John Kerry was the President out there tonight. Over and above the scoring of points, Kerry walked off the stage even taller than Bush than when he walked on. This debate was about seeing John Kerry as your next President. I certainly saw it.

[T Town Jake]

92. It was another clear Kerry win. Period. Shed the angst and...

...embrace what is going to be a clear victory. I'm as confident as I've ever been after tonight. We're going to win, and win big.

[Erika]

96. Bush Made Inroads!

I don't quite think so. C-Span callers in his support were southern and only like his simplistic view. Intellectuals, they are not.

[incapsulated]

98. Sorry

You are wrong. Kerry was great, assertive and confident, and he made yet even MORE inroads with undecideds according to the polls. Bush lied his ass off (He never said that about Osama??) and sounded defensive and shrill. Who looked like he was in control on that stage to you?

Kerry won.

:hi:

[Bread and Circus]

101. Well I think he did.

[Zing Zing Zingbah]

103. Are you insane?!

You shouldn't be holding Kerry to a different standard than Bush, and vice versa. They are both vying for the same job. Kerry definitely won. Bush sounded like a feeble minded idiot, once again.

[Sugarbleus]

104. Kerry ......HUMBLED BUSH!!!!

Kerry's overall attitude and approach to what is right and wrong (integrity)...just out and out MELTED BUSH'S POPCICLES ......I saw Bush stare at Kerry a couple times with near AWE!!!

There are many many topics that might have been discussed, a lot of missed comebacks (those get fleshed out here and in the media anyway)BUT...............This debate was the BEST!!

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

107. Is Raven still there, at the bottom of this pile?

Oh, the humanity!

[NewYorkerfromMass]

110. I imagine this

But I know where Raven's coming from- Kerry didn't blow shrub away- he's till "hanging around".

[ArnoldLayne]

108. I think they both did good to be honest

but I think Kerry won but then again I am very biased. :dem: :kick:

[Zen Democrat]

109. Did you LISTEN to the debate? Or did you just LOOK.

Because if you listened, it was a no-contest. Kerry killed. Bush lied and lied. Kerry called him on the lies.

The immigration question was huge for Kerry. Absolutely huge. Kicked some Bush ass on that one.

And on the assault weapons ban? Bush whines that the all-Republican congress wouldn't pass it so his hands were tied? How puny and weak. Loser answer.

The minimum wage. Another huge win for Kerry.

Even the faith question was a slam-dunk for John Kerry.

I could go on. But it was perfectly clear that Kerry won.

[MADem]

113. Good Lord, the LOOKING made it a slam dunk!

Bush foamed at the mouth, he had that funny expression on his face, his twitches while listening were noticeable, and on the split screen, they made his head HUGE--he looked like Pat Robertson on steroids. And the lump on his back could be seen quickly when they entered, and it was OBVIOUS he was trying to keep his back hidden from the cameras. At the end of the debate, you saw that hump AGAIN.

Something is going on with Bush. I thought it could be a lousy transmitter so he could cheat at first, but now I am starting to think it is a MEDICAL device, like one of those things that shocks you (you don't feel it) every five minutes to prevent seizures. He did look like he had a mini stroke or something, he just looked STRANGE.

[Droopy]

114. I listened to the debate on the radio

And I feel the same as you. I think Kerry made an important distinction tonight between him and Bush. Kerry came across as honest and that's something that Bush can never do.

[Merlin]

115. Raven's right. The rest of you are smoking your typical DU pipe.

Jesus, can't anybody say something objective without all you zombies jumping down his/her throat? Give the poster a godam break! She's not a freeper. She's stating what she believes to be true.

In fact, I agree. Bush unfortunately was much more "on" tonight than in the other two. He reconnected on the religion issue and also had a very warm and fuzzy answer on the women question. Both came right at the end and allowed the boy prince to make up for much of the rest of his incoherent, repetitive line of nonsense.

The religious re-connect particularly bothers me. It's just about the only thing the sonofabitch has going for him. If he wins this election, it will be by playing the god card again and again.

Kerry was very good, though missed some real opportunities. Bush was much improved.

Of course Kerry won overall. That's not really the point. The point is, how well did he do shoring up his base, and influencing undecideds. I think Bush achieved those goals unfortunately.

[sonicx]

118. the phone flash polls said Kerry won the debate among undecideds

and yes bush was 'better' tonite, but he still got killed.

[mellowinman]

121. You're wrong.

Kerry smoked him. I agree that Raven is not a freeper. That is obvious. But you're both wrong that Kerry "didn't win."

He came across as presidential and HUMAN, and Bush looked like a retarded nutjob.

This will translate into real poll numbers.

Bush is done.

Stick a fork in the little beady eyed freak.

[Steelangel]

116. While I disagree with you about Kerry and debate but

I do AGREE with you on vote. Go out and vote will make big difference.

cheers.

[ACK]

119. Everyone seems to think he won thank god

I was just glad Kerry came out and said he would protect Rove vs. Wade.

Nobody talked about the environment.

Kerry should have pointed out the informal study of economists that the magazine the Economist did that favored the Kerry plan.

He should have been forcefull about the Healthcare program not being a program people with the money would buy into and not fully subsidized nationalized healthcare. Confusing for people that have not read the plan. I think some people thought he was talking out of his ass about being able to pay for it all.

He could have also been more forecefull about the sheer tonnage of cash recoverable from eliminated the tax breaks on the rich and closing tax loopholes especially for corporations even while adding other more sensible breaks that reward good corporate behavior.

But Bush sounded all whiny and defensive.

Thank god Bush is an idiot.

[MADem]

130. Kerry did talk about the environment

He mentioned that he always fought for it--kinda hard to say more, if you don't get a direct question.

[djg21]

120. This was a good debate.

Presidential debates aren't supposed to have winners! The electorate wins by comparing cogent answers to questions given by both candidates.

Bush did better this evening, although at times, I thought that he was on Thorazine. His vapid smile was irritating, and why was he speaking out of hald of his mouth?

I though both candidates did fine. Calling any one a winner seems a bit silly this time around.

[Bucky]

122. Right. Kerry won if you don't lower the bar for Bush like usually happens.

Kerry was simply better than Bush matters of substance. Bush was a much MUCH better performer than he was in the last two debates. But he scored more hits in the second debate than tonight. Bush was composed enough to be graded on an adult scale. Using that criterion, Kerry won.

[Nicholas_J]

123. Every scientific poll taken tonight disagrees with that accessment

The CNN poll of debate viewers has Kerry winning by 13 points.

The CBS polls has Kerry winning by 14 points.

Even the ABC poll which ABC has indicated has polled many more Republican viewers of the debate has Kerry one point ahead of Bush in this debate.

Even more telling for ELection Day, CNN had a small group of Ohio voters who were asked after the debates if this debate had made them make a decision on who to vote for.
Seven said they decided for Bush. Seven Remained undecided. TWELVE had decided that after this debate they were voting for Kerry.

A small sample but not far out of line for historical trends in undecided voters at the end of a campaign. In this case twice as many undecided voters decided for Kerry. This is about right for about three weeks before the end of a campaign. BY the last week remaining undecided voters are generally undecided ianbecause they really are unhappy with the current administration. By that point undecided voters finally vote 3 to one against the incumbent. The historical trends are holding rather firm.

Pretty much the mediais reporting this as a Kerry win immediately, rather than the unsure status that occured after the second debate. The numbers are in fact indicating that Kerry won this one by a larger margin than the second debate

[pauliedangerously]

124. Wow, Rave...

I would expect reactionarys elsewhere, but not on a Liberal website. I read all of the threads, and I just finished watching the rebroadcast of the debate...I work 4-midnight.

Yeah, I noticed the spit on the right side of the President's mouth; yes, I am philosophically aligned with the left; yes, I think GWB lacks style, and I think it is obvious that Kerry was the better man.

Your post was appropriate, and the flames you received are an embarrassment to this website. You are wise to be cautious; this thing isn't over.

I empathize with the exasperation that others express on this website; I am dumbfounded that a significant portion of the American population is undecided, and enraged to see how many people in this country are being suckered into voting against their best interests. I'm ENRAGED GODDAMMITALL!!!

But this is the time to be calm, cool, and collected. We are dealing with a sophisticated, well-funded group of people who want to hoard this nation's wealth at the expense of the average working family.

They use terms like "grassroots" to describe their Rangers and "Death Tax" to describe estate tax, "clear skies" to describe pollution, and "pro-life" to counter Roe v. Wade. These slogans are effective on people who only listen with one ear, and most of this country is only listening with one ear.

Hats off to you for your candor.

[On the Road]

126. I Thought the First Two Debates Were Very Close

but this time, I thought Kerry crushed Bush completely. Bush tried to take a step back from his angry demeanor and looked like an utter dork. He couldn't even respond to half the charges and kept changing the subject to education.

Because most viewers don't fact-check, I tend to look at non-verbal elements of the debate. Kerry was assured, dominant, in control. Bush was uncertain, back on his heels, trying to cover his nervousness with a goofy grin. It didn't work. Can you imagine this debate with Kerry as president and Bush as the challenger?

[amazona]

128. hey at least Kerry didn't drool

I can't agree that *'s meds are working.