I wrote the book on gay etiquette. Mentioning Mary Cheney is A-OK.

[Plaid Adder]

I did write _a_ book on gay etiquette, really:

http://www.io.com/~wwwomen/queer/etiquette/intro.html

OK, here's what's really going on with that. The REpublicans are pissed off--if any of this is genuine at all--only because THEY believe that being gay is a shameful secret. I assume that Mary Cheney herself does not. Mary Cheney is out and the fact that Cheney has a lesbian daughter has been discussed in political circles for years now. Kerry was not harming her by saying something about her that everyone already knows, and of which she presumably is, like any lesbian oughta be, proud.

The person who is REALLY doing Mary Cheney and every other lesbian and gay man in this country a disservice is Bush. Because it's his fucking amendment that has made our personal lives political football and that hurts *all* of us--materially and psychologically.

So if anyone gives you any bullshit about how awful Kerry was to drag poor Mary Cheney's private life into this, you tell him: as long as President Bush is in the White House, NONE of us gay people has a private life. For four years he has been using our most intimate relationships and our most important emotions as red meat for his attack dogs. When he talked abotu "tolerance" tonight my only response was a very loud "FUCK YOU!" If what he's done to us during his term is tolerance I would sure fucking hate to see what bigotry looks like.

Fume,

The Plaid Adder

[Plaid Adder]

1. Dang, things drop fast tonight. n/t

[cheezus]

2. it's hard to post a reply when you leave us speechless

:kick:

[Silvermint]

33. Speechless Indeed

I agree... you're amazing. Right on!

[newyawker99]

35. Hi Silvermint!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[jonnyblitz]

4. wow you aren't kidding.

I kicked this thread and it STILL ended up halfway down the page as soon as I kicked it!!!

[jonnyblitz]

3. kick. n/t

[Ariana Celeste]

5. I read a lot of your gay ettiquette :)

I loved it! I have a lot of gay friends, and god damned if Bush can talk about tolerance!! You are right! FUCK him!

[WhereIsMyFreedom]

6. Well said.

:kick:

[hatrack]

7. Don't worry, PA - busy night here!

And thanks for your post, btw - right on target!

[Booster]

10. Good post, and although I agree with you that it's ok to mention

the name of a gay person, I still think Kerry should have said "why, Mr. President, even some on your own staff have gay family members"; only because Edwards mentioned her name during the VP debates, so everybody would have known what he was getting at and it would have shown them to be the hypocrites they are. Subtle.

[faithnotgreed]

8. right on

[gumby]

9. I still don't get it.

Everybody knows about Mary Cheney. Why does Kerry or Edwards citing her as a call to tolerance make everyone so nuts? Hearing a minute of Scarborough, the panel was scathing Kerry (just like the talking heads did with Edwards) for bringing up Mary Cheney.

Is this the "dirty laundry" psychosis where you can talk about d-l within the family, but if anyone else does it, then the family gets all bent out of shape? If that's the case, then aren't all these pundits infering negativity on Cheney instead of Kerry?

I screamed at the screen too because that Botoxed, spittle mouthed #$%^ wants to enshrine bigotry into OUR Constitution!

[RaleighNCDUer]

31. BFEE and its supporters have raised 'dirty laundry' to an art form.

They circle the wagons so readily against anything that might be construed as a 'scandal' that it is just second nature. The one thing you never do is talk about 'it' (whatever the 'it' might be) particulary in public. They naturally extend it to those in their circle, even those who openly disagree with them.

Despite her clear and open support for he father, they wish Mary Chaney would just shut up and disappear.

As so succinctly said in other posts here, fuck em.

Afternote:
If this crowd continues their control, she might just do that -- along with hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of others. Are we ready for 're-education camps' in the Wyoming and Alabama?

[brook]

11. I think I heard you...

that loud FU, I mean...(though I was yelling too). I don't know you - but I've been mighty impressed with the intelligence, sensitivity and wisdom with which you speak to the human condition. Once again - you have nailed it.

[bear425]

12. thank you and...

:kick:

[Cha]

17. Thanks for your take on this, Plaid.

I didn't hear the context so I can't say for sure but I don't Kerry, who has too much class to be rude, would be saying anything to offend anyone but bush and the neofascists.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

13. Absolutely

when you attack gays because they dare to get married like any other couple in love, then you suffer the consequences when your critics put a human face on the pain you cause.

[Lisa]

14. and also, if Bush's people are going to go on and on about ....

... how wonderful heterosexuals are, and how dedicated to the sanctity of marriage they should be ("family values" and all that) -- they had better be ready to hear from same-sex couples who are so faithful and in love that they will cross international borders so they won't have to "live in sin".

It also irritates me that they dismiss any young woman who doesn't conform to their ideal model of a perfect little virgin who doesn't do drugs, listens to her parents, etc. -- though if anyone who does happen to fit that model is a leftist who criticizes their policies, she's an unspeakable virago who "can't get a man".

p.s. I personally don't fit the model since I don't go to church. Unless one counts helping the Unitarians carry their banner at the anti-war protests.

[ciaobox]

15. Adder, YOU ROCK!

Hey, your book looks really cool. I will read the whole thing later and forward it to my other straight friends.

But hey, if you don't mind I'd like to nominate you as a rapid-response spokesperson for the campaign on this issue. What would be a better response than putting the auther of a Gay Ettiquette book on CNN to refute their false horror.

If you are into it, please respond and I will start a little campaign to get you nominated.

[Plaid Adder]

20. I can't go on TV, it would expose my secret identity.

But it couldn't hurt to point people to the etiquette guide. It doesn't address this specific issue but it does talk about when it's OK to 'spread the news.'

C ya,

The Plaid Adder

[ciaobox]

27. Right on!

[Dudley_DUright]

16. Excellent post PA

:kick:

[Plaid Adder]

18. OK, here's kind of a funny story about Republican fathers...

...and it also shows how long everyone's known about Mary Cheney.

My father's 60th birthday was in 2002. My family has a tradition of performing skits in honor of the birthday person at big milestone things like this. When I say "my family has a tradition," I mean that I write them and the family performs them.

Anyway, for my father's birthday we did an X-Files parody. At the end of the skit, Mulder and Scully are discussing what kind of dirt they were able to turn up in my father's life during their investigation. Here's a chunk of the dialogue:

MULDER: Well, we did find out that daughter is a...is a...(trails off)

SKINNER: Oh, that's all right--so is Cheney's daughter.

MULDER: (puzzled) Cheney's daughter was a Nader voter?

2002, folks, and my whole family got it. This is NOT NEW INFORMATION. Plus, my father's a Republican, and he can laugh about it; and so can my extremely uptight in other ways mother, after 10 years of me and Liza and my siblings workign on her. So WTF is Lynne Cheney's problem?

@#$!,

THe Plaid Adder

[ciaobox]

19. BTW, it's the word "Lesbian" they hate

These right wing nuts are cool with "Gay" "alternative lifestyle" "homosexual". But "lesbian" is too close to the cover of the pornos they watch late at night and it creeps them out.

[Plaid Adder]

21. And don't forget, Lynne Cheney wrote a novel called "Sisters"

that has a lesbian story line in it. Alas I have yet to obtain a copy; they have gotten very expensive and rare over the past several years.

C ya,

The Plaid Adder

[bigtree]

24. and . . .

Cheney himself took it further, unprompted

Cheney breaks rank on same-sex marriage / Vice president refers to daughter as lesbian publicly for 1st time

Asked his position on the subject at a town hall meeting in Davenport, Iowa, Cheney replied: "Lynne and I have a gay daughter ...

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/chronicle/a/2004/08/25/MNGHQ8DV6Q1.DTL

[Lisa]

25. PM me on this -- I might have a little surprise for you ...

.... if I make any progress with a particular negotiation this week.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

22. Disagree.

The person REALLY doing the disservice is: Mary Cheney, Chimp supporter.

[truthpusher]

23. Watching Scarborough...

...yell about how the Republics would never have got away with the same if it was Edwards or Kerry's gay daughter that they brought up, I realized something. Scarborough is right. They wouldn't have. Because being the party of genuine compassion, the Democrats can bring up the gay issue on any level and always appear on the side of genuine concern. Imagine the Republicans trying to pull this off, it would show right through.

[Plaid Adder]

26. The Etiquette Manual DOES address this very issue!

Chapter and verse! Here it is:

http://www.io.com/~wwwomen/queer/etiquette/chap5.html

Spreading the News, Or Not

relevant excerpt:

"Q. Your friend has come out to you and tells you that although s/he is out to everyone s/he knows, including the family, his/her parents have not told anyone in their circle about this. Since you two go way back, you know a number of people who know your outcomer's parents. Should you mention this to them?

A. If your outcomer doesn't care who knows, then you don't have to either. It is not necessary to respect the feelings of other people who for whatever reason want this information not to get around. Blab away. A little shaming will do those parents some good."

My God, I'm prescient.

C ya,

The Plaid Adder

[Skinner]

28. Amen.

They are upset because they believe that being gay, or having a gay family member, is shameful. Their response to Kerry's comment is a calculated effort to drive the wedge even more.

[BUSHOUT]

29. Agreed. I just hope straight America realizes it or reads your book real

soon.

[terrya]

30. You know, the Log Cabin people finally saw the light.

In their sad, misguided, woefully naive support of George W. Bush in 2000, they finally realized something the rest of us gay and lesbian people knew...that this Adminstration is just plain hostile to the gay community. And they, the Log Cabin'ers, said that they can't support Bush this year. Granted, it took them long enough, but even then they saw what the rest of us saw.

And here's Mary Cheney...an active participant in the Bush/Cheney campaign. Silent...silent on this adminstration's support of a hateful amendment to the United States Constitution that would forever relegate us gay people to second class citizenship (and her father's wishy-washy stance on the anti-gay FMA is laughable. This notion that he opposes it but can't do anything about it...that "the President makes policy in this administration" is so idiotic...the most powerful person in this government can't get Bush to change his mind? PLEASE). Mary Cheney...silent on the GOP 2004 platform that is nothing but a hateful screed against gay issues. Silent, silent, silent is Mary Cheney.

I've said it before...Mary Cheney is, in my mind, a traitor to the gay community. And she's open to any criticism as to her willingness to go along with the homophobia of her father's campaign.

Kerry was exactly right in bringing up Mary Cheney's private life last night in context to that question about homosexuality.

[Radio-Active]

32. Hey...

she's got a huge inheritance waiting, and all she has to do is support Dad's campaign.

[WI_DEM]

34. as long as the voters think so

This is pretty dicey. If voters think that Kerry was out of line to bring it up--it could hurt him. Look at how big a play it is getting. I'm not sure how it will play out--hopefully in a day or so it will be a non-issue.

[catrose]

36. Damn straight it's OK!

She's a PROFESSIONAL lesbian. I mean, working to sell Coors to the gay market.

[chiburb]

37. Kick for a great piece.

[fugue]

38. Wow!

Your guide is not only informative but a fun read!

I will pass the link around to my friends.

Thanks!

[obiwan]

39. What Mr. Kerry said about Mary Cheney was...

... factual, accurate, honest, and respectful to Ms. Cheney. After all, she is a lesbian; this is not a slur, it is a fact. Mr. Kerry was acknowledging what every homosexual person knows; homosexuality is not a lifestyle choice, but a genetic reality. His answer was both insightful and respectful, not pandering in the least.

As a lifelong tolerant practicing heterosexual, I have tried to maintain my sensitivity for people who are put together differently than me. Since I am not God I don't feel that I have the authority to pass judgement. Set aside the lifestyle choice and you will find a rational, thinking person. I have had many homosexual friends over the years, and never did they try to "convert" me. They are as sensitive to heterosexuals as I am to homosexuals.

They are "God's children" just as much as we are.

[Clintmax]

40. Thanks, Adder!

I would like to be able to talk to bushlet face to face and ask him why he hates me so much. Is he afraid of me? (gay here too)

I live in Florida, so here's to Florida being blue in November, just like it REALLY was in 2000!