Abenaki Nation, Vermont Indians Endorse Clark

[Jerseycoa]

The Clark campaign is pleased to announce the endorsement of the Abenaki Nation at Missisquoi, which is headquartered in Swanton, Vermont.

The endorsement by the Abenaki Tribal Council and its Chief, April Rushlow, follows on the heels of other major endorsements from the American Indian and Alaskan Native community. Chairman Brian Wallace of the Washoe Nation and the Native American Times, the nation's largest independent Indian news source, also endorsed Clark.

"The Abenaki Nation has endorsed General Clark for President because of his record of leadership and his concern for the key issues facing Native Americans across the country," said Chief Rushlow.

"American Indians in general and the Abenaki in particular deserve a higher standard of leadership," said Clark. "I am deeply humbled by the endorsement of the Abenakis and Chief Rushlow. And I will not let them down."

"The campaign is courting votes throughout all of Indian Country," Press Secretary Bill Buck said. "But Wes Clark's commitment to addressing the issues that concern the American Indian and Alaskan Native community will last long after the election is over."

Source: Clark 04

[davidinalameda]

1. another pretty damn cool endorsement

keep em coming!

[brainshrub]

4. Yeah, I have admit that was pretty cool.

I wish they had supported Dean...but oh well.

[KaraokeKarlton]

2. I wonder if Clark promised them their casino

That the rest of Vermont doesn't want ruining our state?

:shrug:

[QC]

6. I was wondering how long it would take for someone to trash them.

But even I, as cynical as I have become, thought it would take more than two posts.

[Clark Can WIN]

24. Yeah, those lousy injuns..................

beggars and theives right? <sarcasm off/>

DISGUSTING :puke:

[KaraokeKarlton]

36. Oops...you might want to take that back

since I AM Abenaki. :eyes:

[KaraokeKarlton]

35. I've got more Abenaki blood than their tribal leader

and I live in Vermont and oppose their goals of getting a casino in Swanton. It would destroy the town.

[tameszu]

52. Interesting that you claim you are Abenaki

And yet you call them "they" and have to wonder as to why "they" supported Clark. There aren't that many Abenaki in VT--if you really ARE a part of the Abenaki community in VT, why don't you just ask "them" why "they" endorsed Clark?

[DoveTurnedHawk]

59. DAMN Telling

Why not "we" I wonder?

Hmm.

Hmm.

DTH

[KaraokeKarlton]

61. Simple..I'm not originally from Vermont

n/t

[KaraokeKarlton]

60. "they" are the tribe

I live in Vermont, but wasn't born here. I know why they endorsed Clark. It's because they want federal recognition so they can build a casino and they know the only way they will get it (since the tribe doesn't even meet the rules for federal recognition) is to get someone who doesn't know enough about the politics of the country to know better than make promises. I strongly oppose tribal casinos. I find it shameful. Greed is shameful. I don't associate with the Vermont Abenaki Community partly because the tribe my Abenaki blood comes from is not in Vermont and partly because I'm disgusted with the hunger for a casino.

[helleborient]

8. Good question...answers?? (n/t)

[DancingBear]

9. Reminder

Positive threads should remain positive threads - it works out well for all sides.

OK???

(oh, and pissing on birthday cakes reflects poorly on your candidate)

[helleborient]

12. Please help remind your fellow supporters as well...

Thank you.

[DancingBear]

14. Wow - using subterfuge, eh?

How clever.

[KaraokeKarlton]

38. This is a personal issue for me

I am both a Vermonter and Abenaki. I oppose the effots to bring a casino to Vermont.

[BringEmOn]

25. Ruin your state?

I see Vermont has a state lottery. Has the state lottery ruined your state? How disingenuous of you (and Howard Dean). For years, whites, both Democrat and Republican, have moaned and complained about their tax dollars going to the Indians, or that Indians are all on welfare. But, when Indians try to become financially self-sufficient, they cry even louder.

Many tribes, after being nearly decimated by war and small pox, were placed on reservation lands which were poor in resouces...lands the whites didn't want (unless gold or other minerals were later discovered). There is very little in resources, such as timber and mining, to sustain the people, so they have sought out alternative routes to self-sufficiency. I know that most of they would rather not go the casino route, but there are few choices.

In my area, the casinos have resulted in full employment for tribes (who previously has unemployments rates as high as 50-75%) as well as employment for non-Indians in depressed areas. Most of the monies go to support schools and to provide social services and medical care, all of which the federal government has failed to provide per treaty agreements with tribes. As far as I can tell, casinos haven't ruined our state, but have lifted many out of poverty. Other than the run of the mill racists, the main resistance comes from special interests in Nevada and New Jersey (and the politicians who pander to these wealthy special interests).

Slam Wes Clark if you must, but please think before you post disparaging remarks about Native Americans.

[KaraokeKarlton]

39. I AM Native American

If I take issue with the behavior of my people I will damn well voice my opinion, thank you very much. The leaders of this tribe want a casino and I oppose it. It's shameful. Vermont is a beautiful RURAL state that is safe for our children, with virtually no crime. We do NOT need a casino to attract the kind of problems casinos typically do.

[BringEmOn]

57. I am also Native American

I'm glad that your issue is with casinos, and not a racial issue. Are you in the minority (opposing casino) with your people? I wish you and your people the best.

[KaraokeKarlton]

63. It's certainly not a racial issue, it's a greed issue

and I abhor greed. Casinos epitomize greed. I also find it an awful thing to force casinos onto communities who don't want them. Yes, crimes were commited against my people many years ago, and that was wrong. To show the same disrespect and lack of consideration toward innocent people is wrong. I would be 100% behind all federal and state recognition if there were a way to eliminate the greed and bad things. Unfortunately, no one has figured out how to do that, so I have very mixed feelings on the issue. I want the heritage, language, history and lifestyle protected as well as burial grounds, and social programs. I don't want the greed. This may better help explain where I'm coming from.

[PatrioticOhioLiberal]

90. If you don't want a casino

in your "pristine" state, vote against it...but stop trying to use your "supposed" NDN blood to imply something about the candidate they endorsed.

If you've got a complaint with what they've done take it up with them. Unless you think your too good to converse with them being from another state and all.

Believe it or not bitching here won't change a thing.

[KaraokeKarlton]

97. If the tribe gets federal recognition Vermonters don't get to vote on it

THAT is the issue. Dean wouldn't pander to them and help them get federal recognition because they don't qualify for it, so the endorsement of Clark is about that. The tribe wants recognition so they can open a casino. And whether you like it or not, it IS relevent to the subject, so deal.

[Capn Sunshine]

30. I wonder if Clark promised them they were a real tribe

that always seems to be at the root of these arguments, a group of developers who want a casino get 18 people together who no one knew about before...

[retyred]

47. So I take it you oppose recognition?

retyred in fla
“Good-Night Paul, Wherever You Are”
So I read this book

[tameszu]

56. Interesting that the Abenaki-blooded KK has such strong feelings about

casinos, but doesn't seem terribly concerned about recognition of his/her tribe. Somehow I don't think this is terribly representative of KK's brethren.

[KaraokeKarlton]

65. The Vermont tribe is NOT my tribe

I'm not originally from Vermont. I'm wondering how many times I have to repeat this before it sinks in.

I also find it hilarious that first some posters implied I was biased against Native Americans. The feigned outrage was something special. But lo and behold, the second I announced that I am Abenaki I suddenly am being treated in much the same way I was originally wrongfully chastised for treating Native Americans.

I guess only Clark and casino loving Abenakis are worthy of respect in the eyes of some on DU.

Go figure. :shrug:

[tameszu]

68. OK then

So you, an Abenaki from another tribe, move to Vermont and oppose the Abenaki living there from asserting their rights to recognition (and maybe to make the decision as to whether they want to take what they're due and run a casino or not) because you think it would destroy the town to which you moved?

Yeah, that sounds fair.

[KaraokeKarlton]

73. I don't live in Swanton. I have friends who do, though.

They have lived there all their lives. A casino would ruin their way of life. There are very, very few people who support a casino in Vermont.

They don't even qualify for recognition. That's what so many people keep missing. The tribe didn't stay put in one area and never had a permanent and established presence in Vermont. They spent much of their time in Canada. Swanton is right on the border of Canada, in case you didn't know that. I mean the next town is in Canada. The Abenaki who were in Vermont were not ever organized and actually most likely were part of a Canadian Abenaki tribe. It's not a cut and dry issue and the bottom line is that they don't qualify for recognition. In the end, that's a good thing for the people of Vermont, at least as long as the tribal leaders want a casino.

[PatrioticOhioLiberal]

93. Interesting

I have a number of NDN friends...I find it hard to believe someone who lays claim to that heritage seems so bent on pointing out the non-recognition of their supposed tribal heritage.

Yeah I know...different state. LOL...what a crock.

[KaraokeKarlton]

98. Nothing like questioning my heritage just because

you don't like my views. With your toxicity you do your friends proud...really you do. Apparently you aren't a "real" Native American unless you support a PNAC-SOA friendly war monger for president. Sorry, but Clark could puff the peace pipe and blow smoke circles out of his asshole and I'd still think he is as crooked as they come.

:eyes:

[PatrioticOhioLiberal]

91. Now THAT is racist. n/t

[meow mix]

yeah god forbid letting them have some kind of industry

in your other thread your pretending to care about gays rights
(when its really just a cheap smear)
in this one, its natives.

i can see all your batting practice at the dean camp is really paying off.
*eyes rolling*

[KaraokeKarlton]

67. So insulting Native Americans is something you find offensive then?

If so, you should be ashamed of yourself and have offended yourself because I AM Native American.

:eyes:

[meow mix]

69. i dont care what you are, i find your fake concern offensive..

as far as the "clark is homophobe" thread goes.

and i also find your position on indian casinos offensive.
take that to be insulting if you wish...

[KaraokeKarlton]

74. I never called Clark a "homophobe" for Cripes Sakes.

Thanks for so poignantly answering my question. I'll remember that only minorities who support Clark are deserving of appropriate treatment.

[meow mix]

75. your trying to foster a habitat for that assumption

same thing to me. even worse actually...

[KaraokeKarlton]

77. Nonsense

I was making a point that it was wrong for Clark supporters to piss and moan over Dean not appointing blacks and hispanics to the half dozen cabinet positions he got to fill when Vermont has virtually NO blacks or hispanics in the state. I said so in the thread. And frankly, if you want to argue about that, then take it to that thread and stop derailing this one.

[meow mix]

81. feigning concern for gays rights in order to smear a dem candidate

just to make a point about how precious dean is.

thanks for clearing that up again..

[KaraokeKarlton]

86. Do you have nothing on the topic at hand to contribute?

Honestly, your repeated attempts at changing the subject are getting quite tiresome.

[returnable]

3. Celebratory kick

Good stuff :kick:

[roguevalley]

5. Bravo. This is good news.

Last night my nephew came over and he asked me who I was going to support for President. I told him Wes Clark and he almost came unglued. He was thrilled. He's working on the rest of the family to get them to check Wes Clark out. My nephew is a veteren of the Kosovo-Bosnian War and got to meet Clark and shake his hand. I asked him why he thought Clark was the best man for him.

1. "He's so damned smart."

2. "He's a good man who has been to war and knows what its like and
things like Iraq wouldn't happen with him."

3. "He cares about this country and won't let us down. I like and
trust him."

4. Last and pointedly not least: "He was my commander. I know and
trust his judgement."

Sigh. I now have a nephew who is perfect. :)

RV

[Jerseycoa]

11. I'm in total shock

I'm at my sister's for a few days. She told me this morning this will be the first election in her life she will be voting Dem. She's leaning Clark but not definite yet. She is all of a sudden completely ABB. I can't quite believe it, but she never ever lies. :)

[Clark Can WIN]

28. kick for your nephew

[maddezmom]

7. thanks for posting Jersycoa :)

good endorsement for Wes.

[kayleybeth]

10. Kick for positive Clark thread

This is great news, thanks for posting!

[tameszu]

13. Maybe it's because Clark doesn't support barriers to their recognition

like Dean did.

I am very proud to have the most consistently screwed over minority group in North America supporting my candidate. It's completely pokes out the eye of the folks who slanderously charge that Clark is a Repub.

[Jerseycoa]

17. Clark doesn't support barriers to their recognition

I'm sure this is why, or at least part of it. There was a thread a month or two ago discussing the Abenaki recognition issue in Vermont and Maine. But Native Americans are also very patriotic and probably see Clark's military background in a positive light.

[elfin]

15. Wouldn't be surprised if he adds many more Indian nations

to his support. The "warrior tradition" among North American Indians is unbelievably potent. After all, per capita, they have one of the highest, if not the highest percentage of actives and vets of any other population group.A big reason why they would find Clark more appealing than other potential nominees.

[Leilani]

32. Right

He got a great endorsement last week from an important Native American newspaper, & in the endorsement they cited military service
& vets rights.

[Bombtrack]

16. those corporate repuliblican clintonite zionists

don't you know Clark doesn't have any grassroots support and he isn't a "real" democrat.

What do Native Americans know about adversity that starbucks liberals don't!

[Clark Can WIN]

26. LOLOLOLOL

:toast:

[in_cog_ni_to]

18. Oh, this one is SWEEEEET!

That says a lot when a tribe from VERMONT endorses Clark.

Go, Wes!

[ozone_man]

19. It probably means that he cut a deal with them.

Clark is a good lobbyist. He probably cut a deal with them regarding tribal recognition, but casinos in Vermont are not wanted.

[jmaier]

20. This would be like

the deals that Gov Dean must be cutting then with Al Gore, Sen. Harkin, Bill Bradley, etc.? Endorsements happen without deals.

Please the recognition issue is about more than casinos -- it also decides whether or not a member of the tribe can apply for government aid as a "Native American" on college grant applications or get minority business loans, etc. It's not just a fluff or gambling issue.

[KaraokeKarlton]

42. Yes, it IS about a casino

ozone man, like myself, is from Vermont and we KNOW all about this issue.

[windansea]

45. link??

[KaraokeKarlton]

49. Certainly...here is one

http://www.s-t.com/daily/04-99/04-18-99/e10he190.htm

[in_cog_ni_to]

22. Could I have a link,

please? I would like some facts to back that up or is this another Hugh Shelton "hit and run" post? Drop an accusation and never show proof of it.

[in_cog_ni_to]

27. That's exactly what I thought. n/t

[KaraokeKarlton]

51. Perhaps ozone man isn't on here quite as often

as you are. Give him time to respond for Cripes Sakes.

http://www.s-t.com/daily/04-99/04-18-99/e10he190.htm

[BringEmOn]

31. I hope you feel the same about your state lottery n/t

[KaraokeKarlton]

41. State lottery doesn't bring people into Vermont

Casinos attract crime and casinos aren't welcome in Vermont.

[SahaleArm]

53. That pretty much explains nationwide crime...

It's all about the casinos.

[KaraokeKarlton]

66. No, it's about many people in a small area

That's why urban areas have much more crime than rural Vermont does. If a casino were to come to Vermont, so would many people, which would make for more crime, which is NOT welcome here. If I wanted to contend with crime I'd move to the city. I moved to Vermont because I want to raise my children in a safe, low crime rural area. A Casino would destroy Swanton as people know and love it. There is no room for a casino in Vermont.

[SahaleArm]

72. Why would these new people create more crime?

Urban areas don't always have lots of crime, poor places do. It's a socio-economic problem as much as it's a population issue.

[KaraokeKarlton]

76. Casinos attract gambling addicts

Gambling addicts do things like lock their toddlers in hot cars to die. They have been know to steal, mug, drink and drive, drug and drive, among other things. Vermont is a VERY rural state. Swanton is a SMALL town. Bringing a casino to Vermont would SEVERELY change the communities it surrounds and would be in. Traffic, car emissions, littering...I really could go on and on. Vermont is not a place to put a casino. It WOULD destroy life as we know it here. A casino is NOT welcome in Vermont. Gamblers have plenty of places to go to gamble. I'm all for the state giving the Abenaki land to open a ski resort, which can make plenty of money for the tribe. I'm all for the state building a state of the art museum and funding it. I'm all for social programs and those kinds of things. If I have to oppose federal recognition to protect Vermont from a casino, then that is the position I shall take. No casino in Vermont, period.

[ozone_man]

44. Actually, I do.

I've never bought a lottery ticket for the simple fact that I don't like gambling, but more importantly, I believe lotteries are a regressive tax on the poor and Dean dislikes gambling as well, I believe for the same reason. His position is well known. Casinos, of course, are a step up from the lottery, and draw gamblers from regions out of state and impact negatively the communities around them. Motivation for many recent tribal recognition campaigns have been associated with their desire to build casinos.

Dean offered them a limited recognition that would include health care, etc., but no casinos and or land claims. It's not a cut and dried issue, since the Abnakis have been a migratory tribe throughout the North East and have may not have established a permanent residence in Vermont that is a general requirement for tribal recognition.

I have been a long time advocate for Native American rights, but I draw the line at casinos.

[BringEmOn]

48. Thank you for your reply

I also have never purchased a lottery ticket because I choose not to gamble, but it's none of my business if someones else chooses to do so. I also don't go to casinos, other than for dinner. I'm not a fan of casinos, but I understand the economic need for them at this time. Maybe the situation in Vermont is different. Here, we had very high unemployment and the feds were cutting social and health services. Also, our tribes have been established since the 1800's, so recognition isn't an issue.

I can understand and I respect your right to disagree with the establishment of casinos. I'm not sure what the problems you're concerned about. In my area, most of the people at the casinos are elderly people. I haven't seen any Mafia types, increase in crime, or anything like that. The special interests from Nevada tried the same scare tactics when the casinos were first trying to get off the ground. They said that casinos would bring in organized crime, increase crime etc., but none of that ever happened.

I'm also aware of certain people who claim Indian blood, the "my grandmother was a Cherokee princess" types who only want to use their "Indian blood" to exploit or profit. If the Abenaki people are sincere about their tribal identity, I definitely support their cause and I assume that you would, too. If there's a casino issue, it up to the people to decide.

It's very good to know that your position is in opposition to gambling in general, and not racially motivated. I hope the situation works out the best for everybody concerned.

[KaraokeKarlton]

71. There is a lot of that "exploiting" of Abenaki heritage for profit with

this issue here in Vermont. Read this article:

http://www.s-t.com/daily/04-99/04-18-99/e10he190.htm

Money, money, money, casino, casino, casino... from this man who just "discovered" his Abenaki blood when he was 37 years old. Look at his picture. The Vermont tribal chief is a blonde haired, blue eyed fair skinned woman as well. Does this mean they can't claim their heritage? Of course not...however...when I see a fair skinned American with very little Native American blood singing the praises of casinos I envision exploitation and the soiling of my ancestry. It really makes me fell a bit dirty to be honest with you. I'm very suspicious of these types of "tribal leaders".

[BringEmOn]

84. I read the article you linked

and also read the link and also the link posted by nancyharris (below). First of all, I'm almost full-blooded Native American and definitely look native, but I grew up with a lot of Indian people of mixed blood who didn't look Indian. I resent your suggestion that they are any less "Indian" because of their appearance.

I'm very impressed that the gentleman has found his heritage. He was born in the 50's...the era of Indian Termination...it was the federal government policy to terminate Indian reservations and destroy Indian heritage...a form of genocide, in my opinion. I know of many people who didn't enroll their children into the tribe, although they were eligible because it wasn't popular to be Indian at that time. I know that they would give their eye teeth to be enrolled, now...and not because of "greed". Maybe, Mr. Wiseman was in the same situation. I also feel that Mr. Wiseman seems very sincere in his efforts to preserve his heritage and I don't sense the "greed" you are referring to.

I am wondering...wouldn't you and your children benefit from tribal recognition? Your children would be eligible for educational and health benefits, casino or no casino. Sounds to me like it's all about your devotion to Howard Dean. It appears that Dean has fought the Indians much like the Indian fighter Slade Gorton did in our state:

http://eatthestate.org/02-27/SladeGortonsIndian.htm


Howard Dean has stated that he supports Indian Tribal gaming on his website and stated such in his speech to the American Indian Congress. Either he's a hypocrite, or is pandering. I don't think our tribal leaders, nationwide, are attracted by the shiny trinkets anymore, and will see through him. Your link is meant to support your position, but comes off making Dean sound like a jerk..sorry.

[KaraokeKarlton]

87. Dean's job was to represent Vermont's interests

and that is just what he did because the overwhelming majority of Vermonters strongly oppose a casino. As president he would be representing the entire country, and that calls for a more impartial stand. This is how it should be. Not all tribal casinos would be as devastating as one in Vermont would be. I detest them, that is true, but if another state is okay with a tribal casino, it's not my business. Because I live in Vermont and raise my children here, it is my business. Does this help you recognize the difference a little better?

No, my children and I will NOT accept anything from the government for who we are. I care about the heritage, traditions, artifacts, and history and want these things preserved. I would like the government to pay for those things. To accept a personal handout because of my ancestry only takes money that would be much wiser spent on the above things I mentioned. There are social programs that already exist to help people in need regardless of where our blood originated from. My people would far better serve the cause of preserving what is most important by asking for less for themselves and more for the Native American heritage, history, artifacts and what not. It's a pride thing.

[BringEmOn]

100. I would hope Dean would be consistent

in his policies. Apparently, what he's done in Vermont is basically inconsistent with his campaign rhetoric. And that's how it should be? Add this to the "Confederate flag," "states rights," "NRA," "affirmative action based on class" code words, it's apparent where his heart is. Please keep that good ol' boy in pure, lily white Vermont.

Oops, I just read your other post...you're not originally from Vermont and you don't even live in the town in which the Abenaki people (not your people?) want to build a casino, if that's their choice? I'm outta here....

[KaraokeKarlton]

102. I'm Abenaki, and have lived here over a decade

But I'm originally from Maine. And I don't have to live in Swanton to be affected by a casino there. I live along the direct route to get to Swanton, so every car driving to a casino would pass by me. And the people of Swanton (aside from the tribe) feel even more strongly against having a casino than I do. Afterall, it is their lives that would be totally changed from it. If federal recognition is ever granted and the tribe starts to build a casino there will be a huge riot over it and civil unrest unlike you could ever imagine. It would be worse than the battle for Civil Unions, and that was horrible.

[KaraokeKarlton]

40. Damn right they aren't wanted!

If I have to plant my Abenaki ass on the planned development site to stop any casino I'll do it, with my shotgun in hand.

NO CASINOS IN VERMONT!!!!!

[DoveTurnedHawk]

62. Not as Good a Lobbyist as Dean

Look at how many endorsements HE has.

Oh, but I'm sure he hasn't promised his endorsees anything. Nope, not "straight arrow" Howard Dean.

DTH

[windansea]

21. let all the tribes gather in support

[Clark Can WIN]

23. First Americans are supporting Clark in large numbers

I love this about him and hold their endorsements in much higher regard than many others.

[democratreformed]

29. These mean alot to me too

My mother, who died in 1999, was a real advocate for Native Americans.

[NashVegas]

33. Well, There's the Ironic Endorsement of the Day

..

[Bread and Circus]

34. Awesome!

[Tweed]

37. I guess they have had enough of Dean

That should hurt Dean that people in Vermont are against him.

[MoonRiver]

43. This endorsement means a lot more than the ones from politicians.

On the ground Democratic citizens KNOW Clark is in their camp.

Clark, an American Hero, for America!!!

[kayleybeth]

46. kick

:kick: for a positive Clark thread!

GO WES GO!!!

[retyred]

50. Oh cool, Vermonters For Clark

It says volumes!


retyred in fla
“Good-Night Paul, Wherever You Are”
So I read this book

[KaraokeKarlton]

54. It says Clark probably pandered to them by promising federal recognition

If he did that the rest of Vermont is going to hate his guts for it.

[SahaleArm]

55. Why is giving federal recorgnition a bad thing? n/t

[KaraokeKarlton]

78. It would be in this case

The Abenaki in Vermont don't qualify for federal recognition because there were never an organized tribe in Vermont and spent most of their time in Canada. Swanton is a stone's throw from Canada. Due to the lack of any records of the tribe being an organized entity in Vermont implies that they were always part of a Canadian Abenaki tribe.

When people like the guy in this article is representative of Vermont's Abenaki tribe (he discovered he had some Abenaki blood when he was in his late 30's and pushes for a casino) it kind of makes you wonder if perhaps the true purpose of federal tribal recognition might not being exploited for financial profit and greed. Yeah, I take issue with that.

http://www.s-t.com/daily/04-99/04-18-99/e10he190.htm

[Tinoire]

58. Well this one was foreseen- There was no way the Abenaki would go Dean

My Dean friends can tell you we had numerous arguments over this subject. KaraokeKarlton (peace to him/her) and I came to verbal blows over this in more thread than one :)

This is good for Clark but it's more a getting-even slam at Dean than anything else.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=758713

[KaraokeKarlton]

79. Yes we have

However, I think if you had a better understanding of the whole situation you would understand why so many oppose recognition of the tribe. It honestly would seem that the Abenaki in Vermont are actually descendants of a Canadian tribe. There are many here who wish to exploit the purpose of federal recognition for their own selfish reasons. That is not something that should be embraced or endorsed. You know that I feel it's shameful and I hate the greed. It's a real sore spot for me. I got the stubborn pride, that's for sure. We may disagree on this issue, but we do agree on Clark's background.

[Tinoire]

82. Actually I understood

It took me a little while to accept it but I did especially when I realized your sincerity and remembered how vociferously I have fought certain tools of enslavement used against my people.

I am only sorry that the Abenaki didn't endorse a progressive Democrat, let bygones be bygones, or just plain shut up because this really was only done out of spite. Spite and anger kill :(

Iyúskinyan wancínyankelo.

[KaraokeKarlton]

85. Tinoire, if you want to understand the roots to the recognition problem

for Vermont Abenakis you need only look as far as Greylock. He refused to sign a treaty of defeat. He was the chief back in the 1700s. He sided with the French in the French Indian Wars, married a French woman, changed his name and essentially set the stage for the Abenaki to turn away from their heritage and pass themselves off as French. They fought in the American Revolution as well. Due to Greylock's refusal to sign that treaty, his snubbing of his own identity, Abenaki people pretending to be French and bad record keeping...there's no way to show an organized tribal presence. Many bands were also moving to Quebec of their own volition. Although I'm sure there are a lot of Abenaki people in Vermont whose motives are pure and genuine to preserve their history and heritage, there are many who only seek to exploit and profit. The situation isn't a simple case of recognize or not recognize. It's much more complicated than that and those greed inspired individuals only complicate it further.

[Tinoire]

89. Thank you for the history!

From you, I have learned more about the Abenaki than I had ever thought to know this election cycle and it's been most interesting!

Thank you

[KaraokeKarlton]

99. You're quite welcome

and perhaps you can understand Dean's choices a little better than you previously did. He's not unfriendly to Native Americans. He simply deals with facts. The facts simply aren't on the side of the Abenaki tribe in Vermont. That's the jist of it.

[bain_sidhe]

92. KK, an OT about your tribal affiliation

You said up thread that you're not part of this tribe trying to get recognition (leaving aside the whole thorny issue of why). Is the tribe you're from recognized?

[KaraokeKarlton]

101. The tribe my grandfather was from is recognized

It's a long, complicated and confusing story, but suffice to say that I am not and have never been involved in his tribe. I used the terminology I did out of laziness and not wanting to have to explain the whole long story. It's not "my" tribe, but it was my Gramp's.

The other time I had this conversation with people on DU it was assumed that my lack of involvement in the tribe meant that I didn't really care about my heritage and history. The fact of the matter is, I do care, very much, but disagree with much of the tribal activities. Too much is motivated by greed, and I really, really dislike that.

We'll just leave it at that.

[nancyharris]

64. Very good Abenaki Nation of Missisquoi web site.

Interesting history and stories.
http://www.abenakination.org/

[Clark4VotingRights]

70. Another great endorsement. I love the fact that native americans

seem to embrace him. This is not his first native american
endorsement.

[TexasSissy]

80. There's something about Native American endorsement that tugs @ my heart.

Something about them being the lost first Americans and all. This is a welcome endorsement. I don't know how important it is in the longrun, but it is an endorsement to be proud of.

[Egnever]

88. theres something about endorsements made out of spite

that make me what to wretch. This endorsement is nothing short of a poke in the eye forc Dean from the abernaki's. To be proud of being a tool for a "tribes" vengance is prety lame if you ask me.

Though it is a good endorsement for clark cause there are a ton of ignorant people out there that wont look to the history of this tribe and dean and will take it as a heartland endorsement instead of the money driven payback it really is.

Dean refused a bunch of pretenders a casino they got pissed and are now trying to get back at him .... WOOPEDIE DO!

[PatrioticOhioLiberal]

94. Bitter, bitter, bitter

So all those NDN's are "pretenders"? :wow:

[KaraokeKarlton]

103. Not all of the tribe are pretenders

There are some valid issues the Vermont Abenaki have, but the loudest voices are the ones who want a casino, unfotunately. On top of that, the tribe doesn't have the things required to get recognition. That's not Dean's fault. It's the fault of an Abenaki chief back in the 1700's who refused to sign a treaty of defeat and essentially disavowed his identity, changed his name to imply he was French and as a leader, many followed suit. The bulk of the bands moved to Quebec and those that didn't were mostly pretending to be french. The pretenders (and there are a few) only further complicate things and stir up hard feelings and rhetoric. It's a case of misplaced efforts, really. You're right that this is a grudge endorsement to punish Dean for not pandering. He deals in facts and the facts for recognition simply aren't there.

[adadem]

83. Congrats to the General n/t

[sleipnir]

95. Hummmm....interesting endorsement....though Tweety hates it

Good to hear that some other groups are endorsing Clark.

[oasis]

96. Go for it Abenaki's YOU have the power. Or does the Dean theme apply only

in certain cases?