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Will The Real Howard Dean Please Stand Up? (Time 1/11)

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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-12-04 03:37 PM
Original message
Will The Real Howard Dean Please Stand Up? (Time 1/11)
More to article. Author brings up valid points, IMO.

Will the Real Howard Dean Please Stand Up?
He's had an easy ride so far, but Dean is still too hard to read
By JOE KLEIN

On the one hand, Dean is doing many of the things I've always admired in politicians.... He not only speaks plain English, he speaks unafraid English. Consequently, he has reopened the Democratic Party—formerly a political nursing home—to idealistic young people. ...

But there is a monumental "on the other hand" with Dean. There is a recklessness about the man, an adolescent screw-you defiance that runs much deeper than the steady stream of gaffes produced by his projectile candor. In Exeter, N.H., last month I watched as he called the moderate Democratic Leadership Council "the Republican wing of the Democratic Party." I could see the "Republican wing" dig occur to him as he was talking about the need to bring Democrats together. His face lit up, his eyes danced, and he couldn't resist the pleasure of the zinger, even though it undercut his intended message and might cost him support down the road. He knew exactly what he was doing.

The carelessness extends to many of Dean's policy statements. His position on trade, for example. Dean assumes that the threat of American tariffs would force countries like China to raise salaries and standards—but such a threat would merely be another form of the arrogant, ineffective unilateralism that Dean has rightly criticized in Iraq. Trade sanctions require global cooperation. Recent history suggests that most countries, including those of the European Union, are more interested in low prices than in human rights (especially in China). In any case, as Bill Clinton used to say, the factory jobs that have gone away aren't coming back, and the only way to create new ones is the hard way—through innovation and a better-educated work force. But Dean's brand of straight talk leaves little room for complexity, and his self-proclaimed "intuitive" style leaves plenty of room for error.

snip
He has trafficked in rumors, as when he mentioned on National Public Radio that there was "an interesting theory" that the President was told in advance by the Saudis about the Sept. 11 attacks. He quickly disavowed the theory, but no responsible politician, much less a candidate for President, should raise such slander without firm proof. I wonder about his often blatant cynicism—how he could suddenly, after insisting that his faith was a private matter, say last week that God had inspired his decision to allow gay civil unions. I admire his wife's choice not to be involved in the campaign and his own choice not to take a maudlin autobiographical path on the stump, but these decisions leave a void. They make it harder to know what sort of man he is. I wonder how he delivered bad news to his patients.


http://www.time.com/time/election2004/columnist/klein/article/0,18471,574861,00.html
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-12-04 03:38 PM
Response to Original message
1. Hey, I've heard that before
B-)
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bearfartinthewoods Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-12-04 04:19 PM
Response to Reply #1
15. you're back?
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Eloriel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-12-04 03:41 PM
Response to Original message
2. Ah, another smear piece
And you know that's what it is because Joe didn't bother to find out the whole quote from Dean re the Saudi-9-11 "rumor," or perhaps he did and it didn't make such great copy so he decided to leave it out.

Yeah, that one I'll definitely want to read.

Eloriel
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billbuckhead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-12-04 03:48 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. I'd never forgive him for using the IWR vote as a wedge issue.........
and dividing the party, but I already couldn't forgive Dean for being endorsed 8 times by the NRA without complaining. I guess he's not on the NRA enemies list.
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Sean Reynolds Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-12-04 03:49 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Too bad it was a wedge issue.
Edited on Mon Jan-12-04 03:50 PM by Sean Reynolds
Dean didn't create it. The Democrats should have listened to their party (THE PEOPLE), they didn't. Now look at the polls; the two top candidates both were against the war.

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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-12-04 05:39 PM
Response to Reply #4
24. Ah, But Dean Said "It's Not Who Voted For What Resolution"
None of that matters according to Dean. Get over it.
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helleborient Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-12-04 04:15 PM
Response to Reply #3
13. Yes, we know, you would prefer Democrats supporting IWR...
The wedge issue emerged because many many of us disagreed with the votes of Kerry, Edwards, and Gephardt.

A worthy wedge issue in my mind.
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jadesfire Donating Member (114 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-12-04 04:27 PM
Response to Reply #3
19. Hear! Hear!
I am so tired of him being able to get away with things like a bad enviro record in Vermont and a 100% rating from the NRA (they don't just throw those around, you have to earn it).

If any of the other candidates had these problems with their record they would be toast- but because people are soooooooo willing to give up on their values to feel like they are a part of the "movement" that they will ignore anything that would normally be opposite of what they support.
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NewYorkerfromMass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-12-04 03:50 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. Re: the Bush/Saudi-9-11 rumor
Dean should never ever ever have mentioned it. It was major radioactive material, and could do him and his chances of winning absolutely no good to talk about.
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bearfartinthewoods Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-12-04 04:24 PM
Response to Reply #2
17. please....every biddy on the planet prefaces a rumor with
"not that i believe it for a second but"
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cryofan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-12-04 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #2
20. not a smear piece--he never mentioned Dean's plans about Social Security
How can you call it a smear piece? He never even mentioned about how dean wanted to raise the eligibility age for Social Security and Medicare, and how he wants to cut social safety net programs such as veterans benefits. Oh, yeah, I know he is not saying that NOW, but before he started running for president, before he was trying to get liberal votes in the primaries, Dean was ALL ABOUT balancing the budget by cutting social programs and reducing their availability. Does the article mention that?

See www.mylinuxisp.com/~cryofan/dean.html for proof.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-12-04 04:49 PM
Response to Reply #2
21. Exacltly. Just the same as with Gore. Post a quote but only take the
part that verifies what you are trying to prove and leave out the rest which puts the quote in context.

Just more DLC misinformation. I thought the article was going to make an honest observation which might be interesting. Instead it's the same old tricks.

They think it worked once and it will work again, so they just keep at it day and night, on and on. They do it with Dean and they will do it with the other candidates.
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Hep Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-12-04 03:50 PM
Response to Original message
6. The media clowns in 2004, and more D's are falling for it than
swing voters fell for it in 2000. How freaking sad is that?
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JPZenger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-12-04 03:54 PM
Response to Original message
7. Let's Be Civil
I am a big supporter of Wesley Clark. But please, lets be civil in our constructive criticisms of other candidates. Whoever is nominated, we will need the support of everyone to win. Look at the Electoral college - many of the States that the Democrats won in 2000 have fewer electoral votes in 2004 than they did in 2000.

Dean has energized many young people - we will need them to win.
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NewYorkerfromMass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-12-04 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. O.K. Let's all stop reading Time magazine and Joe Klein. eom
Edited on Mon Jan-12-04 03:57 PM by NewYorkerfromMass
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Hep Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-12-04 03:57 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Sorry, impossible
The small handful of beligerent Dean opponents have already decided not to be civil. We see threads like this about 10 times every day. I'm afraid it's just too late for civility.
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DemBones DemBones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-12-04 04:03 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Dean supporters have been belligerent from the

early days, attacking other candidates just as Dean does. If we actually looked at all the first posts on DU re: campaigns 2004, I think we'd find a lot of early incivility from Dean supporters. Dean supporters have always attacked anyone who questions their candidate's positions or record, unable to admit his flaws.
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helleborient Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-12-04 04:18 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. If it's a good negative, Kucinich supporters like Joe Klein?
The guy who refers to Dennis as a minor candidate....

"But a minor candidate, Congressman Dennis Kucinich, threw down a wildly provocative challenge: "We should bring the troops home now."

http://www.time.com/time/columnist/klein/article/0,9565,483270,00.html
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Hep Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-12-04 04:25 PM
Response to Reply #10
18. You've got a star
Stop speculating and do some research. To make an assertion like yours and not actually do the legwork is pretty bad.
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newyawker99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-12-04 05:27 PM
Response to Reply #7
23. Hi JPZenger!!
Welcome to DU!! :toast:
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DemBones DemBones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-12-04 04:05 PM
Response to Original message
11. Joe Klein expresses an important

feeling that many of us have about Dean:

"My Dean problem, though, runs deeper than policy. I'm not sure how all the pieces of his personality fit together. I don't know how his almost casual anger and adolescent taunting coexist with the patient idealism inherent in his belated decision to become a doctor. In my experience, even the most arrogant doctors tend to be careful sorts, but Dean is noisy and precipitate. "
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helleborient Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-12-04 04:14 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. So Joe Klein's stereotypes about doctors are important????
Joe Klein, the guy who supposedly whispered to Kerry to can his campaign head, resulting in 5 days of media meltdown for Kerry, is such a reliable person to depend on for campaign advice....
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Clark Can WIN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-12-04 04:22 PM
Response to Original message
16. It's not the monumental other hand
It's the monumental foot he keeps putting in his mouth.
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Cheswick2.0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-12-04 04:50 PM
Response to Original message
22. Hey, I've heard that before
B-)
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