* to IT workers - go back to school your not educated enough.

[newportdadde]

As a mainframe programmer this made my stomach turn watching this. I've only been in the industry for 5 years but if I could only describe to you how things have changed at my workplace. Morale is at an all time low, I have 15 or 20 empty cubes just in my immediate area and everywhere I walk I run into folks from India. Our IT area is underseige. Some of my own job objectives are to maximize offshore resources.

Now * tries to make the argument for education. I spent my entire life building my education, best grades, internship etc etc, 4 years at a state university. Perhaps the argument of education might have worked in the past if you lost a factory job.. maybe. Now though what are we suppose to train in? Any and I mean any type of job that can be sent via internet, accounting, research for attorneys are all at risk.

If offshore work can eat into IT then those people working the general business areas in corporation you know those folks who got the 2.5 in college general business degree etc had better watch their ass because its not stopping at IT.

[shoelace414]

1. he mostly said

go back to GRADE MIDDLE AND HIGH SCHOOL

[durablend]

5. Everyone's missing the obvious...

* is suggesting you go and get what could be termed a "Reverse education". Smart people aren't welcome in Bushworld...STOOPID is where it's at (and Wal-Mart is where those jobs are at!)

[demnan]

2. Reverse education

You should be dumn enough to be happy to work at Walmart, Communist.

[NanBo]

3. This got me screaming

too. As * was yammerin about education and no child left behind regarding out sourcing and jobs, I kept yelling at the screen "What about IT jobs asshole! These people already ARE educated you dumb fuck." Oh I was very mad about that one !@!!!@@!

[kcwayne]

4. Add engineers, life sciences research, financial analysts, and legal work

to the list, because these are all being outsourced as well.

[Unstuck In Time]

6. "... it's not stopping at IT." Very scary, but all too true. n/t

:scared:

[Rockholm]

7. Wow, I just posted the same thing on another thread!

This is ASININE!

[crispini]

8. This really pissed me off

When I think about all of my coworkers who have been laid off. All highly trained intelligent people.

IIRC at this point in the debate I flipped off the TV.

Edit: flipped the bird to the TV, not turned it off. :D

[elehhhhna]

9. You forgot Poland Community College!

[oscar111]

13. 14 million Job Shortage: if all PhD's, still 14 mill. jobless

to refute the oft RW game of blaming unemployment on "need more education, thats all"..

cite Job Shortage.
No matter if all citizens here had doctoral degrees, 14 million would still be jobless.

17 million unemployed or discouraged.. minus the total job openings.. merely 3 million...., gives 14 million Job Shortage.

find job openings... go DOL dept labor site, Project JOLT, news releases, t of contents , then job openings levels table. NOT the rate table.

media is full of feactional partial job stats.. that mislead. Get the real bottom line.. Job Shortage stat.. which you calculate as above. Sadly, the LW has a "culture" in which we keep using the partial stats the media have adopted. Few of us seem smart enough to see how Job Shortage is the Big Picture stat.

The JS stat also nips off Lumbaugh's "the jobless are just lazy" argument.

[lukasahero]

10. Thank you for noticing!

I was out of my mind with this one last night. My sleepy husband, a programmer for 20 years who spent all of 2002 unemployed, was awakened by my shouting obscenities at shrub. He should go back to Junior College after graduating with highest honors in Math from a top university and then going back for other degrees? Not to mention his frickin' 20 years of experience in the g*d d*mn field!!!! Rrrrrgggh.

Frickin' frackin' idiot moran. Mutter mutter mutter, moran. I so despise this freak.

[Riptide]

18. Same at our house...

My husband is a computer programmer, with an undergrad and masters degree. He had to leave consulting and take a lower paying job with a big company, because consultants were being fired and their jobs outsourced to India.

Now, Dumbya tells my husband he should go to COMMUNITY college!! What the hell is that going to do for him? I think it just goes to show how clueless he is about outsourcing.

[lukasahero]

21. I feel your pain. ;-)

Mine hasn't yet gotten out of consulting but he's considering a permanent position with the company he's at now (at a substantial pay cut) just so he can have the "security" of knowing he has a job - until they decide to outsource - some security.

Shrub is so clueless. I can hardly speak about how out of touch he is without launching into another profanity-laden rant so I won't but I did want to thank you for letting me know we're not alone. :hi:

I agree with the poster here who said it's a war against intellectualism (not to mention a war on the classes). Shrub wants anyone who's not a CEO to be the hired help and barely get by.

[LiberalEsto]

11. There are not ENOUGH IT workers in the US

according to the IT industry, which is pressing the feds to lift caps on H1B visas to let more foreign technical workers into the US. It's in the business section of today's Washington Post.

[nickinSTL]

14. WHAT?!?!

That is UTTER B$LLSH!T!

If they want more IT people, I know several who'd love to have a job who are already IN THIS COUNTRY!

B@st@rds! Not bad enough to outsource the IT jobs, now bring them into the country and pay them minimum wage here?

[LiberalEsto]

17. Here's the link:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A30851-2004Oct13.html

You may need to register to get into the Post website


This H1B visa shit has been going on for YEARS. My husband is a DBA for a big agency in Washington and has seen many co-workers laid off and replaced by "TaTas".

TaTas are people sent to the US by the big Tata Corporation in India. They live jam-packed in dorms and are paid far less than their American co-workers, work here for the duration of their H1B visas and go back to India with big bank accounts.

And still the companies who are laying off IT people in the US continue to whine that the visa caps are preventing them from bringing in even more cheap Tata workers.

It is beyond disgraceful.

[oscar111]

19. DBA?

xxx

[nickinSTL]

24. DBA- Data Base Administrator

n/t

[donco6]

12. My out of work friends are all college grads.

Business, IT, education - lots of different areas. This didn't sit well with them at all.

[oscar111]

15. surgeon in australia operated on patient in US: ALL jobs can be sent to In

to India.

He used net cameras and robotic hands to operate from afar.

that combination will allow indians to flip burgers here, or pick up garbage and flip into the truck,... and do YOUR job.

16 in the third world lust after EVERY single US job.

Numbers prove some of them smarter than you are... a base population of 4.8 billion in third world, is bound to have many who are born with higher IQ's than a base population like our small 300 million.

And they all can live on a dollar a day. Many speak english, the rest can learn fast.

[nickinSTL]

16. This really ticked me off

I yelled at the TV (common occurrence for me when Bush is speaking :D)

My fiancee has been out of work for THREE YEARS! She had TEN YEARS OF EXPERIENCE AS A PROGRAMMER!

And the low-wage jobs she can't get...because she has ten years of experience as a programmer.

How many IT people's votes did Bush lose last night?

[oscar111]

22. GOP goal:Mexico model, no middle class here: Outsource and tata's come

No bushie needs any middle class here...

Mexico proves it can be done. Our future is 30 billionaires, 300 million starving... parallel to Mexico today. It has several billionaires.

Any job not yet outsourced, staff it with tata's in barracks. Or Mexicans in barracks.. which is how many are housed today.

Racists elect republicans, republicans end the middle class.. that is our nation for the next few centuries. Unless we stop it.

[LuminousX]

20. De-Education

Or... maybe Bush is proposing Re-Education Camps.

[LiberalAndProud]

23. Somebody needs to tell him mfg jobs are not the only jobs we

have lost due to outsourcing.

[CityHall]

25. Evidently he has a point: "you're vs. your"

I wonder if they teach that in community college?

[donco6]

26. Anything that CAN be shipped, WILL be.

When it's all about profit, that's what happens.

Any job that can be done long distance (remember telecommuting - guess we didn't think about a commute from Bangalore!) will be shipped out. Manufacturing left long ago. Customer service - kaput. IT is already gone. Accounting functions are next.

The only type of job that will remain will be jobs where proximity is important. Sales jobs (many sales in US still depend on a handshake, for some reason). Education, though if Bush had his way, all of our kids would just be sitting in front of computers. Of course, anything to do with the human condition - food service, grocery, dentist, doctors, hospitals.

"These jobs are goin' boys, and they ain't comin' back"

[Virginian]

27. its not stopping at IT.

Accounting jobs are going to India, too.

My spouse works for a large CPA firm. They already ship many of the more simple tax returns to India to be processed. He's starting to worry.

I'm in IT. My job went to an H1-b company. I don't have a clearance, so I have been job hunting for a year. I was just retrained 5 - 7 years ago.

Before Bush, we were looking forward to retirement in about 12 - 15 years. That is no longer possible. People shouldn't have to start over when they are in their 50's.

[oscar111]

28. retirement did not exist in the 1800's: GOP seems to be getting rid of it

once again. Saves the owners lots of cash. For those thousand dollar omlets at the Parker Meridian Hotel, NYC.

Reagan caused the housewives to have to get a job, something it seems no one mentions as his fault.