Why Sharpton's attack on Dean was ridiculous.

[the populist]

Vermont has a black population of roughly 2000 (0.3%). The chances of finding a qualified person in ANY population of 2000 for a cabinet position is nearly nonexistent. Then you add the fact that blacks, due to social injustice, have been denied quality education; and that makes it even harder to find people eligible for the job.

And one can hardly blame Dean for choosing to represent 0% of a 0.3% demographic rather than represent 16.67%. You might as well accuse the governor of New York for practicing institutionalized racism against Iranian-Americans for not having any Iranian-Americans in his cabinet.


Agreed?

[NJCher]

1. that's what I thought, too

Al needs to pick his battles a little better.

CMB set him straight, though. I've liked her from Day One.


Cher

[jmaier]

2. I agree

that it is a silly issue (the cabinet issue specifically.)

On the larger issues about racial sensitivity, I suspect Gov Dean is probably fine on those issues but Vermont isn't a very good platform for governing to actually demonstrate that sensitivity. I'll just trust what he says even though he isn't my candidate of first choice.

[bigtree]

3. Do cabinet members have to hail from his state before he chooses them ?

Don't officeholders regularly pull in qualified cabinet members from other states? What about Gov. Dean's pool of black and hispanic friends?

[isbister]

22. No

they don't

[Clark Can WIN]

4. 12 years, 5 terms, ~~~~WHITES ONLY~~~~

Sharpton asked if he had ANY minorities in his cabinet. This would include Iranian-Americans.

Your post traffics in racial stereotypes, implying that there wouldn't be enough educated eligible minorities.

[the populist]

7. I'm a racist, now?

Heard of the law of large numbers? Take a statistics course, friend, before hurling insults at me.

[Clark Can WIN]

27. I meant exactly what I said

Your post traffics in racial stereotypes. If you find it insulting, what am I to do? :shrug:


I stand by my statement, your suggestions for my course instruction not withstanding.

[KissMyAsscroft]

8. If that question had been leveled at Clark, you would be outraged.

I haven't seen Clark in enough pictures with LAtinos! He doesn't have enough Latinos in his campaign!

Pretty idiotic, isn't it?

[w4rma]

28. That wasn't Sharpton's question. (n/t)

[KissMyAsscroft]

5. The entire premise of the question was idiotic...

If the same charge had been leveled at any other candidate I would say the same thing.

So if you have blacks and latinos in your cabinet, than that somehow makes you a noble person? By that logic, Bush is doing a great service for race relations in this country.

It's just a petty stab at the front runner, and a sad wild swing from Sharpton.

This illustrates why I can't stand Sharpton.

[the populist]

10. I am Gephardt supporter

and I'm defending Dean within a week of when Dean is going to destroy my candidate's career. That should tell you how disgusted I am with Sharpton's remarks.


edit: And I loathe CMB also. But when I hear something like what Sharpton said, I just can't stay silent.

[eileen from OH]

19. Good for you and thanks!

Objective comments are always so damn welcome to me!

I'll give ya one back - I support Dean, but Gephardt has been an unstinting supporter of labor and I admire him and would cheer him on and donate if he wins. And I don't think that his career will be ruined if Dean wins - the Dems NEED a voice like Gephardt's in the party.

Thanks again,

eileen from OH

[HumanPatriot]

6. Another reason...

Because its easier for a camel to get through of an eye of a neede than for Sharpton to get the nomination. He is doing nothing but creating an issue that could destroy the dems chance in 2004. If it wasn't Dean, hed be attacking someone else. There are much better ways to get your point across than becoming a new Nader.

[KissMyAsscroft]

9. Amen HumanPatriot!!!!

He shoots, he scores! Sharpton is not a viable candidate so he is swinging wildly....it's PATHETIC.

[Bombtrack]

11. this doesn't need to be argued anymore

the number of even Dean critics who think that it was his responsibility to have a black or latino or asian on his cabinet is very small

[auburnblu]

12. Your post tells me something

Don't forget he Sharpton also included Hispanics. Your post indicates to me a belief held by waaaaaaaaay too many on the left. Oh that person is black, they just can't be qualified, there is no way. When are those "enlightened" on the left going to quit treating minorities like they just quite aren't up to par.

In the New Year DUers, make a resolution, don't automatically assume someone is less capable just because of their demographic status.

[the populist]

16. Read my post again.

I don't think you really read it, but just assumed what I was going to say.

3000 blacks
approximately 1200 blacks who aren't too old (and that's being generous)
Should Dean have gone door to door among that 1200 just so he could ward off a desperate lunatic's attacks?

[Sir_Shrek]

13. Hmmm.....

Major cans of worms being opened here folks....

Just remember these types of defenses when people ask why there is a distinct lack of minorities being interviewed for CEO positions at some big company, admitted to certain schools/colleges, or whathaveyou.

[beaconess]

17. Smell the irony?

Howard Dean goes around lecturing everyone about affirmative action and why it's important to help white people confront and get past their natural inclination to hire only people who look like them and thereby, shut down opportunities for minorities. He goes on and on ad nauseum about this with impunity for months. Then, finally, someone notes that he never hired any minorities in his cabinet in his entire 12 years as governor.

And what happens? His supporters roar to his defense by arguing that, oh, well, yes, Gov. Dean did only appoint people who looked like him but he had a good reason for doing it - after all, he couldn't find one single qualified minority in the entire state!

How strange that they don't realize that that is EXACTLY the attitude that has perpetuated racial discrimination for decades in this country. After all, just like everyone in prison is innocent, no employer EVER discriminates - they just can't find qualified minorities.

Poor Dr. Dean. No one seems to understand that when he talked about holding people accountable for only hiring people who look just like them, he didn't mean to include HIMSELF! It's only other people who have to be called on such behavior - Dr. Dean is beyond reproach.

[Sir_Shrek]

20. The other thing that I think is a weakness with Dean...

...is that his background is not that much different from Bush. He's a Yale-educated, Manhattan-bred white guy. My conservatives buddies delight in pointing out that irony as well.

I have never been a big Dean fan (I don't really care to bash him mercilessly though), but this is the other thing that bothers me even more: Take Dean's background, and all of this stuff about having never hired a minority to serve on his cabinet. If Dean were a Republican, there'd be Dems out there that would positively skewer him. The argument would be that he's a white guy from a well-to-do background governing a lily-white state smaller than some major US cities....how could he possibly be prepared to handle the racial issues that affect this entire nation when his political career has essentially been insulated from issues like this? This is the other argument my conservative friends are quickly latching on to. The argument that "there are no blacks in Vermont" would only be further proof he lacks the exposure, if he were a Republican. This is something that's going to catch a lot folks off guard if they're not careful.....can of worms, people.

[eissa]

14. For goodness sake

I think we all know what a non-issue this is except for those who choose to make it one for political reasons. Everyone agrees that Dean is not a racist; what are the critics trying to pull here? I grew up in an area with a very small black population (no African-Americans in elementary; 3 in jr. high, and 2 in high school). I had some African-American friends in college, but according to Sharpton, that's not good enough. What if I ran a business in this area and didn't have any black employees? I guess it's ok to use minorities for show the way * does.

[Ripley]

15. If Sharpton really wants a Dem to be president...

why the hell does he do everything in his power to try to paint Dean as a racist (which he is not) when he may very well be the nominee? How will Al go back to blacks and say, "oh, nevermind, let's all rally behind Whitey now?"

I guess Al thinks it would be a good thing if blacks just sat this one out if Dean is the choice. Yep. Good strategy for keeping Smirky around.

[Snivi Yllom]

24. Al doesn't really care about the Presidency

He's in it for himself. As far as he is concerned having a Republican in office gives him more opportunities to have a vocal voice and get press. to hell with everyone else. Seriously.

[DuctapeFatwa]

18. Was Dean's All-White cabinet supposed to be a secret?

If so, I don't think anyone had mentioned that to Sharpton. I'm sure he would not have brought it up if he thought it was clasified information.

Besides, wasn't it just a little while ago that Dean's supporters were concerned about his popularity with conservative southern rural whites?

[eileen from OH]

21. Not at all

I don't think the point is the scarcity of minorities or assumptions about education, which I find condescending. And, quite frankly, when someone starts in with statistics/percentages I get the heebie-jeebies cuz it sounds like the dreaded "quota" business.

I think the point is:
Did Dean search out qualified candidates, regardless of their race, sex or anything else? Was there anything that indicated an unwillingness to do so? Is there any evidence that Dean showed a reluctance to bring minorities in his cabinet?

And, most importantly, what kind of opportunities were available OUTSIDE OF THE CABINET for minorities within the Dean administration.

I think the big "G" of Sharpton's "Gotcha" was his limiting it to the cabinet, which is comprised of 6 people. If there had been one, would it have been tokenism? If there would have been three, would it have been pandering? If there had been a concerted effort to get a certain number on board, would it have been "quotas"?

My point is that Sharpton implied that you had to have a "minority" within one small set, and defined "minority" (which includes a lot more things than race). He totally ignored that there are plenty of positions of power outside of that small set, and that the definition of "minority" doesn't just mean African-Americans or Latinos.

eileen from OH

[Snivi Yllom]

23. Sharpton is running for President

for himself, not for blacks or anyone else.

What he did to Dean was disgusting.

[quaker bill]

25. Not entirely

I do not know that his choices were restricted to current residents of Vermont.

That being aside, I think Sharpton's attack was intentionally aimed at a very small group of positions (6) because that was the only basis to attack upon. Had he looked a bit more broadly, say to the Senior Management level, the results would not have favored his argument.

That is why when Dean tried to mention it, Sharpton cut him off.

More gotcha politics from a guy that was grandstanding and more than a bit miffed that Dean has gotten so many endorsements from Black leaders.

[mmonk]

26. Sharpton's attacks were uncalled for.

[the populist]

29. And I would like to add...

that cabinet positions aren't supposed to be doled out to be nice to certain constituents. That's called patronage. I wouldn't trust a man who would load his cabinet up with certain people just to appeal to certain demographics. If the number of minorities in your cabinet had anything to do with how progressive you are then * would be Dennis Kucinich.