What John Kerry Should do re: Mary Cheney

[MsTryska]

i put this as a response in another thread, and htne relaized that there are so many threads going on about this, that maybe i should start my own. :D

in any case - i think he should make a public statement to the effect of:

I apologize for any offense taken by the Cheney Family regarding my commenta at the debate. I meant no harm, and i was jsut trying to put a personal face on the issues of Gays and Lesbians and attempt to show how one of the leaders of our country and his family are able to bypass any stigma, and accept their daughter for who she is. I was trying to portray the Cheney's as a shining example of acceptance, not air "dirty laundry" as it's been perceived by others. Once again, for any offense I am deeply apologetic.



i think it would bust the bubble of indignation right quick.

1. 'Murkans love apologies.
2. He shows himself to be a man who can admit he's made a mistake
3. well i'm sure y'all can figure it out from there. ;-)

[Jim Sagle]

1. No apologies.

[MsTryska]

3. I think the classy thing to do is apologize for offending.

you don't have to apologize for your statement (which really requires no apology)


no one ever wants to look ungrateful once an apology has been offered, and it would shut the press up and the cheney's up real quick and we can get on with Bush's not carign about bin Laden.

[emulatorloo]

8. NO APOLOGIES - He did not "OFFEND" or "INSULT" anybody

He said Mary Cheney is one of God's Children, just like every body else.


Lynne and Dick are "OFFENDED" only because it is politically expedient.

[MsTryska]

11. Exactly.

So apologize for offending Dick and Lynne, and rob them of their steam. if they have the bad taste to keep being pissy, it jsut reflects back on them.

[SeanQ]

99. Precisely

We need to get this behind us and get the media back focused on the OBL gaff and economic issues. Or talking about how the environment never came up in the debate and the candidates should make their platforms known somehow.

[MsTryska]

101. Thank you for understanding.....

the majority of people here seem ot think i'm a moran for even suggesting it.

but the quickest way to redirect soemthign in your favor is to stop, acknowledge, and move one to the next thing.

[liberalnurse]

15. Well then you apologize ......

I think that pandering to the fake- wounded Cheney's is just what they want.

Absolutely not, never apologize. Kerry gave *bush a real, accessible gay contact.....so he could do his home work.


Gheeze......

[MsTryska]

21. I don't think it's pandering.

look at my suggested statement. consider the rw base. it's finely crafted, and very subtle. and again, shows class and strength.

[liberalnurse]

It shows a guilty, defeatist position......

Most of all, there is nothing for Kerry to apologize for! Mary has been out for years. Yes, she is gay, a lesbian and her daddy and mommy are ashamed of it. They need to apologize. Kerry was quite respectable....he treated Mary as an equal citizen....not a "queer" like the repugs do.

[ClassWarrior]

38. That's exactly right, Nurse.

24.

[MsTryska]

42. I don't think it's guilty or defeatist at all.

If you step on someone's toe, you apologize.


If someone perceives you have insulted them, you apologize that you have given them that perception.


it's first families we're talking about right now. and this is old-school gentlemanly politics. I perosnally think it's time we brought the class back to the white house. I think a lot of america wants it back.


and i think a maneuver like this would bring in more votes for our guy.

[ClassWarrior]

54. You don't apologize when you did nothing wrong.

John Kerry: I'm sorry you're a bunch of lying, cheating, thieving scum who are twisting my words and intent to maintain your ill-gotten power. It's all my fault.

24.

[MsTryska]

58. As soon as someone chooses to be offended and indignant,

it's the right thing to apologize for making them feel that way.


it defuses the situtation, and keeps them from being able to take potshots at you to anyone who'll listen from that point on.

a little humility never hurt anyone. Arrogance, however, has.

[ClassWarrior]

61. Waitaminnut...

Did they "choose" to be offended and indignant? Or did Sen. Kerry "make" them feel that way? It can't be both ways. Which is it?? Huh??

The point is THEY'RE NOT OFFENDED AND INDIGNANT - they're playing politics. Plain and simple. No arrogance is necessary on our part - just a resolute refusal to play on their turf.

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[sangh0]

66. SHe is incredibly unreasonable

She just said that no matter what THE FACTS are, if you hurt someone's feeling, you should apologize.

So if I say "I think blacks should have equal rights", and someone is offended by that, I should apologize.

[liberalnurse]

74. Everyone is entitled to their feelings.......

The key is, What they do with them".


They Cheney's took their shame, their feelings regarding Mary being a Lesbian, to the media, used their shameful gay daughter as a prop for political gain. They did not present their feelings as being "hurt"....they attacked with hate and distain for Kerry.


They used their daughter and should apologize to Mary!

[MsTryska]

79. You and I can definitely agree on that.

I think in the midst of all this, Mary does deserve an apology from her folks for pimping her for their political gains. but she did put herself in a place to be pimped, so let's not make her the victim.

[sangh0]

83. "Mary does deserve an apology from her folks "

so you start a thread saying Kerry should apologize

:shrug:

[MsTryska]

85. How about you get out of my ass?

your logic is weak, so you keep insulting me instead.


i've alreayd said i'm not addressing you anymore, so consider this a "flip-flop". either way, it's my last acknowledgement until you learn some respect.

[sangh0]

86. Request denied

I don't respect your idea, and I have no intention in being silent about that.

[MsTryska]

71. I know they're not really offended and idignant....

you know it, John Kerry knows it and they know it.



Unfortunately - the people watching the news clips (which are pissing me off, because they keep cutting off the "we're all god's children" bit) don't know that. or don't want to acknowledge. they feel he's crossed the line and gotten personal, talking about people's families.

they don't know what alan keyes said. hell most of them don't even know who alan keyes is.


Giving them the apology they're not asking for, without giving them the satisfaction of being able to trash talk you for the next 19 days (on this particular issue), is playing politics right back.

or maybe i'm coming at this with some sort of Southern sensibility. This is akin to a Junior League catfight, and it always helps to look like the classy one.

[ClassWarrior]

73. So in the south you look classy by grovelling and apologizing...

...for things you didn't do? Wow. You learn something new every day.

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[MsTryska]

82. Again...why does apologizing

mean one's being somebody's "bitch", to you?

are you that caught up in your own ego?


apologizing, expressing your regret, whatever you want to call it, is a show of strength, it always has been.

it doesn't make you a groveling pussy.

jesus h. christ.

[sangh0]

84. Now you are resorting making stuff up

CW didn't use the word "bitch"

apologizing, expressing your regret, whatever you want to call it, is a show of strength, it always has been.

It worked with Clinton, right?

it doesn't make you a groveling pussy.

No one said that.

[ClassWarrior]

87. Thanks sangh0...

She's now been posting for more than an hour on this subject. Time that could be better spent calling undecideds.

24.

[MsTryska]

90. you've been right here with me...

along with a couple of others.
have oyu bene dialing with one hand, typing with the other? if not, oyu should prolly get back to the phones, huh?


people in glass houses and all that.

[sangh0]

91. CW didn't use the word "bitch"

CW didn't use the word "bitch". You made that up, and now you won't defend it.

apologizing, expressing your regret, whatever you want to call it, is a show of strength, it always has been.

It worked with Clinton, right? (You still haven't responded to this)

it doesn't make you a groveling pussy.

No one said that. (You still haven't responded to this, either)

[ClassWarrior]

95. Hmmmm... maybe I need to apologize to her...

...for her distortion that I used the word bitch?

24.

[ClassWarrior]

93. Hmmmm... deja vu?

you really have no business asking about my free time, or questioning my commitment, but understand that i have been living, eating and sleeping this campaign for a while now. I've gotten many people who have NEVER voted in their lives, fired up and excited about voting for the first time. I hold debate parties, open houses, and screenings in my home. I give money that truth be told i really can't afford, to ensure we have a new president.

how dare you question my "commitment to the cause" just because you don't like what i may be saying?

how does this make you any different from the "either with us or against us" president we are all working to get rid of? you should be ashamed of yourself.

LOL.

24.

[MsTryska]

96. Exactly.

we've already covered why i might be here posting.

so umm..why are you still here typing away?

[sangh0]

103. For the same reason you keep saying an apology will end the talk

even though it didn't work for Clinton.

[sangh0]

76. You said...

As soon as someone chooses to be offended and indignant, it's the right thing to apologize for making them feel that way.

NOw, it's been changed to "As soon as someone PRETENDS TO chooses to be offended and indignant, it's the right thing to apologize for making them feel that way.

[liberalnurse]

75. Yes, you got that RIGHT!

[liberalnurse]

70. Okay, tell me where, where do you see Kerry stepping

on the Cheney's toes? Mary is a well known, famous outed lesbian who works for her daddy's campaign with her partner....and lets the repugs "use" her gayness as a prop to look fair and balanced.

Where is the insult? Would it be an insult if he noted she had blonde hair? No difference.


You tell me......where is the insult?

[MsTryska]

72. I don't think he stepped on Mary's toes at all.

I don't think he said anything wrong.


However, as long as LYnn and Dick Cheney have a perceived wrong that hasn't been set right, they've got stump speech material that allows them to look like true martyrs because "this man has made an below the belt blow to our family name".


if you think that's not a powerful emotional tool, that can be used to maniuplate people on a visceral level, than i don't know what to tell you.

[sangh0]

78. Then you don't know what to tell us

because it is NOT "a powerful emotional tool"

It's powerful with emotional tools, like the repukes. Surprisingly, I don't think they are going to vote for Kerry no matter what he says about lesbians

[liberalnurse]

81. No, no way....

that is a direct score for the repugs....that was what the media statement they made was all about....they think we might be stupid enough to fall for the ploy.....and thats all it is. I bet you would'nt admitt to stealing money or coorporate property if you didn't do it......

[MsTryska]

88. I don't think they want an apology at all....

i half wonder whether they even expect him to apologize.

I think they want to take it and sue it to smear, which is just what they're doing.


but as soon as one offers an apology, you lose the right to keep bitching. anymore whining after that, and you look like a sore loser. i'd liek that ball to be int he cheney's court. find something else to bitch about.

[sangh0]

89. It worked with Clinton, right?

but as soon as one offers an apology, you lose the right to keep bitching

[liberalnurse]

100. You are wrong.......

It opens the door and gives the repugs much unearned power.


Your reasoning is a true disappointment.

[Snivi Yllom]

69. too late for an apology

the Kerry campaign has decided to stick with its guns on this

[SeanQ]

97. I agree

I'm sorry you found my mentioning your daughter's sexual preference upsetting. That she is a lesbian is a well known fact, and she has campaigned on that point on behalf of her father, so I certainly didn't expect anyone to take offense. So, Mrs. Cheney, please accept my appology for upsetting you, that certainly was not my intention.

Or something on those lines?

[MsTryska]

104. yes!!! yes yes yes!!!!

exactly...something along those lines.


No apology for the comment itself, or reality for that matter, but for the hurt feelings.

[WI_DEM]

2. Nothing, this will blow over

as it is he did release a statement yesterday.

[MsTryska]

6. It hasn't blown over.

If he apologizes publicly, re-iterating yesterdays statement, it will. he basically cuts the legs off. And the way the apology is worded, throws it right back on the cheneys.

[ClassWarrior]

10. I saw very little on Mary Cheney last night...

...but lots about Bill O'Leilly's vibrator. Nothing JK can say will stop the whoring at this point. It's the Bush* Crime Family's Hail Mary play, and if this one goes away, they'll find another. We need to appreciate the fact that this was all JK gave them to work with - and show that appreciation BY GETTING OUT AND KNOCKING ON OUR NEIGHBORS' DOORS WITH A FISTFUL OF CAMPAIGN MATERIALS.

Handwringing here won't do a damn thing. But we can win this thing on the doorsteps of America. Shut off the computer and volunteer, MsTryska.

24.

[MsTryska]

16. Wish i could, but a girl's gotta eat. :-) nt.

nt

[ClassWarrior]

19. So you earn your living by posting disruptive threads on DU?

Where do you find the time to post here if you're too busy working to campaign?

24.

[MsTryska]

20. Oh jesus.

now this is a disruptive thread? dude i'm jsut trying to help from a PR prospective. don't freaking brownshirt me.

[ClassWarrior]

22. You didn't answer the question about volunteering.

24.

[MsTryska]

27. That's what i do when i'm not at work.

you really have no business asking about my free time, or questioning my commitment, but understand that i have been living, eating and sleeping this campaign for a while now. I was one of Kerry's early supporters, when everyone else was gaga over dean, and he was the dark horse. I've gotten many people who have NEVER voted in their lives, fired up and excited about voting for the first time. I hold debate parties, open houses, and screenings in my home. I give money that truth be told i really can't afford, to ensure we have a new president.


how dare you question my "commitment to the cause" just because you don't like what i may be saying?

how does this make you any different from the "either with us or against us" president we are all working to get rid of? you should be ashamed of yourself.

[ClassWarrior]

32. If you go back and read my posts, you'll see all I was saying...

...was our time is better spent campaigning than trying to dream up what JK should do to try and outsmart those vicious vampires.

It's like when so many people here were getting ulcers over Kerry's response - or lack thereof - to the Smearboat Vermin. And others (read imps) were having a field day stirring the hornet's nest.

In the end it all worked out just fine. We need to trust JK and Co. to do their job, and get about doing OUR job. They really are the A-Team.

24.

[liberalnurse]

28. If you think your feedback is proactive for the campaign....

Well then, may I strongly suggest you DON"T give up your day job.

You are a miserable failure with this attempt.

[MsTryska]

44. Somehow your in a wonderful place to judge, right?

thanks for the insults.

[sangh0]

80. No, YOU are the only one who can have an opinion

and this whole affair is "a powerful emotional tool"

God forbid anyone else render an opinion on this.

[liberalnurse]

25. Yes it has blown over......

It's not getting any attention.....The media see's this is a weak option that they use to fill air time. The only reason it got a 2nd day was that the Cheney's need to whine on TV for a while. It sure made them look really bad too!

[MsTryska]

30. I am fresh off watching this mornings news....

CBS, NBC, and CNN were all discussing this. Surprisingly Fox wasn't. altho blondie on fox and friends was chockful of "righteous" indignation, yesterday. My coworkers are talking aobut it, today. they didn't yesterday. I don't want to see this snowball because it's bullshit.


Now they might have decided to stop talking about in this last hour, but at 6am this morning, my roommate and i were flipping channels to see who was saying what.

[LynnTheDem]

4. What John should do...

BUSH FORGOT HIS OWN WORDS ABOUT NOT KNOWING OR CARING WHERE OBL IS; BUSH IS TOO SENILE TO PROTECT AMERICA!

[MsTryska]

7. Looks like a dodge, without addressing this issue first.

this is the one making headlines. this is what people are talking about at the watercoolers.

[July]

5. I think he could use the fact that it came up in the Edwards debate.

He didn't attack Mary Cheney, but used her as an example of a gay person -- an example that anyone watching the debates knows had already been raised, to no outrage from Dick Cheney.

[MsTryska]

9. Exactly.

I would cite all the various instances Mary has been brought up.

And maybe soemthing like, "And I admire the Cheneys support of their daughter, especially in the face of the rebuke from members of the Republican party - Alan Keyes, Tom Demint, and others...."

[ClassWarrior]

17. Subtletly isn't going to work.

Arguing the nuance of this will be conceding the playing field to the RW. A number of times in this campaign I've wondered why JK didn't address particular issues where he clearly holds the high ground. Now I realize that he refuses to get dragged down into the RW mudpit. If he's going to mud wrestle, it's going to be Dem mud.

Instead of gnashing our teeth about this, let's just shake our heads, then move on and talk to America about the real issues that relate to their lives - jobs, health care, war and peace, etc.

24.

[mdguss]

12. These threads should be locked:

There are people without jobs whose houses are being forclosed on; there are people being shot at in Iraq; we face dangers here at home because of the ineffective Bush administration. This is irrelevant. Posting post after post on this is doing Karl Rove's work...focus on what matters, not some petty fight. By the way, Dick Cheney should talk; he basically said John Kerry=terrorist attack. Talk about out of line and a cheap an taudry political stunt.

[MsTryska]

14. I agree with you on that.

that's why i'm saying, make the statement, and everyone is forced to let it drop and we really can focus on the real issues. this is a small issue to apologize for. then we can move on to why the president doesn't feel he's made any mistakes, and hwo we can all go back to community college so we can learnt the jobs of the 21st century.

[TheDonkey]

13. I think he should job on the "appology" and switch it

I'm not going to appologize amount brining up the fact that Mary Cheney and other Americans like her a discriminated daily.

But I'd like to see Bush and Cheneny appologize for using th econstiution as a wedge issue

for losing jobs
for eroding the environment
etc.

[Thrill]

18. NO WAY NO Apology NONE ZIP NONE ZERO

How the hell did he offend someone? Did Mary Cheney say she was offended? Maybe they shouldn't be ashamed of their daughter? Apologize my ass. The right wing does mean and hateful stuff to the Dems all the damn time and when you ask for an apology they tell you to kiss their ass. NO NO NO NO NO NO NO

We don't have to be wimps and apologize all the time. NO

[coreystone]

23. No Apology Necessary!.......

1. Cheney brought it up in the VP Debate.

2. Cheney's daughter is out of the closet.

3. Cheney's daughter is working on the campaign.

4. The "anti-gay" amendment proposal by the right wing Republicans is within the realm of "speakable" campaign issues.

5. Et cetera

[geek tragedy]

24. No apology, but expression of "regret" that they misunderstood his remarks

Then launch in to a blistering attack on Shrub.

[MsTryska]

31. I can accept that.

an expression of regret would work just fine. just some sort of "conciliatory" statement.

[sangh0]

26. Incredibly foolish

It's foolish to be even be talking about this issue when it's obvious that's what the RNC wants us to do. You don't think it's just a coincidence that every right-wing pundit on cable TV is bringing this up, do you?

Instead of hammering on bush* for lying about how he said he doesn't think about OBL, you want Kerry to apologize when he did nothing wrong. That's crazy

[MsTryska]

33. I KNOW this is what the RNC is trying to do.

that's precisely why i'm syaing, make the damn statement and shut them up so we can move on.

[sangh0]

35. Incredibly foolish

to think you can make the RNC STFU.

[MsTryska]

37. I'd much rather they go back to questioning his record

or calling him a taxachusetts liberal.

right now they're playing this like the man was "talking about someone's mama" (or daughter) in this case, and that does go below the belt. Even though that's not true at all.

I'd rather kill this one and get it back on the usual ground.

[sangh0]

40. Incredibly foolish

I'd rather kill this one and get it back on the usual ground

You keep talking as if you can control what the RNC says.

You can't.

[MsTryska]

47. No. I just know that no matter what party your with....

when someone extends you an apology you accept it and move on.


it's part of our national culture. it worked for Jerry Fallwell, it worked for Bill Clinton.

In the eyes of the populace. forget what the campaigns want or don't want - Kerry is jockeying for the people right now. not the politicos.

[sangh0]

48. Incredibly foolish

when someone extends you an apology you accept it and move on.

You're not very familiar with the RNC, are you?

it worked for Jerry Fallwell, it worked for Bill Clinton.

Really?? Liberals have forgiven Falwell, and repukes have forgiven Clinton?

In which universe?

Kerry is jockeying for the people right now. not the politicos.

Really? Kerry is pushing the lesbian angle?

In which universe?

[MsTryska]

52. Your missing my point entirely.

but mainly it's because you WANY to. so i'm not aruging it anymore.

[sangh0]

65. You are incredibly foolish

1) You think you can get the RNC to change the subject with an apology. It didnt work for Clinton

2) You think it's an important issue because REPUBLICANS are talking about it.

3) You think Kerry should apologize when he did NOTHING wrong.

I got your point.

[DefenseLawyer]

29. That might make you feel good

but it would make no sense. Number one he has nothing to apologize for and by doing so you validate Lynn "he's not a good man" Cheney. Number two you just keep a story alive that will be dead before the end of the day. Except among the desperate freepers out there, there is no backlash about this at all. Let them talk about it as long as they want, it's a wedge issue for them, but JK should just let it go.

[MsTryska]

36. You really think ti will be a dead issue

befor ehte end of the day? I'd like to believe you, but there was entirely too many minutes spent on it over a variety of channels this morning. even the NBC lady was asking why this had legs, while she was interviewing campaign people. I was sitting there thinking, it's because your reporting it, stupid!

[sangh0]

43. Yes

Turn off your cable! It's warping your sense of reality.

Most people do NOT watch cable news. More people watch the network news than cable, and even more people get their news from late-night comedy shows like Leno and Letterman.

Cut your cable and take a walk to the corner store and take a look at how NO ONE CARES about this issue.

I was sitting there thinking, it's because your reporting it, stupid!

It's also because people like you are talking about it. The news reported Cheney's anger. That's one story for one day. The story would die on the 2nd day because the media won't report, as news, "Cheney still mad". That's not news.

But "Democrats respond to Cheney's anger" is a story for Day 2.

[MsTryska]

50. Umm.....actually it was CBS, NBC

and CNN. Fox didn;t cover it when i watched, but we're talking about network news.

and it was a network news anchor.

and how can you tell me people aren't talking about, when in fact they are?

I walked into work listening to people talk about this morning. The republican people. i kept my mouth shut either way, except for the odd "but i thought she was a lesbian?" comment.

but right now the common right wing man (i live in a deep red state) is pissed that Kerry is talking aobut someone else's family member. that speaks right to people's pride. And I realize what's going on and that it's RNC spin, but they don't.

[sangh0]

55. Wrong - Fox, and EVERY cable new show pundit covered it

and you're helping them along.

and it was a network news anchor.

No one watches them

I walked into work listening to people talk about this morning. The republican people

Right, repukes are talking about it because they WANT people to talk about it. So why help them?

but right now the common right wing man (i live in a deep red state) is pissed that Kerry is talking aobut someone else's family member. that speaks right to people's pride. And I realize what's going on and that it's RNC spin, but they don't.

Do you really think you're going to do any good talking to "deep reds"? Do you really think they're going to vote Kerry because of you explain the truth to them?

They don't care about the truth. They only care about the spin.

When they talk about pride, ask them "Why was bush* so ashamed of his OBL statement that he had to lie and deny saying it?"

[MsTryska]

63. Look...this is my last statement to you....

the post above this one your said:

Most people do NOT watch cable news. More people watch the network news than cable, and even more people get their news from late-night comedy shows like Leno and Letterman.


So now when i tell you it's network news you tell me:

No one watches them

when you can make up your mind on who watches what, let me know.


Lastly - i can't help but talk to "deep reds", i live here.

[sangh0]

68. The majority get their news from Leno and Letterman

Lastly - i can't help but talk to "deep reds", i live here.

Which is why can't help but have a twisted view of what's going on.

[snippy]

34. He issued that statement yesterday. Bush wants the hate mongering

wedge issue though so the lying, hypocritical GOP will try to continue to create a controversy. What Kerry surrogates need to do is show the republican hypocrisy whenever the lapdog media brings this thing up.

In 2002 the GOP trumpeted Mary Cheney as an official republican party lesbian.

In 2002, Mary Cheney served on the advisory board of the Republican Unity Coalition, a gay-straight alliance formed within the Republican party to help increase tolerance within the party for gays and lesbians, and others.

http://www.gaylesbiantimes.com/?id=2431&issue=851

And doesn't she now work for the Bush Cheney 2004 campaign?

And before that didn't she work for the White House?

And before that didn't she work for the Bush Cheney 2000 campaign?

And before that didn't she work for Coors in a gay/lesbian liason position?

Mentioning her sexual orientation is not talking about her private life, it is talking about her professional life. Republicans, especially the Cheneys, are lying, hate mongering , hypocrites on this issue.

[MsTryska]

41. I agree with you.....

i wholeheartedly agree the attack dogs should go ahead and do the dirty work.

[Strawman]

39. Kerry should privately, not publicly, attempt to apologize

to the Cheney family so this story can move out of the heavy rotation in the news media where it really doesn't belong when there are only a couple weeks before a Presidential election. If the Repubs still want to bat around Mary Cheney like a political volleyball after that, well that's on their conscience.

If it's not possible to do anything like that privately right now, he should wait and do it later and just let this go away for now.

I'm sure they will tell him to go Cheney himself, but if Kerry sincerely meant no harm, then he can have a clear conscience. I'm sure Kerry regrets the way this has went down and feels bad for Mary Cheney being swept up in all this. He should express that privately if that's even possible.

[MsTryska]

53. Thank you for understanding at least what i'm getting at....

we may disagree on how it should be done and i personally would prefer more bang for the apology buck, but thank you. :-)

[in_cog_ni_to]

45. Do what repukes do.

Ignore it and it doesn't exist.

[ClassWarrior]

49. Bingo!

And hey in_cog! :hi:

24.

[in_cog_ni_to]

62. Hey, CW!

:hi:

[sangh0]

51. How many challenges did Cheney ignore in his debate?

Cheney is a hell of a lot smarter than many DUers. He knows that arguing about an issue makes the media pay attention to it.

[in_cog_ni_to]

67. How much has he discussed his SECRET

Energy Meetings? :shrug: Did they even happen? Just wondering.

[w4rma]

46. Apologizing for MENTIONING gays and lesbians will INSULT gays/lesbians.

Mary Cheney has been out for over a decade and, from what I understand, has been an activist for gay and lesbian issues for over a decade. You want Sen. Kerry for MENTIONING her? Wimpy.

[snippy]

56. She has held an official position as an offiicial GOP lesbian activist.

I posted about it above somewhere.

[MsTryska]

57. No. I want Sen. Kerry to apologize

or "show regret" that the Lynne and Dick Cheney found his comments offensive.

I would then, as worded in the apology above, reference Mary again as a lesbian who her Parents are ACCEPTING of AND SUPPORTIVE of.

it pretty much pulls the rug out, and forces the cheneys to either keep her conspicuously in the shadows, or bring her out front and center.

[ClassWarrior]

59. I want BUSH* to apologize...

...for the bigoted position he took on gays and lesbians in the debate.

24.

[MsTryska]

60. That man makes no mistakes...

except for for some appointments he may have made, remember?


If Kerry can acknowledge having made a mistake, no matter how trivial and small, he still winds up showing himself to be a bigger man than the shrub.

[ClassWarrior]

64. So because he'll never admit it, we shouldn't call him on it??

We shouldn't try to turn the spin, just lie down and take it while apologizing? Wow - your logic is stunning.

24.

[MsTryska]

77. What makes you think an apology is

lying down and taking anything?


y'all are too caught up in ego it seems. John's got enough substance, humility and self-confidence to not look like a wuss whilst still giving an apology.


Sometimes the ultimate victory comes through surrender.


But that concepts notan exact fit for what i'm saying.


America is comparing the 2 candidates right now.

We've got one that can't admit to making a mistake at all, despite all date to the contrary and one who, if he makes a "perceived mistake", does what's needed to set it to rights.


who do you wind up trusting more? the walker or the talker?

[ClassWarrior]

109. What makes me think an apology is...

...lying down and taking anything? Because that's EXACTLY the way the lying bastards will spin it. That REALLY gives them something to slam. Igore it. It's smoke blowing out of Big Dick Cheney*'s criminal ass.

24.

[Norquist Nemesis]

92. Kerry Camp needs to get Gephardt

or his daughter. I don't think Kerry needs to or should apologize. I DO think Gephardt can bring a sane, rational voice to this and balance it out. Yeah, it might be viewed as political, but who decided to turn to her husband when Kerry made the statement and say, "Don't worry. I've got this one" and shrieked political attack!?

Another politically recognized dad and/or mom with a known gay child needs to make a statement on this supporting Kerry and be the surrogate that diffuses it. That's a role I'd give to Gephardt all the way. He also has the added controversy of the recent Missouri constitutional vote. His take on this and what he says would be heard and considered.

[MsTryska]

98. Hmmm......

that would be a good way to sort this out too. either way, i feel it should be defused, because the repubs have a prime trash-talkign point her, that wiht the medias help they can juice for all it's worth. even if it is utter and total crap.


on a sidenote - did Lynne really do that? (turn to her husband, etc)

[Norquist Nemesis]

107. It wouldn't surprise me if she did

and it's just what I pictured when I saw her ranting after the debate. So, no, she didn't...at least not that I know of.

[GoldenOldie]

102. NO Apology.

Lynn Cheney is the one who labeled it "cheap and tawdry," thus giving it more newsprint than it deserved. Elizabeth Edward was right-on when she said that Lynn Cheney appears to be ashamed of her own daughter and is playing it out politically.

"Cheap and Tawdry" is what Lynn Cheney calls it, Kerry called it a natural condition. It should be discussed and debated George is talking ammendment to the Consitutuion.

[Arkana]

94. No frickin apologies.

If he does, he'll look like a Daschle clone--another Democrat with no spine. All it would do is fuel a fire over why Kerry made such an appropriate comment. It was not a mistake to bring it up in the debate--so do not admit it was a mistake. :grr:

[orpupilofnature57]

105. Explain that liberals don't deem,the word lesbian or a life of....

homosexuality as anti-social,and tight Assad republicans do,HENCE the contrast and his point.

[MsTryska]

113. That's an excellent point too.

I'm not sure what's going to wind up happening on Candy cruller tonight. I know she's gonna ask him about it tho.

[omnithrope]

106. He should do NOTHING.

nt

[ibegurpard]

108. He issued a statement yesterday that was very good, in my opinion

If he keeps being pressed about this, he should reiterate that statement.

[liberal N proud]

110. The only reason Lynne Cheney is rasing such a fucking strink is

because KKKarl Rove says, "If we keep pumping this to the media, they will make a big deal smearing Kerry"
We all need to write the editors and tell them, the election is about other issues and that Cheney's daughter was openly gay before Kerry mentioned it on TV.
I have already done so.

[MsTryska]

112. That's an excellent idea as well.

I think i'm gonna go draft that letter now.

[pelagius]

111. Mary Cheney herself has not expressed "outrage"...

...so this is a dead issue. Anyone who is keeping it alive at this point has a transparent agenda.

If Mary Cheney shares her deep hurt and pain about Kerry's statement, then I'll listen. But she hasn't and, even though she's a paid Bush campaign worker ($100K/yr), she won't.

She's a grown woman who can speak for herself. Dick and Lynne (and the whole echo chamber) can shut up.