So is John O'Neill completely discredited now?

[Stephanie]

Did that Nightline do him in? Is there any point in Sinclair going ahead with their crazy smear infomercial at this point?

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

1. What was on Nightline? I didn't hear about this

[Stephanie]

10. Nightline sent a crew to Vietnam

It was fascinating. They sent a reporter to Vietnam. They rode a boat up the river exactly where Kerry's swift boat went. They saw the place where the fight took place. They interviewed the villagers. The villagers remember the event very well. They described the fight. They knew the name of the man Kerry shot. They said there were about 20 Viet Cong firing shots at the swiftboats. That everything happened exactly the way Kerry says it happened.

Then they brought O'Neill on. He's clearly insane. He refused to address what he had just seen. He kept waving around Kerry's book and a Boston Globe book and quoting one sentence from each out of context saying that the man Kerry shot was young, and something about a loin cloth? It was bizarre. It was classic television with Koppel repeatedly asking that he put the books down and just answer a few questions and O'Neill just acting like a tinfoil lunatic who just escaped from a halfway house.

[beaconess]

16. My favorite part was O'Neill holding up an open book to the camera and

pointing at a paragraph he was screaming about - and Ted Koppel telling him, as if speaking to a hysterical child, "Mr. O'Neill, please put the book down. No one can read it from here."

[underpants]

35. Newsflash!!! O'Neill wasn't there!!!!!!!!!

He didn't get to the unit until two months after Kerry was gone. He can't say that and he has been discredited long ago, by Kerry himself.

[The Wielding Truth]

43. I guess this answers your question. He still needs exposed.

[Catfight]

2. Can someone surmise the O'Neill story? I don't have time to watch

the whole video segment.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

4. Read this thread..it's almost as good as watching

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1075076

[Catfight]

8. Good stuff, thanks.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

3. We can only hope

[Wickerman]

5. Wow, was he insane or what?

He had nothing, but preceeded to harp on endlessly about that nothing. I thought Ted showed fantastic restraint by not reaching thru the video feed and strangling him.

[Octafish]

18. Utter and total nutjob.

John Kerry must've ruined his life.

The reality is, of course, Richard M. Nixon ruined his life.

[Stephanie]

23. What is his story anyway

I don't know anything about him except he was the guy (was he an Ivy League lawyer too?) who debated Kerry on Dick Cavett.

[Octafish]

26. Nixon wanted someone to counter young John Kerry -- no bull.

The Nixon White House feared Kerry like no other anti-war protester. So, Charles Colson came up with John O'Neill, also a Navy vet, to counter him. After meeting with Tricky Dick, O'Neill said: "He's the greatest man I've ever met." What a fine judge of character. In payment, O'Neill eventually would become a law clerk for that fine BFEE turd and drug addict, William Rehnquist.

Boston Globe profile details:

http://www.boston.com/globe/nation/packages/kerry/061703.shtml

White House tape transcripts of conversations:

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4534613/

[Stephanie]

30. But what has he done since then?

Does the guy have a job? Or did he just crawl out of his rabbit hole to attack Kerry once more? Where did Karl dig him up? Did Tricky Dick turn over all his phone books to Karl?

[Octafish]

41. More evidence of VRWC. They ALL run in the same circles.

From the very important resource, Media Matters, the people pushing O'Neil are many of the VRWC's usual mouthpieces:

Who is John O'Neill?

CNN's Blitzer failed to probe partisan ties of Kerry critic

EXCERPT...

The Heritage Foundation's website Townhall.com became a vehicle for bringing O'Neill back to the current media spotlight. On April 2, Townhall.com published a syndicated column by Mona Charen -- and on April 8, David Horowitz's FrontPage Magazine published a timeline by Winter Solider.com -- both making brief mention of a 1971 debate between Kerry and O'Neill on The Dick Cavett Show in which O'Neill accused Kerry of lying about the activities and conduct of American military forces in Vietnam.

On April 20, O'Neill made his cable debut on CNN's Wolf Blitzer Reports. During the interview, O'Neill said that John Kerry told "damaging lies" about war crimes in Vietnam. He said, "We know the truth and we know that is unfit to be the commander in chief." O'Neill continued, "I think you'll find people are very, very angry at John Kerry. They remember his career in Vietnam as a short, controversial one. And they believe only Hollywood could turn this guy into a war hero. I saw some war heroes, Wolf. John Kerry is not a war hero. He couldn't tie the shoes of some of the people in Coastal Division 11."

Though Blitzer acknowledged that questions were likely to be raised about whether O'Neill was speaking out against Kerry for political reasons, Blitzer conceded that he had not looked into O'Neill's partisan affiliations. "Maybe you're a Republican -- I have no idea -- or the Bush people are encouraging you," Blitzer said.

Houston lawyer John O'Neill is a Republican -- as the Houston Chronicle noted the day after O'Neill's interview with Blitzer. According to the paper, O'Neill voted in the 1998 Republican state primary. But O'Neill's ties to the Republican Party extend far beyond party affiliation. During the CNN interview, Blitzer reported that former President Richard Nixon had urged O'Neill to publicly counter Kerry on The Dick Cavett Show, but there is more to the story. O'Neill was a creation of the Nixon administration, as Joe Klein detailed in the January 5 issue of The New Yorker. Former Nixon special counsel Chuck Colson told Klein that Kerry was an "articulate" and "credible leader" of those veterans calling for an end to the Vietnam War and therefore "an immediate target of the Nixon Administration." As such, the Nixon administration found it necessary to "create a counterfoil" to Kerry. Colson recounted, "We found a vet named John O'Neill and formed a group called Vietnam Veterans for a Just Peace. We had O'Neill meet the President, and we did everything we could do to boost his group." Articles from the April 21 Houston Chronicle and the June 17, 2003, Boston Globe confirm close ties between O'Neill and the Nixon administration.

Beyond his role in the Nixon administration's strategy to undermine Kerry in the 1970s, O'Neill is also connected to Supreme Court Justice William Rehnquist (a Nixon appointee) and to former President George H.W. Bush, according to Houston Chronicle articles from March 31 and April 21. In the late 1970s, O'Neill clerked for Rehnquist; in 1990, according to an October 7, 1991, report by Texas Lawyer, the former President Bush considered O'Neill for a federal judgeship vacancy.

CONTINUED...

http://mediamatters.org/items/200405040004

BTW: Just what IS Blitzer's job if he has "no idea" if a guy smearing the Democratic nominee for President is a repug or not? Oops. I forgot, Wolf's the turd who reported Wellstone's plane went down because of icing, even while the reporter on the scene was saying weather wasn't a factor.

Disinfopedia has collected an excellent bibliography on these Swift Boat Liar turds of the BFEE:

http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=Swift_Boat_Veterans_for_Truth/Articles&printable=yes

[JPace]

39. He was desperate!

trying to keep the sheeple from considering the facts.

[still_one]

6. no

and after the sinclair bullshit comes out the scum bag will even get more support

[Minimus]

7. Whadda ya mean- he kept showing Ted the BOOKS!

that is all the proof he needs!

LOL - I loved it when Ted said please put down the books Mr. O'Neill.

[Virginian]

11. What books were they?

[Minimus]

13. His book , a biography about JK, and Tour of Duty

[gavodotcom]

14. Kerry's autobiography and a bio from the Globe.

Mr. O'Neill then discredited his own story quoting them, although he seemed quite oblivious to it.

In Kerry's book, Kerry recounts that he was glad there was only one guy with a rocket launcher and not 6 or 10 guys(the man Kerry ended up killing when he beached his boat and ran the guy down, and the reason for his medal).

Mr. O'Neill harped upon this subject, saying there was only one VC in the fight. There were, in fact, 20, but only one had a rocket launcher. The rest were armed with small arms.

It was ridiculous to the point of being hilarious to watch him humiliate himself.

[Tesibria]

9. No -- "cost" of the polarization

He has already been discredited -- for quite some time -- by some in the media (esp. Chris Matthews). That seems to have no impact on those who WANT to believe him.

Per the SBV forums last night, his supporters saw a huge "victory" last night. They are blogging away crowing at how HE discredited KOPPEL -- not the other way around.

So -- no. Those open to the facts had already decided he was full of it. Those who choose to believe him -- continue to do so DESPITE the facts.

Interesting - sad - state of affairs.

It's a rainy dreary day here in Chi-Town.

:(

[CatWoman]

12. that's just plain fucking stupid

Per the SBV forums last night, his supporters saw a huge "victory" last night. They are blogging away crowing at how HE discredited KOPPEL -- not the other way around.

So, you find delusion "credible"?

[Tesibria]

15. To be clear

No. I do not. Their forum is full of vitriol and trash and -- call it delusional or any other sick term, and I'll probably agree.

However, I was responding to the initial question -- is O'Neill completely discredited -- and to his supporters, he is not. They (delusionally) think he "won."

And like MANY "conspiracy theorist"-style writings, they write stuff that SOUNDS (assuming you don't know the facts) very "convincing" - to an undecided, uneducated person who does nothing more than watch Faux News and read the Washington Times.

I was HOPING that the result would be better. Of course, we don't know how the nonsupporters responded -- that will tell only in time -- but -- I'm not optimistic.

[CatWoman]

19. I'm sorry -- I was talking to the bloggers/swifties, not you

I should have made the distinction more clear.

[gavodotcom]

17. That sounded a lot more venomous than you intended, I hope.

[CatWoman]

20. I don't need a net nanny

[Name removed]

21. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Stephanie]

22. pot kettle

.

[gavodotcom]

24. spoon fork.

[CatWoman]

25. ass

hole...........

[gavodotcom]

28. Fuck...Off...

If you wouldn't have been so ambiguous in your post, I wouldn't have said anything. My comment was a polite suggestion that you more fully direct your comment towards the SBV.

It sounded like you were insulting a fellow DU'er, which apparently you feel you have the right to do when you leave comments that could give false impressions as to whom they are directed.

But, of course, this is all typed in vain, because it's more fun for you to be shitty than courteous to people.

And yes, I'm obviously an asshole because you fucked up as to who you wanted to direct your comment. Have fun sowing the seeds of unity.

[CatWoman]

37. Look whoever the fuck you are

I clarified myself to the poster.

I admittedly was quick on the keyboard and didn't make myself clear. I was responding to the comments, not to the poster.

Who the fuck are you?????

This was between me and the poster.

Again, who the fuck are you????

Do you dress up as sheriff, and troll internet boards as the self-declared Gunslinger of Justice?

You are the one who needs to do less fucking off, and more shutting up.

[Radical Activist]

27. He was discredited a long time ago

but he keeps getting covered and cited anyway as though he's not a complete liar. It doesn't matter if he has credibility. Its too good for the media to pass up.

[neomonkey]

32. Precisely

Just because here, we know he's psycho, a nut, a loon, entirely discredited - but how does it play out in the strange bizarro world of true Bush believers. They saw the same interview we did and saw something entirely different.

SBVT will continue to dog John Kerry long after he is elected president :) All we can do is continue to try our best to expose John O'Neil for the scumb bucket liar he is.

[yellowcanine]

29. What do you mean NOW? Kerry smacked him dowi in 1972 on the

Dick Cavett Show and showed him up for the Nixon stooge he was.

[pdx_prog]

31. he sure looked like an ass....

I hope people take notice!

[giant_robot]

33. I think that's the important point

Those who want to believe Kerry lied about his record will believe it despite the facts, but those who are unsure about whether or not he lied will see an unreasonable lunatic sticking books in the camera. The kool-aid drinkers won't change their minds, but O'Neill certainly didn't help himself with any undecideds out there.

[PurityOfEssence]

34. He was a rabid, insane bundle of babbling hatred

Waving books around like some demented infomercial was just mind-boggling. All he could do was rave over and over about how anything said from within Vietnam was beyond biased because it was a closed society. It was brutally apparent that he had a personal vendetta that transcended mere facts; it was manic zealotry of an obviously despicable person.

He didn't make a lick of sense, and even though Koppel did a very good job, he let the big point slip by. O'Neill said over and over that Kerry himself said there was "only one" person there, not an organized firefight with other people shooting. That's absolutely false; Kerry said that there was one rocket launcher, not one armed and fighting insurgent. It was desperate, weasely and painful to watch.

[janx]

36. Other media need to pick up on this. They've sure given

that nut all of the air time up until now.

[Stephanie]

38. Has anyone covered it?

I haven't been able to read much or view anything today. Has the Nightline investigation been picked up at all? The fact that they went to Vietnam and talked to eye witnesses was just awesome. And what a patently obvious thing to do. And pure racism that it hasn't been done up til now.

[shivaji]

40. I will believe the Viet-Cong any day over John O'Neill and other

swift boat veteran liers.

[wishlist]

42. Even ABC news though hasn't mentioned the findings of Nightline

This Nightline segment exposing the Swiftliars and supporting Kerry has gotten absolutely no mileage, not even on ABC news yesterday, and I saw nothing about it on any of the evening political shows, probably because Ted Koppel tried to present the findings objectively leaving it up to to viewers to reach their own conclusions. His approach required attention and concentration on the part of viewers.

Obviously he was trying to avoid being accused of having a pro-Kerry bias so he was not as clear as he could have been in explaining that the findings bolster Kerry and discredit the John O'Neill and the Swiftliars. His approach protected the show from being slammed and compared to CBS's memogate.

I saw it on a Sinclair Broadcasting station but so far they have not made any mention of the segment. They probably didn't want to attract attention to it since the Nightline findings contradict the anti-Kerry editorials Sinclair has aired that used the Swiftliars allegations to trash Kerry's character and heroism. I plan to write a letter to the editor about how Sinclair repeatedly ran 9 different anti-Kerry editorials during the daytime hours accusing Kerry of lying and embellishing his military record and not deserving the medals, but the findings of the Nightline show were only conveyed to a small number of viewers at midnight!

[BootinUp]

44. Yes, but what difference does that make?

Maybe MSNBC Hardball can add him to their panel now.