Anybody catch the campaign advisors on Hardball?

[unfrigginreal]

Tweety had spokesman for Dean, Kerry, Gephardt and Clark on his program. Chris Lehane made the appearance for Clark and you Clark supporters would do well to ask that he not be the front man going forward, the guy just oozes sleaze.

One interesting tidbit for Dean supporters, Lehane was pushing the Canadian tapes that had Dean discussing the Iowa caucuses. Tweety asked him why he was pushing them and Lehane in his nails across a chalkboard whine feigned that he just found them so interesting, coming across as a complete phony. Dean's spokesman Steve McMahon said it was because the tapes were put out by them(Clark campaign).

[KittyWampus]

1. Agreed On Lehane. Great Behind Scenes

but not desirable on camera...

[DancingBear]

9. Same

I really didn't care for any of them, save Gephardt's guy. The rest looked like, well, what politcal ops look like. Bleeech.

[the populist]

2. I agree 100%!!!

You put the nail on the coffin, friend.

Lehane was unappealing and phony, to say the least. I think Geppie's speaker did a great job.

[bearfartinthewoods]

20. ditto

[rumguy]

3. I like Clark but Lehane sounds like a creep

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

4. Maybe Lehane can do as much for Clark as he did for Kerry.

[slinkerwink]

6. I'd hope so.

[flpoljunkie]

38. Wasn't that Jim Jordan that quit Kerry campaign, not Chris Lehane?

I don't believe that Chris Lehane ever worked for the Kerry campaign.

[slinkerwink]

5. the tapes were put out by the Clark campaign?

So much for taking the high road and not trying to influence a state in which they aren't even participating!

[maddezmom]

7. the tapes were put out by the Clark campaign?

thought they were put out my msnbc?

[slinkerwink]

10. tapes can be handed out to msnbc by a rival campaign

[maddezmom]

11. sure they can

but is the Dean campaign sure they were handed out by Clarks? Just a question, I don't know the answer.

[Eloriel]

27. There is almost no such thing as investigative reporting anymore

They're primarily stenographers. They won't even fact check these days.

OF COURSE those tapes were pushed by one of the campaigns. I knew that immediately. Do you really imagine any bright, curious reporter somewhere dug around to find out that Dean had appeared on Canadian television a bunch of times, and thought to ask someone about whether there were any tapes? No way.

I'm glad to know which campaign.

Eloriel

[BootinUp]

8. We all see what we want to

Lets be honest, I loved Lehane and hated the other three. This is the closest to war you can get without physical violence, thats the way it is.

Of course Dean and his staffers never attack the others and call them republicans or any such nonsense. /sarcasm

[Duder]

12. I remember someone saying when he was hired...

"It will be interesting to watch if we start seeing the hallmarks of a Lehane campaign, a candidate pretending to take the high road, while proxies run a whisper/slime campaign."

He has a lot of media contacts (such as WP) to spread his slime.
Clark supporters are either naive or delusional if they think their campaign is above the fray with this guy.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

13. Lehane Is One Mid-Level Operative, Joe Trippi Mangages Dean's Campaign

And Trippi is three times the scumbag that Lehane is. Just look at how he engineered a mass fraud/theft on Alan Cranston in 1983:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=85218

DTH

[Name removed]

16. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

18. Ooh, Name Calling, Very Good Rebuttal

I'm sorry your chosen candidate's manager of his ENTIRE CAMPAIGN is such a morally bankrupt thief.

Since it's so impossible to defend Trippi's past actions, I can understand why some might choose to lash out at other candidates instead. That's what Dean does best, after all: he can't defend himself, so he attacks everyone else.

Clark has taken the high road consistently, I'm sorry if that disappoints you.

DTH

[Duder]

22. I thought the Trippi story was funny

Here's a blog link about your guy from October -

http://www.theculturalelite.com/archives/001194.html

Sorry to burst your bubble.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

24. Ooh, a BLOG Post!

Wow, well you've sure got me there! Obviously, that blogger's rank speculation is as powerful as Trippi's own admissions in TNR.

DTH

[Duder]

28. Yup, kind of prophetic eh?

"It will be interesting to watch if we start seeing the hallmarks of a Lehane campaign,
a candidate pretending to take the high road, while proxies run a whisper/slime campaign."

[DoveTurnedHawk]

31. Prophetic, Except for That Part About Slime

You look in the papers, the only campaign being accused of slime by halfway credible sources is Dean's.

DTH

[SadEagle]

32. DTH, this is potentially not true.

There were posts here that the latest TNR published a letter debunking their own story. I can not confirm this, but you may want to not post this as gospel

[MIMStigator]

14. The Clark campaign should apologize for Dean's comments on those tapes!!!!

Did they leak those tapes? Why did they take the low road and put out tapes of Dean's own comments?

[BootinUp]

15. Stop instigating would ya!

No your doing a good job keep it up!


:toast:

[edzontar]

17. Tweety strongly suggested in remarks to Lehane that the Clark campaign

Passed the "Dean Tapes" to NBC.

Lehane praised the "brilliant reporting" of ueber-mediawhore Lisa Myers (who was responsible for the "Clinton 'rape' story") in a manner that was so smarmy as to be difficult to believe.


Meanwhile, some Clark supporters are feeling VERY excited about Matthews' embrace of their candidate tonight, on this forum here...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=108252

Never thought I'd see anything like this on DU.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

19. We'll Take Positive Media Coverage Where We Can Get It

So would you, but then your candidate is so damn unlikeable that the media will probably Gore him as bad as Gore.

Clark, OTOH, will be able to weather the whore media much better than any other Dem. It's one of his strengths.

DTH

[edzontar]

23. You may have your Tweety, sir...if you think that is "postive"

I know some people that will hurt you with, however.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

25. I Know Some People Who Believe in MIHOP

I'm not really interested in attracting those people's votes.

DTH

[edzontar]

29. I don't even know what that is..and I rather like Clark, or used to...

Until SOME (not all) of his so-called supporters turned DU into a...well, let's just say a very different place.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

30. Well

If you liked Clark before and can't separate mental masturbation on DU by Clark supporters from the actual Clark campaign, then so be it. I disagree with that thought process, and IMO it's not very reasonable, but obviously YMMV.

DTH

[edzontar]

35. Yeah, but it is sort-of inevitable....

Especially after the all the freepers who have come here in Clark supporters' clothing..I think there is a REASON they pick this disguise, since by far the worst divisive threads lately have come from self-identified supporters of Clark.

That said, you are, of course, right. in general..but you must realize you are not helping your argument by attacking and insulting my candiate.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

37. Here's the Thing, Ed

First, I'm glad we've been able to have this discussion. It actually gives me some small hope.

Second...here's the thing. What am I supposed to do if I honestly despise Howard Dean? Not for anything his supporters have done (although some of them have indeed annoyed the heck out of me, I must admit, but I'm objective enough to understand that that is undoubtedly mutual), but for what HE has done/said?

I sucked it up and stayed quiet for a long time. But after a while, I just couldn't do it any more, not only because I despise the guy, but also because I think he will lead us to electoral disaster.

I acknowledge I don't change many minds here on DU, no one ever seems to. But I've changed one or two, and more importantly I hone my craft for the real world, where I'm out there supporting Clark every day, and I am DAMN effective at turning people on to Clark and off of Dean, if I do say so myself. (My informal count is now into triple digits.)

So what's a loyal Democrat who nevertheless desperately doesn't want to see Dean win the nomination like me supposed to do?

DTH

[edzontar]

39. Well, I do not despise Clark, and am completely baffled by your attitude

Toward Dean...I mean, what has he ever said or done to merit being "despised?"

Agree or disagree, supprt another candidate--but "despise"?

What Dean has accomplsihed is considerable, and desrves the respect, at least, of everyone in our party.

On a darker note, I would note that in recent weeks, a number of freeper disruptors have been coming to DU, disguised as Clark supporters, the better to exploit the venom that has been directed at the present front-runner mostly from Clark's corner here.

What THEY have figured out, at least, is that this hysterical Dean-bashing is serving THEIR interests, not ours...and they are making it worse by the day.

By joining in the bashing, I would suggest that you are playing into the hands of the pukeboys who LOVE creatures like Tweety Matthews-who also wish nothing but ill for our party and for the progressive cause.

Can you at least undesratnd what i am trying to tell you here/

[DoveTurnedHawk]

40. Why Do I Despise Howard Dean? Let Me Count the Ways.

1) As many honest Dean supporters will admit, Dean has changed positions on many, many issues. Some of these changes were over the course of a decade, some were as recent as this campaign season. Given that he did not significantly change his governing style in his last few terms, Dean either had an incredibly fundamental change in ideology, or he is an insincere opportunist whose positions change with the political wind. Based on everything I've seen, it's the latter.

2) Dean has a sketchy record on issues of race, from the Abenaki tribe in Vermont (who endorsed Clark today), to his statements in opposition to affirmative action, to his stupid Confederate Flag comments, to his outrageous and inaccurate "I'm the only candidate to talk to white audiences about race." The guy has little to no experience on these issues, and he has a tin ear when it comes to race, and considering how issues involving race are among my top three in terms of importance, he truly makes my skin crawl.

3) Dean's strategy of attacking other loyal Democrats with such vigor (cockroaches, Bush-lite, etc. etc.) has been extremely divisive and manipulative, and is in my mind the mark of a demogogue looking to incite and play on the worst aspects of human nature, rather than the best aspects as a true leader does. And before you say it, I am not running for the Presidency; I am merely trying to expose the true colors of someone who is.

4) Dean is an incredible hypocrite, saying one thing and doing another. He says he's running a positive campaign, but he bashes all the other candidates without mercy (and while it's true some of them have also bashed him, that's not true of Clark). He talks about being an outsider when he's been a professional politician for over a decade, and has more insider endorsements than anyone. He says he'll support the nominee and demands the others say the same, even after he's played so damn coy with his "non-transferable" supporters and regularly incites them against the others.

5) Dean has lied so many times during this campaign, about Kucinich, about Clark, about his past statements. He lies just to stay on message, he lies as a reflexive response to being challenged. This dovetails into #1, above, and my strong feeling is that he is saying what people want to hear, rather than the truth. And that is just atrocious.

6) Dean speaks before he thinks. Some people find this "refreshing" but I find it scary. I don't want a President whose staff is astonished when he writes or rewrites policy on the fly. I don't want an American public always wondering when the next gaffe is coming out of another President's mouth. I don't want any totally unnecessary and avoidable international incidents.

7) Dean whines so badly that it just turns my stomach. His little cringefest to McAuliffe where he whined about other candidates' attacks when he was at least as bad if not worse was just pathetic. His little rant to his supporters recently was similarly weak.

8) Dean is just unlikeable. I don't like his arrogance, I don't like his presumption, I don't like his message, I don't like his personality, I don't like his background, I don't like his lack of electability, so many things, I just don't like. This guy has higher negatives than positives with the American public, and Bush hasn't even gotten started. America will not elect an unlikeable President.

I want you to think about what I'm saying for a moment. I am a die-hard Democrat, and I view Bush as the worst President ever. Yet somehow, Howard Dean has managed to make himself so unlikable, so negative in my eyes, that I'm seriously having to think about whether or not I would even vote for him in the general election, rather than staying home or voting third party.

These are my honest feelings. The fact I am so sincerely grappling with whether or not I could pull the lever for Dean quite frankly scares me, since I am strongly ABB, and if I'm feeling this way, imagine how so many moderate and independent voters are feeling right now, much less Republicans. In a recent poll, I think over 20% of Democrats indicated they would vote for Bush over Dean, while less than 5% of Republicans said they would vote for Dean over Bush. Add that to the high negatives Dean had among moderates and independents -- again, before Bush has spent one red cent -- and you truly have a recipe for electoral disaster.

Those are the reasons I despise Howard Dean. I'm sorry if it puts you off, you seem like a decent sort, and I actually like quite a few Dean supporters here and in real life.

I just cannot stand Howard Dean.

DTH

[Eloriel]

33. You don't want MIHOP voters' votes?

Really? How about LIHOP voters?

Even with MIHOP, you're talking about quite a few votes -- enough to swing a close election, that's for sure.

I'd be careful what you wish for.

I'd also do a little deeper digging on the issue if I were you.

Eloriel

[DoveTurnedHawk]

34. I'm Not Interested in Going Out of My Way to Attract Them, Certainly

Because doing so would require alienating far more people who are on the reasonable side of the spectrum.

DTH

[BootinUp]

21. That is BS, lets look at the transcript, it was Kerrys guy I think.

[edzontar]

26. I think it was Lehane...but the transcript ain't out yet..we shall see...

In any event, Lehane and Tweety are not the best public advocates you could have..they are way below the level that Clark has set for himself, I think...

[Clark Can WIN]

36. Yes I did....................... they looked like

The Brady Bunch up there.