Lieberman: The Next Zell Miller?

[siliconefreak]

http://nypost.com/news/nationalnews/30444.htm

DEM LIEBERMAN BOOSTS PREZ ON ISRAEL - AND HAS 'DOUBT' FOR KERRY

October 16, 2004 -- * Democratic Sen. Joe Lieberman has raised eyebrows by telling Florida voters that President Bush has a strong pro-Israel record and John Kerry needs to do more to eliminate "doubts" about his support for Israel.
"We are dealing with a president who's had a record of strong, consistent support for Israel. You can't say otherwise. And I think John Kerry, to reassure people, has to himself be explicit" about Israel rather than rely on surrogates, the Connecticut senator said in surprising remarks near Delray Beach.

Lieberman, an Orthodox Jew who was the 2000 Democratic vice presidential nominee, said he's urged that Kerry speak out more on Israel because "only John Kerry can eliminate those doubts," the Palm Beach Post reported.

[jpgray]

1. Ack. Just what we fucking need

I'm already disappointed with Kerry's views on Israel--how much more dismissive of one side of this conflict does he have to be to satisfy Joe?

[undercover_brother]

3. Can't he work with Kerry AFTER Nov 3rd? We need solidarity right now.

[ladybugg33]

61. No, Joe was the FIRST Zell Miller

You can say what you want but I think Joe is the reason we lost. A true Dem knew deep down that the racist condition of this country would kill the Gore/Lieberman ticket in the south. It wasn't just the gun issue but that is what the pundits wanted us to believe. Politics is nasty.

[Submariner]

2. Joe is doing some major butt kissing

to stop plans to shut down and close the Groton and New London, CT sub base next year. With his attitude, no wonder Gore was dragging behind where he should have been. Goodbye Joe.

[cavanaghjam]

4. Lieberman is a stooge

of the insurance companies and accounting firms. GOP loves to criticize the "global test" suggestion, but think nothing of an "Israel test". Anyone notice how, as occupiers, we are resembling Israel in our actions, e.g. destroying neighborhoods from the air with disregard to civilian casualties?

[wishlist]

5. Lieberman was awful on Imus this week too- even defending Halliburton

Lieberman did not help Kerry much when he was on Imus show a couple of days ago. What I would call damning with faint praise or maybe I should say damning with no praise. Only praise I heard from Lieberman was where he said he almost hated to defend Halliburton but that he had seen the good things they are doing when he went to Iraq. Give me a break, why did he have to say that??? Imus didn't bring it up. And he didn't bother mention all of the investigations and war profiteering going on by Halliburton even though lots of Americans have no idea of the extent of Cheneyed up stuff involving Halliburton.

[Cha]

7. We all know..most anyway..what lieman is...

This is just more nails in his damn political coffin.

[shivaji]

49. Lieberman has a safe senate seat....he don't give a damn

[DemFromMem]

6. Misleading journalism

The Palm Beach Post covered the same story. Lieberman was at a Kerry campaign event. He basically praised Bush for being pro-Israel (certainly more so than his dad) and also praised Kerry. He was basically criticizing Kerry for not doing a good enough job in getting that message out to supporters. The NY Post and NewsMax totally distorted his remarks. Lieberman is a friend. And he's doing a good job in getting out the elderly Jewish vote in South Florida. So cut him some slack. Read the Palm Beach Post story for a more accurate depiction of what he said. This is a GOP tactic of divide and conquer. Don't buy into it.

[The Wielding Truth]

27. Yea , so glad you straightened this out. Kerry' 05!!!!

[faithnotgreed]

41. thank you for clarifying. when reading story consider the source 1st nt

[louis c]

46. Lieberman Sucks.

F**k him. He's no Friend. He is the most quoted Dem on Fox news.

Did you ever see him and Hannity just about perform fellatio on each other during an interview?

F**k that piece of shit. I would take Lowell Weiker over that no good turn coat mother f**ker in a heart beat.

[jrthin]

8. Probably. He's a putz. n/t

[dave502d]

9. He was Zell before Zell was Zell.

[intheflow]

10. Lieberman has always sucked

He's by far the most Republican-esque Demoncrat in the Northeast.

[spooky3]

11. If his listeners are willing to vote for Bush strictly on the basis

of his record re: Israel, they are either (a) not Democrats or Dem leaning independents, which means Kerry was not getting their votes anyway, (b) in the top 1% of income earners and completely self-interested or (c) completely irrational, in that one cannot make a rational case that Bush is better for THIS country or for the self-interest of most citizens.

If this is Joe's way of putting pressure on Kerry to take actions he is doing neither his country nor his party nor his constituents and friends any favors.

I have never liked Joe Lieberman and I'm afraid I like him even less now.

[Warren DeMontague]

20. Bush's 'Record on Israel' consists of reading the "Left Behind" books.

edit: sorry, I meant 'listening to them on tape'.

[ikojo]

57. MANY religious Jews vote according to how they think a

candidate feels about Israel. Just yesterday a friend of mine and I got into a discussion about Kerry and Israel after services yesterday. This guy, a doctor, gave me the impression he is voting for * because he really believes that Republicans are better on the Israel issue than are Democrats. He even made the mistake of criticizing Carter (my friend's father knows Carter personally and she doesn't take it well when people criticize Carter). My friend is more into the Israel thing than am I so I let her do the debunking with the doctor. He saw nothing wrong with voting on that one issue alone.

This guy was also not happy that John Edwards was selected as the VP candidate because he's a trial lawyer.

After my friend got done debunking his misunderstandings about Democrats and Israel, I said, that while Israel is important, what is more important is that I live here and more working people will suffer under Bush's other policies and that is why he MUST go.

[AntiCoup2K4]

12. Shut the fuck up Joe!

It's understandable that you love Israel. It's unconscionabble how much you love Sharon :mad:

[Was_Immer]

13. Joe is why Gore lost

WTF was Gore thinking! I never liked him, never ever!

[JohnKleeb]

15. Gore wanted to distance himself from Clinton and those who supported him

during the impeachment proceedings. While Joe voted to aqquit Clinton, he was quite critical of him so Gore sought to distance himself. The ironic thing is, I know many of us feel like Kerry is a little too hawkish or centrist for our liking but Kerry was passed up by Clinton and Gore for in the case with Clinton being against the Gulf War and by Gore for being a staunch supporter of Clinton during the impeachment procedure, Kerry I believe was one of the democrats who voted on Senator Byrd's amendment to let the charges of Clinton off, it failed of course though.

[chaumont58]

48. I don't like ole Holy Joe, but Nader is responsible for chimpie....

being our present C plus Augustus. Remove Nader from the equation, and the shithead Lieberman would be running for a second term as VP.

[AlinPA]

14. The asshole just made a Bush* ad for TV. Stupid. He did not help

Gore at all in 2000. He was useless all over the country. Maybe he helped a little in FL, but no where else.

[dansolo]

47. He hurt more than helped in FL

I never understood this unbelievable assertion about Lieberman helping in FL. Any voter who would have cared about Lieberman being on the ticket would have been voting for Gore anyways. If anything, I suspect that there more than a few votes lost in FL because Gore had a jew on the ticket.

[cyr330]

16. Yeah, he's a nasty fuck

I never did like him, and he's already on the path of Zell Millerdom. I didn't like him as Gore's VP candidate, but I tolerated him, because the alternative was oh so ugly (and we see just HOW ugly at the present moment).

[Walt Starr]

17. Kerry and the Democrats should shut this asshole out completely

He should get NO help or chairmanships of committees if we take back the Senate. NONE!

[physioex]

18. HAH.....

Not if AIPAC has to say something about it...... If you want reform, start by taking away their power.

[Warren DeMontague]

19. Yeah. What a crock of shite.

All you need to do is look at the VP debate to see the level of informed engagement that Edwards displayed towards the peace process vs. the brief lip service Cheney gave, while trying to say that the reason terror attacks were down in Israel was because we invaded Iraq (I'm sure the Israelis were, like... "yeah.. right")

Bottom line? Bill Clinton was respected in the region because he put time and effort into the peace process. This president has vacillated between being totally useless and making the situation far worse.

The only country in that area Bushco. really gives a shit about is named Saudi Arabia.

I don't know what the fuck Lieberman is thinking.

[Borgnine]

21. Fuck Holy Joe.

I never liked him. I was a huge supporter of Gore (and still am), but Gore's biggest mistake was picking this DINO assmuncher as his VP.

[The Wielding Truth]

30. Try and read most of the other post s before you get all bent.

[Bombtrack]

22. You're going to trust the Post to bash Lieberman?

I'm just saying you should be skeptical of this kind of thing. Like it or not, there is a minor Lieberman type "wing" of the party that we need to keep to gain the majority. He isn't another Zell. He votes with the party against the GOP over 75 percent of the time.

[gordianot]

37. He is closer to being the John McCain of the Democratic Party.

Only not as personable as John McCain. Votes with Democrats but is a little too cozy with the opposition in the Bush Whitehouse. I do not think anyone really knows where his loyalties are given.

[Warren DeMontague]

23. Oh... By the way... that article is unmitigated bullshit.

Thanks for posting it.

"Kerry has sparked controversy by telling Arab-Americans that Israel's security fence is a barrier to peace — and then a few months later flip-flopped and told Jewish leaders in New York that it was legitimate self-defense. "

he "flip-flopped"? Is this a news story-- or an editorial?

Lots of people have taken different positions on that fence- because the fucking fence has taken different positions. If it's built fairly close to the green line, it's easier to argue that it's legitimate self defense. If it's being used as a pretext for a bald-faced land grab, as it looked like it was going to be during the time that Kerry made that statement, then it's a little harder to justify, isn't it?

[Mr_Spock]

24. Lieberman - mumbling weasel.

He is not worth even listening to at this point - he just doesn't get it - he's so selfish - he reminds me of Nader.

[DefenseLawyer]

26. But he's got

JOEmentum! What a tool.

[Forkboy]

25. Jomentum all the way baby!!!!

:silly:

[w4rma]

28. Post #6. Rupert Murdoch is distorting Sen. Lieberman's words (nt)

[confrontationclaws]

29. He's a fool...

and a tool. If the fundies complete the transformation of the republic into a fascist theocracy, he'll be the first to convert. Another zionist being played by the "christian" right to make sure the rapture comes off on schedule. I'm a Jew, and the guy makes me sick!

[Reciprocity]

31. Yes Lieberman is a traitor to the democratic party.

[gordianot]

32. I suspected he was some sort of plant in 2000.

[Eric J in MN]

33. Al Gore made a huge mistake in picking Lieberman (nt)

nt

[naufragus]

34. The Senator from Tel Aviv

Well we know which country Joe puts first.

When will we have people in government who will stand up to Israel?

[regnaD kciN]

35. I wouldn't even call him that...

..."The Senator from the Likud Party," perhaps.

But, as others have joked, with more than a grain of truth, the U.S. is more pro-Israel than Israel itself. In Tel Aviv, you'll get a lot more debate on which course Israel should take in relation to the Arab world in general and the Palestinians in particular, and a much greater willingness to be self-critical in that evaluation, than the knee-jerk reaction that U.S. pols think they need to show to capture the supposedly-monolithic "Jewish vote."

:eyes:

[EST]

36. Wow!

Thanks, everyone! I thought I was all alone in detesting that little POS!

[sherilocks]

38. The article came from the New York Post

Please don't take anything the New York Posts says as truth. This is a very biased, right wing, Murdoch newspaper.

I don't think we should be trashing Democrats until all the facts are in, unless it's Zell Miller.

[Senator Lamb]

39. Lieberman is a nice guy

you guys are being unreasonable. Joe Lieberman may be one of the more conservative members of our party but he is still a dem. He is pro-choice, he marched with MLK for civil rights, and more. although i believe the party should never be dominated by people like him, we should celebrate diversity within our party. after all, isnt that what liberals are about?

[gordianot]

40. He appears to me to be too close to the Bush Whitehouse.

This is not the season to be raising doubts about the Democratic ticket.

The Zell Miller incident leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

[Reciprocity]

45. That doesn't make up shit!!

[fujiyama]

53. I'll agree

that he did some good things in his youth, but his defense of the war, his dismissal of Richard Clarke's allegations, and his seeming apathy over the occurances at Abu Ghraib (even McCain was MUCH more forceful in condemning the abuses that went on there) make one question how supportive he actually is of Kerry and the party in general.

Lieberman is decent on domestic policies. He's voted pro choice, for gay rights, and against the tax cuts (though he's way too close to insurance and pharmacuetical companies). That's not good enough though. A few votes isn't what shows a person's character. He has let Bush off on way too many occurances, at least on fp. I think a relatively liberal northeast state like CT should have a more liberal senator. I would give money to anyone that challenges him in the senate primaries.

[PurityOfEssence]

42. Quisling Joe has many problems, but he's not an ASSHOLE like Miller

Joe is a fundamentalist (Orthodoxy , a moralist, a tool of the accounting industry and too concerned with his own image, but he IS a democrat. His voting record on the rights of the poor, union and worker rights, the environment and many others show that he has some morality, whereas Zell Miller is nothing but a narcissistic backwoods partisan.

Although he may split from the party on certain things, he won't on the subject of litmus issues like progressive taxation. Take this from someone who's been endlessly nasty on the subject of Lieberman: Miller's a scurrilous knave of legendary proportions.

[speedoo]

43. Lieberman is a sc**bag.

Losing the 2000 election was not enough for him, now he wants to take Kerry down too.

F***ing traitor.

[louis c]

44. I F**king hate Joe Lieberman

I will work against him in Conn, if he ever runs again, even if it is to support a Repuke.

He makes me sick, the asshole.

[IconoclastIlene]

50. I knew Gore would lose with Lieberman at his side...sorry I was

right on that one, though.

[liberal democrat]

51. Chill Out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm new to this board but am I bit taken aback by some of the comments. I'm a Jew and a staunch supporter of Israel. I see anti-semetic undertones in your postings with this "we see which country he supports first, etc."
THIS IS UN-CALLED FOR AND UN-DEMOCRATIC. I expect this from freepers not from DU'ers!!!
Lieberman should not be our scapegoat! Gore's campaign made a critical mistake by distancing himself from Clinton. A very stupid blunder!! Didn't he realize how popular Clinton was?? Instead of running as his own man, he should have sent Clinton everywhere. He definitely could have delievered AR as the very least... and just doing that would have given Gore the election. Don't blame Joe. He's a good guy who happens to be more conservative than most. If we want our party to survive, we have to be accpeting of differences. The Republicans had defections because of their one-sidedness. I expect better!

[sherilocks]

58. I second your post

In every way. The anti-semitic overtones disgusted me. I've seen deleted messages for other reasons on DU that were far less obnoxious than some of the posts I've seen here.

Welcome Hillary Obama 2012.

[spooky3]

59. Sorry, but you are confusing legitimate complaints reflecting

MANY observations about Lieberman during this campaign AND at other times, with anti-semitism. Please do not accuse people unfairly.

[sherilocks]

60. Some are legitimate observations.

Many are based on an article written by the New York Post, a scummy, muck-raking, Murdoch paper. Some are tinged with anti-semitism. I don't agree with Lieberman on many issues and that is fair game for discussion. Calling a Democratic Senator some of the names that are used here is reprehensible.

[IconoclastIlene]

63. As a Jew, I know this country is not ready for a Jew to lead

And thats the facts, whether I like it or not!!

And as a Jewess, I didn't like Lieberman, Jew or otherwise!!!!

[secular_warrior]

52. Lieberman can hurt us far worse than Zell ever could

Zell has no credibility with the national audience; he's just a crazy old man who appeals to die hard conservative/far rightists.

OTOH, Lieberman is very warm, charming and reasonable sounding. He's a prominent national figure. He's very pro-Israel. He's Jewish. Of all the 2000 Gore voting blocs, Jews are the most likely to not vote as strongly Democratic. The Jewish vote will be critical in Florida.

We must kiss Joe's ass now and do whatever he wants.

But after the election we must do what ever we can to get rid of this guy or severely limit his power. He is a huge danger to our party. Connecticut - though not as liberal as Vermont or Mass - is solid blue country and can do far better than this DINO.

ps. At one time I thought of Joe as a mainstream Dem who was conservative on a few issues. But over the last four years he has convinced me he is an ass kissing Republican-lite DINO. He truly disgusts me.

[fujiyama]

54. While the source is questionable

and while it may be taken out of context, it most likely is not. It fits in with a pattern of Lieberman's past statements regarding the war and the other candidates. Lieberman, in the last year or so has done the following:

-He basically dismissed and condemned Richard Clarke's allegations, claiming (not an exact quote) "There was no evidence the administration ignored terrorism".

-He dismissed the importance of Abu Ghraib. He used the standard RW line asking "what about the contractors murdered or those murdered on 9/11". John McCain was much more forceful in condemning the abuses, and he said "I disagree with my friend and colleauge Joe Lieberman" (I think this was on Dave Letterman).

-Instead of defending Kerry's vote against the 87 billion giveaway to Halliburton, he said he "had no idea why Kerry voted against it".

I wouldn't be surprised if I missed some more, but it's clear that he isn't being a help. There may be some bitterness that he was on the ticket last time and recieved virtually no support in the primaries.

Of course, his earlier pattern wasn't impressive either.

-He never questioned Cheney in the debates. He never called him on anything. That's why Edwards was so refreshing this year. Also, I'm not sure if Lieberman being sent to Florida was at Kerry's request or Lieberman's own initiative. Either way, I see no idea why Edwards or hell even Al Gore couldn't do just as well a job, if not better. Sure Clinton would be great, but he's recovering.

-He backtracked on the ILLEGALLY cast military ballots that had no post marks on them.

It's obvious he hasn't the least bit of a spine. It's pretty pathetic. He's decent on domestic affairs, but a few votes isn't what's important. It's about the big picture and from that we can say he's not much of a help for democratic/progressive causes and the Kerry campaign on the whole.

[LiberteToujours]

55. Joe can take his Joementum

and shove it. I still think he was a terrible choice of running mate for Gore.

[hinachan]

56. Joe Loserman is why we lost in 2000!

This brain-dead moron talks as slowly as he thinks, and I think the reason Gore picked him was so he wouldn't be upstaged by his VP choice. The Arab vote was lost when Gore picked this loser, Hollywood was aghast b/c Loserman was behind that stupid V-chip (which only reminded people of Tipper's PMRC all over again), and it's no surprise that the last election was as close as it was. Gore, Lieberman, Bush, and Cheney...was there ever an election with fewer charismatic characters?

In case you're still unclear, I loathe Joe Lieberman. :D

[WI_DEM]

62. Keep Lieberman the hell out of Florida and away from the trail

he is doing Kerry no favors.