New NYTimes Bush Article - the one with...

[sonicx]

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/17/magazine/17BUSH.html?oref=login&oref=login&oref=login

...the quote about putting his foot on Kerry's throat.

haven't read it yet and not sure if i will. i know enough about him. :eyes:

If you don't want to register, paste the URL into google and click the link from there.

[newscaster]

1. IT'S A SCARY ARTICLE

It shows Bush to be mentally deficient and dangerous not only to America but the rest of the world as well. His constant ignorance of details concerning complicated issues is instant proof that he is not qualified one bit to be President.
I agree with the contention that if he wins a second term, there will be an internal explosion within the GOP as those who see and understand his faults, rise up against those who dont.

[BillZBubb]

17. There will be no uprising in the GOP.

They are ALL good Germans and will do whatever der Fuhrer and Party want. They will consolidate their hold on the US. Make no mistake, fascism is on the march.

[Robeson]

2. You should read it...

...and I have posted about it on another area in the DU. In fact, you should encourage everyone to read it. Because no matter how bad you think they are, this article shows they're 10 times worse. This isn't a college debating team we're combating here. We are literally fighting a monster. We have to steel ourselves for this fight. Here's an excerpt from it, that will send chills down your spine. Read it!!

Excerpt:

"In the summer of 2002, after I had written an article in Esquire that the White House didn't like about Bush's former communications director, Karen Hughes, I had a meeting with a senior adviser to Bush. He expressed the White House's displeasure, and then he told me something that at the time I didn't fully comprehend -- but which I now believe gets to the very heart of the Bush presidency.

The aide said that guys like me were ''in what we call the reality-based community,'' which he defined as people who ''believe that solutions emerge from your judicious study of discernible reality.'' I nodded and murmured something about enlightenment principles and empiricism. He cut me off. ''That's not the way the world really works anymore,'' he continued. ''We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you're studying that reality -- judiciously, as you will -- we'll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that's how things will sort out. We're history's actors . . . and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do.''"

[Kool Kitty]

4. I read the article earlier today.

(I get the NYTimes delivered, and some of the Sunday paper's sections come on Saturday with the Saturday edition.) I spent most of an hour reading (or rather, shrieking) aloud to my husband a great deal of this article. The passage that you quoted was just about the scariest. People that vote for this man should have their heads examined. How much to you want to bet that not one talking head on the TeeVee even mentions this? They should make it mandatory reading for everyone of voting age in this country.

Frightening, truly frightening. :scared:

[sonicx]

5. ok, since many have recommended it...

i guess i probably will check it out. :)

[despairing optimist]

6. "We don't act on reality; we create our own reality"?

Really? If so, what are you acting on to begin with? This isn't logic; it's more self-serving, ideological claptrap.

How nearly half the population can believe such nonsense is actually scarier than the snailbrain who mouthed it.

[Robeson]

7. Ceejayay, but....

....the scary thing, is that they believe it. And they have all the organs of government at their disposal. All FOUR branches: Executive, Legislative, Judicial, and, yes, Media. Read the article. The author gives example upon example of how all these branches protasted themselves before this "President's" feet. Logic has nothing to do with it. Your not dealing with logical people. If you were, they wouldn't make statements like that. Your dealing with meglomania, pure and simple. Lets not take them lightly. We have nothing to combat them with but ourselves, and a few brave outspoken people. We, the people, have to be the vanguard of this movement. We have to check them in every instance that we can, and we have to hold others accountable, at every chance we can. Basically, we have to make their lives miserable, until we're heard. You heard what those in power in the White House said in their quote. You may think you're important. And I may think that you and I are important. But to those people, you and I don't even rate. We're nothing. We're just spectators in their play. And thats what they said.

[sandnsea]

10. Well, now wait a minute

It doesn't say all these branches prostated themselves before the President's feet. A few did, Bush either pushed the rest away or they walked away. They're desperately talking to America and trying to get people to see. Half the country is listening. The other half just believes. We've been talking about the blind faithful followers for a very long time now, Bush fulfills their vision, even though he doesn't come anywhere near doing anything they want him to do. If he did, they'd have no monsters that they needed him to kill. We've got some of the brightest minds in the world opposing Bush and they can't figure out how to make these fundies see, I wouldn't go putting so much blame on politicians in D.C. for not being able to do it either.

[Robeson]

11. Wait a minute what? You've missed my point, and....

...I don't quite understand yours. I'm not talking about whether or not we have "smart" and "intelligent" people in our party. At this point, thats irrelevant. Point is, the Republicans control all organs of government, such as, THEY have a President in office. THEY have a majority in the Senate and House, and THEY have a majority on the Supreme Court, and yes, THEY control the media. And no, in the past three years - and I don't think I'm alone in thinking this - our party leaders, have been less than steadfast against the rightwing onslaught. Remember 2002 mid-terms? We don't need to figure out how to "make these fundies see" as you put it. We have to be able to step it up to a war time footing - because thats what THEY do on a 24/7 basis - and figure out how to COMBAT these fundies, because you will never make them see. Do you think your going to change a fundies or Moonies mind, one who looks at you as if you are an insect, as stated by them, not me? You need to reread what the enemy camp said, not what you think I said. I'm in your camp. I'm on your side.

We really don't have time to argue amongst ourselves here. Reread the quotes above. They are playing God at this point. Meglomania is in season with these people. They have said it. I didn't. Its out in the open. We now see the enemy. If anything, this article was a Godsend. Now the question is, what are we going to do about it? If you have some good suggestions, I'm all ears. I don't have time to combat fellow Democrats, when I'm dealing with a group of people, who just told me, that I'm nothing but a plaything in their World, and that they are the actors, whom we, as spectators, are to just sit here, and watch them do with us, as they damn well please. Take the fight to the enemy, not me.

[sandnsea]

13. Uh, I was referring to the article

You said it said all those groups were laying prostrate at Bush's feet. It didn't say that. It stated clearly that Bush doesn't listen to anybody who questions him or disagrees with him. They simply don't exist in his Administration. Congress has been locked out of meetings, you know that. I refuse to have an argument with people who want to play pink tutu Dem games when they haven't figured out a way to make any changes themselves. Combat the fundies? What to you propose to do, shoot them?

I'm saying it does no good to include attacks on people who are trying to fight or ignoring the fights they're making because you wouldn't be able to justify your anti-Dem hatred if you did. You've got no solutions. Hundreds of the brightest minds in the world can't break through. Why continue beating up Dems in Congress when you see how insidious the problem really is? We won't get anywhere that way.

I have no solutions. I think we're all frustrated, tear our hair out frustrated. I wish I did have a solution. Combat the fundies just doesn't sound like a solution.

Actually, what we're doing on the ground right now is pretty much the solution I came up with a few months ago. Activist groups energizing their members and circling the Bushies, like putting out a wildfire. Keep it contained and let it burn until the rains come, votes on Nov 2. I hope it works.

[Robeson]

14. What? Huh?

Who's beating up on Dems in Congress? Your the one who brought that up and got defensive about it. Find in my oringinal quotes, which you initially took issue with, any mention of beating up on Dems in Congress.

As for my last post, I was simply point out that many didn't think they have been steadfast, again, after YOU brought the issue up. (AND AGAIN, after the Patriot Act votes, and the the votes to allow Bush to use force in Iraq, I don't think I'd be alone on that issue. Do you?) BUT, thats not the issue, and I never made it one. You did. So your Pink tutu comment, frankly, is insulting.

Now, as for saying I bring nothing to the table, well, thats a cheap shot, because, frankly, neither do you. The only thing you've done is take cheap shots at me, when I've tried to extend an olive branch, and ask for your help and advice and hope that, as fellow Democrats, we could brainstorm it together. Obviously, thats not forthcoming.

And as for your comments about what we're doing on the ground now, thats what I suggested we do in my second post, when I said that we as Democrats need to combat this individually, and together! Glad you came around to my initial viewpoint.

Anyway, I'm off to other threads. Its late, and I'm tired of arguing with the wall.

[alisongiggles1960]

3. Thanks for posting this It's a good article

Some officials, elected or otherwise, with whom I have
spoken with left meetings in the Oval Office concerned that
the president was struggling with the demands of the job.
Others focused on Bush's substantial interpersonal gifts as
a compensation for his perceived lack of broader
capabilities. Still others, like Senator Carl Levin of
Michigan, a Democrat, are worried about something other
than his native intelligence. ''He's plenty smart enough to
do the job,'' Levin said. ''It's his lack of curiosity
about complex issues which troubles me.'' But more than
anything else, I heard expressions of awe at the
president's preternatural certainty and wonderment about
its source.

There is one story about Bush's particular brand of
certainty I am able to piece together and tell for the
record.

In the Oval Office in December 2002, the president met with
a few ranking senators and members of the House, both
Republicans and Democrats. In those days, there were high
hopes that the United States-sponsored ''road map'' for the
Israelis and Palestinians would be a pathway to peace, and
the discussion that wintry day was, in part, about
countries providing peacekeeping forces in the region. The
problem, everyone agreed, was that a number of European
countries, like France and Germany, had armies that were
not trusted by either the Israelis or Palestinians. One
congressman -- the Hungarian-born Tom Lantos, a Democrat
from California and the only Holocaust survivor in Congress
-- mentioned that the Scandinavian countries were viewed
more positively. Lantos went on to describe for the
president how the Swedish Army might be an ideal candidate
to anchor a small peacekeeping force on the West Bank and
the Gaza Strip. Sweden has a well-trained force of about
25,000. The president looked at him appraisingly, several
people in the room recall.

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/17/magazine/17BUSH.html?oref=login&oref=login&oref=login

[slor]

8. Email text and link...

to all you know, print a few copies and leave at local coffeehouses or bars. Get this article out there.

[kaitykaity]

9. Go to bugmenot.com. You'll never have to register

again.

It's great.

[Scairp]

12. Read and pass it on

Get it to as many people as possible. After reading this article, I am now officially scared shitless.

[LibertyorDeath]

15. A must read!

:kick: :kick: :kick: :kick:

[kimchi]

16. Great article!

Take a highlighter to the good parts!

[Roland99]

18. This sums up the Bush Presidency....

He didn't always talk this way. A precious glimpse of Bush, just as he was ascending to the presidency, comes from Jim Wallis, a man with the added advantage of having deep acuity about the struggles between fact and faith. Wallis, an evangelical pastor who for 30 years has run the Sojourners -- a progressive organization of advocates for social justice -- was asked during the transition to help pull together a diverse group of members of the clergy to talk about faith and poverty with the new president-elect.

In December 2000, Bush sat in the classroom of a Baptist church in Austin, Tex., with 30 or so clergy members and asked, ''How do I speak to the soul of the nation?'' He listened as each guest articulated a vision of what might be. The afternoon hours passed. No one wanted to leave. People rose from their chairs and wandered the room, huddling in groups, conversing passionately. In one cluster, Bush and Wallis talked of their journeys.

''I've never lived around poor people,'' Wallis remembers Bush saying. ''I don't know what they think. I really don't know what they think. I'm a white Republican guy who doesn't get it. How do I get it?''

Wallis recalls replying, ''You need to listen to the poor and those who live and work with poor people.''

Bush called over his speechwriter, Michael Gerson, and said, ''I want you to hear this.'' A month later, an almost identical line -- ''many in our country do not know the pain of poverty, but we can listen to those who do'' -- ended up in the inaugural address...


...A few months later, on Feb. 1, 2002, Jim Wallis of the Sojourners stood in the Roosevelt Room for the introduction of Jim Towey as head of the president's faith-based and community initiative. John DiIulio, the original head, had left the job feeling that the initiative was not about ''compassionate conservatism,'' as originally promised, but rather a political giveaway to the Christian right, a way to consolidate and energize that part of the base.

Moments after the ceremony, Bush saw Wallis. He bounded over and grabbed the cheeks of his face, one in each hand, and squeezed. ''Jim, how ya doin', how ya doin'!'' he exclaimed. Wallis was taken aback. Bush excitedly said that his massage therapist had given him Wallis's book, ''Faith Works.'' His joy at seeing Wallis, as Wallis and others remember it, was palpable -- a president, wrestling with faith and its role at a time of peril, seeing that rare bird: an independent counselor. Wallis recalls telling Bush he was doing fine, '''but in the State of the Union address a few days before, you said that unless we devote all our energies, our focus, our resources on this war on terrorism, we're going to lose.' I said, 'Mr. President, if we don't devote our energy, our focus and our time on also overcoming global poverty and desperation, we will lose not only the war on poverty, but we'll lose the war on terrorism.'''

Bush replied that that was why America needed the leadership of Wallis and other members of the clergy.

''No, Mr. President,'' Wallis says he told Bush, ''We need your leadership on this question, and all of us will then commit to support you. Unless we drain the swamp of injustice in which the mosquitoes of terrorism breed, we'll never defeat the threat of terrorism.''

Bush looked quizzically at the minister, Wallis recalls. They never spoke again after that.

''When I was first with Bush in Austin, what I saw was a self-help Methodist, very open, seeking,'' Wallis says now. ''What I started to see at this point was the man that would emerge over the next year -- a messianic American Calvinist. He doesn't want to hear from anyone who doubts him.''

That sums up Bush's presidency in a nice little soundbite.

Bush appears to be a very insecure, spoiled brat and he is leading our nation and directing foreign policy on faith, not debate. Making decisions on gut instincts and faith, not on consensus and reviewing facts.

Now we know John Kerry is right when he says Bush is wrong.


And this piece:
In the summer of 2002, after I had written an article in Esquire that the White House didn't like about Bush's former communications director, Karen Hughes, I had a meeting with a senior adviser to Bush. He expressed the White House's displeasure, and then he told me something that at the time I didn't fully comprehend -- but which I now believe gets to the very heart of the Bush presidency.

The aide said that guys like me were ''in what we call the reality-based community,'' which he defined as people who ''believe that solutions emerge from your judicious study of discernible reality.'' I nodded and murmured something about enlightenment principles and empiricism. He cut me off. ''That's not the way the world really works anymore,'' he continued. ''We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you're studying that reality -- judiciously, as you will -- we'll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that's how things will sort out. We're history's actors . . . and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do.''

Who besides guys like me are part of the reality-based community? Many of the other elected officials in Washington, it would seem. A group of Democratic and Republican members of Congress were called in to discuss Iraq sometime before the October 2002 vote authorizing Bush to move forward. A Republican senator recently told Time Magazine that the president walked in and said: ''Look, I want your vote. I'm not going to debate it with you.'' When one of the senators began to ask a question, Bush snapped, ''Look, I'm not going to debate it with you.''

Scary shit....I'm telling you.


GET OUT THE VOTE!!!