Michael Moore to endorse Clark

[Mattforclark]

Although I hate to quote drudge, it seems to be the place that has it first.

"FLASH: Michael Moore to endorse Wesley Clark... Moore: 'He's an honest and decent man. I would like to see the General debate the deserter'..."

b-b-b-b-bbbuttttt He is not a real Democrat! ;)

[QC]

1. Let the trashing begin!

Yeeeeee-HAW!

[Mattforclark]

12. Yeah, it'll be

(is) humorous to watch.

[Clark Can WIN]

16. That damn Michael Moore

I suppose he's now a PNAC loving republican corporate media stooge.

[QC]

Somehow I always knew he wasn't a *real* Democrat!

:-)

[Name removed]

76. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[meow mix]

26. this proves moore is part of the clark conspiracy

to depopulate the world by 2/3s and install a worldwide dictatorship.
at which point the main food-source of humanity becomes kittens..

[Renew Deal]

29. Not funny coming

from a guy names "meow mix" ;)

[Mattforclark]

44. Depopulation

Wait, but after he kills 2/3 of the world's non-American population, he has an evil scheme to repopulate the rest of the world with brand new Americans popped out of American women all because of his tax reform plan, which increases the tax credit for children.



...



That must be why he wants to vastly increase the budget for international aid.

:)

[Printer70]

78. Moore's fine, his endorsement is bad politics

Won't play well in the general. More amateurish politics from an amateur.

[Hoppin_Mad]

2. He's been touting him for months -eom

[meow mix]

3. im shocked

shocked! i say

this outta be real good for some extensive free media though =)
awsome!!!

[hellhathnofury]

4. I thought Moore already endorsed Clark?

With his voting record what do you expect?

[LittleDannySlowhorse]

5. I thought he already did?

I thought I saw an "open letter" to Clark from Moore before Clark entered the race --- right?

[Mattforclark]

9. It was not an endorsement,

only a letter saying that he thought he should run so that we could see his ideas and decide whether we wanted him.

[mmonk]

6. I expected it

at some point.

[Goldom]

7. Odd...

When I saw him in person here not long ago, he said he wouldn't endorse anyone yet, but was currently in favor of Dean or Kucinich... and also "Anyone but Lieberman".

[Clark Can WIN]

8. WAHOOOOOOO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

[hellhathnofury]

18. Extreme, Moore doesn't bring anything but name recogn.

[Clark Can WIN]

27. Well, thanks for being nice

and stopping by to rain on my parade, but I happen to like Michael More.

:spank:

But you're representing your candidate nicely.

[hellhathnofury]

30. Just doing my job. Remember post debate?

You may like him but it's about as significant as a Madonna endorsement. This one has been apparent for months.

[QC]

37. But, on the other hand,

when the retired postmistress of Bumfucke, Iowa rises from her rocking chair to endorse Howard Dean, we're all treated to the sight of five duplicate threads on the subject.

Whatever. While I find those threads a bit silly, I never run in and piss on them. As bitter and hateful as this place has become, why not let people have a little fun?

[hellhathnofury]

42. True, alot of people do go and piss on us.

I'm just feelin' vicious tonight, plus the truth is that Moore isn't much of an endorsement. If the truth hurts so be it.

I'll be my usual fawning self tommorow.

[Davis_X_Machina]

10. Moore would have, to be consistent.,...

...to endorse Clark, or Moseley-Braun, or Sharpton.

He doesn't think much of politicians as a class.

No surprises here.

[MrSlayer]

11. Moore has endorsed him long before this.

Saw it on his site a while ago.

[exotrip]

13. well

Everyone knows Michael Moore is really a Republican. Also, did you know General Clark eats babies and washes them down with the blood of newborn puppies? Also, I think he is sleeping with your wife. *

Sorry, just wanted to get all the crap out of the way before some very misinformed people start bashing the honorable MM. BTW, for what it's worth, if he endorses Dean, I will give Dean a second look. I trust MM's opinion.

* stole shamelessly from FARK.

[Clark Can WIN]

21. WELCOME TO DU

nice to have you on board too :pals:

[Renew Deal]

31. Welcome

I haven't heard the puppy one before, but I would believe it.

Welcome to DU!!! :hi:

[Paragon]

14. I like Michael, saw him speak at Xavier University

Still, it's sad to see him buy into the Clark hype. Oh, well.

[SeveneightyWhoa]

32. LOL!

Yeah, it's pretty "sad", huh?
And I didn't realize Clark was all "hype". I must be really, really gullible.

[Syrinx]

39. I don't like Xavier, since they whupped Bama!

:)

I like Michael Moore though. I think Mike just sees the writing on the wall, and reallizes that Clark is the person to neutralize Bush*'s perceived strengths, and wipe the floor with him! Go Clark!

Anyone but Bush, by the way.

[Renew Deal]

40. Maybe it ain't hype.

Clark is the real deal. You see it in the polls, money, volunteers and enthusiasm.

[Paragon]

43. It's hype. The guy's a one-issue candidate.

Oh sure, he'll talk about other issues, but we all know why he's really there. Clark vs. Bush "legitimizes" the entire evil Republican strategy -- the candidates are right; we won't win by being "Bush Lite".

[SeveneightyWhoa]

47. One issue, huh?

Have you seen the "issues" section of the website? Or do you get your political news from CNN?

[Paragon]

51. Yeah, I'm afraid so.

He's not running because of his other positions - it's because of the "Ret. Gen." before his name. Sorry.

[SeveneightyWhoa]

52. Sorry?

Oh, it's okay.
Thanks for summing up Clark's campaign in one sentence though. I can't vote anyway, since I'm Canadian, so make sure you give this great info to Americans who can. You're a great help!

[Paragon]

53. Just my two cents.

The guy's entire candidacy is awfully transparent - which is why "1 out 8 Democrats think Clark is a liberal" isn't terribly shocking to me.

I've seen his platform, and he's to the left of Howard Dean - but none of that matters. In order to support the guy, you have to buy into the myth of Democrats being soft on defense and national security...which I happen to know is a bunch of right-wing bullshit.

So, back to my original point -- it's sad to see someone as smart as Michael Moore buy into right-wing bullshit.

[QC]

54. Actually, no.

In order to support the guy, you have to buy into the myth of Democrats being soft on defense and national security...which I happen to know is a bunch of right-wing bullshit.

One has to understand that this perception, although most assuredly bullshit, is widespread and has haunted Democrats since the 60's. This perception, false as it is, has to be disarmed if we are to become the majority party again.

In the shorter term, Bush is clearly planning to campaign as the secret lovechild of McArthur and Patton, and putting someone on the ticket who has a real service record makes that much harder to promote a deserter as a brave warrior.

Of course, the more pure and noble among us would say that acknowledging the public's perceptions is pandering, but I am much more interested in kicking Bush's simian little ass than in being pure.

[Paragon]

57. It's not just that it's pandering

It's that Clark has parity (perhaps) with Bush on one issue (defense/security/etc), and then loses every other question because of his lack of experience in, well....everything else.

I don't think his Washington lobbying or his time on CNN counts as "experience".

[QC]

59. So you do feel that addressing voters' concerns and fears is pandering?

Well, dismissing their concerns is no way to win elections, and if we don't get Bush out, then all our fine ideals and proposals aren't worth a bucket of spit.

Kind of a Catch-22, you know? If it were up to me, we would elect a genuine Leftist, not a Park Avenue/Hamptons centrist who pretends to be one, and we would make some real changes in this country, but it's not entirely up to me. We have to get 50% + 1, and we won't get it by telling the voters that they are morons to be concerned about national security.

[Paragon]

61. Clark is hardly the guy to truly address their concerns and fears.

Like I said, his presence would legitimize the fear-based campaign that BushCo has run ever since 9/11. I'd much rather have my candidate smack the populace on the head and get them to wake up rather than feed into Bush's paranoia.

Sounds like you're also buying into the fear of a repeat of the last election. Nader ended up being right about the similarity of the two candidates, considering how close the election was. Not much probability of that happening again, unless hell freezes over and Lieberman gets the nomination. We'll either kick Bush's ass or lose, but it won't be as close.

[QC]

63. So you think Nader was right?

No difference between the two candidates?

Hard to imagine that anyone could look at what has happened these past three years and seriously suggest that Gore would have fucked up in such epic style as Bush has.

But, let's assume that you're right and we should convince the public that they are in no danger. How do we go about that? It seems to me to be something that would take years, given how the country has been a national security state for six decades and counting, and not something that can be done by running one candidate in one election.

So how do we undo the effects of those six decades of official paranoia, particularly in light of what happened on 9/11?

[Paragon]

64. Wow, you're really reading into what I'm saying.

You and I know there was differences between Bush & Gore -- but before the election, Gore didn't do much to distinguish himself. And judging by the election returns, the voters were split about 50/50 -- so Nader ended up being right, in that respect.

I also don't know how you got the idea that I think the public is in no danger - that's obviously not true. What the public needs to be convinced of is the right way to go about defending us, and just how badly and misguided a job the Bushies have done.

[QC]

66. OK--got you now.

And I wouldn't say that there are no dangers, of course, only that I don't think we can break the habits of mind that come from decades of scaring people in one election.

As for the right way to protect people, I agree that Bush has made a mess of it. I also think that Clark, even if he drops out tomorrow, has done a very valuable service by criticizing Bush for going about things so badly and also for showing that it's possible for a career military man to be an unabashed liberal.

But I'm off to bed now--early class to teach.

Nitey nite!

[Mattforclark]

48. You are right

we need a candidate who has been there when it comes to affirmative action.

[JVS]

15. Isn't Michael Moore a Green? Perhaps he sees an chance for the Greens...

to do well against a Democratic candidate who is widely perceived as not being liberal.

[JohnKleeb]

I dont think thats the case

Yes he is a green but I think hes genuinely supporting Clark, which is odd because I swear he condemned the Clinton adminstration in bowling for columbine for Kosovo. :shrug:

[JVS]

23. Moore has lots of irons in lots of fires.

It will be funny to watch people who hated Nader, suddenly realize how much they love one of Nader's biggest proponents.

[JohnKleeb]

I dont think thats the case

Yes he is a green but I think hes genuinely supporting Clark, which is odd because I swear he condemned the Clinton adminstration in bowling for columbine for Kosovo. :shrug:

[mouse7]

36. Yeah... Clark and Moore are from the Green wing of the GOP

:silly:

[JVS]

38. If it is reasonable for people to suggest Rove wants Dean...

is it not also reasonable for people to suggest that Nader wants Clark?

I can see the Greens picking up voters on this.

[Printer70]

79. Bingo

You got it. Moore campaigned for Nader and Nader is making the noises that he's ready for another run per the NY Times. Clark's support of militarism and corporatism will drive Dean supporters into Nader's fold. I would sooner support Nader than Clark.

[ludwigb]

88. Nonsense

Moore is much too stupid to get involved in a conspiracy like that. I think Moore likes Clark because Clark defended him after the Oscar's speech. Also, Moore probably feels guilty in his role helping the Republigreens and hopes to make good by supporting the "electable" Clark.

[Egnever]

17. I thought he endorsed months ago?

hasnt this allready been anounced?

[Dookus]

20. No...

he wrote an open letter to Clark urging him to run.

It was far short of an endorsement.

[democracyindanger]

24. Moore only 'endorsed' Clark as far as

posting a letter on his website encouraging Clark to run. Not an official endorsement, per se.

And it still isn't. Drudge, after all, is the source. Not trying to dump any water on it, just hoping to stem the Moore-bashing that is sure to follow...

[stickdog]

19. Yes, Drudge ALWAYS gets it right. Doesn't he?

Drudge seems to be the favorite news source of several Clark supporters.

Hmmmmm ...

[SeveneightyWhoa]

34. Um, are you serious?

Drudge is quite fond of smearing Wes Clark. You can't be serious in what you're saying.

[Toot]

22. I like Michael and he's entitled to have his opinion and thankfully I have

my own.

[Dirk39]

25. I'm just waiting for the books and films you will release,

after this corporate war-criminal PNAC-walkman is in office for a year. I'm really waiting, Michael. Vulgar populist "left"-wing polemics are somehow restricted to a certain level, aren't they Michael? And a media-Micky Mouse can't replace real people talking, writing and doing something?
Isn't it a short way from supporting Nader - 'cause Gore is just republican lite, as well as Clinton - to supporting this corrupt lip-serving empty idiot with his mussolini-advertising.
Heroic, patriotic on a black background. Is this the democrazy, you want, Michael Moore. At least Bushi-boy was somehow funny.
Dissapointed once more in Germany,
Dirk

[Renew Deal]

33. Moore bashing spotted right here.

Get your fill.

[QC]

41. I had a hard time following that one. Still a bit confused.

[exotrip]

35. Just no pleasing anyone

If Clark is PNAC, he is the smartest Neocon in the world. Any fool knew Iraq would be a disaster, and Clark pointed it out time and again. So, if Clark is a Neocon (he's not BTW), then all hail our new Neocon lord, who will give working families a tax break, shore up organized labor, save our schools, protect the environment, etc.

ALL the things Bush is NOT.

[Mattforclark]

45. I liked your position on cannibalism

more than your position on Clark.

Do you really think that Clark is a PNAC war criminal?

[Dookus]

49. LOL...

I love it.

In 48 hours, Paul O'Neill has become a lefty hero, and Michael Moore and Al Sharpton are now right-wing stooges.

The things you learn here....

[QC]

50. Yeah, this is a very educational place, isn't it?

[Renew Deal]

28. Moore is a PNAC plant

Or is he a peanut plant? Whatever

[TexasSissy]

46. Is this for real? I've seen other posts about endorsements that

never came.

Yes, I know Moore likes Clark, among another one or two of the candidates. I saw him speak positively on ...I think it was C-Span interview....about Clark. But it wasn't exactly an endorsement.

Note: I'm a Clark supporter, so I would be delighted if it were true.

[Constitution]

55. Good for Moore.

I know that he likes Kucinich but someone's got to stop Dean and if Moore endorses Clark, some people may start to wake up and look at the issues.

[Clark4VotingRights]

56. Woah, that'd be amazing. Moore is a wonderful compassionate man.

He came to town a few weeks back and filled up a theater
that holds thousands, and it was sold out weeks in advance.
He gave the most amazing talk, just fabulous.
Described the what he had to go thru after he spoke the
truth at the Oscars.

I just got done reading his latest book.
Couldn't get it signed after the talk though, 'cause the
line would have taken hours to get thru.

One hero endorsing another.
Excellent.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

58. Fucking. Awesome. It Completely Exposes the Idiots Attacking Clark...

...for supposedly being a Republican.

Go Michael Moore!

:bounce:

DTH

[NV1962]

60. May I suggest reserving a ticket for "Fahrenheit 911"

When that movie comes out, it'll be gaga-for-all in the campaign.

Predicted, right here.

You read it on DU first!

[Hoppin_Mad]

62. That quote is from months ago -eom-

[digno dave]

65. BOO-YAAA!!! So much for labels

He may not be a "real democrat" but he's a REAL AMERICAN.

[Name removed]

67. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

68. And To That I Say...HA, HA, HA!

Everything "we've" worked for. Yeah, right!

:eyes:

DTH

[Name removed]

70. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

72. It's Just Too Bad for You That Michael Moore Doesn't Share the Kneejerk

Antipathy of certain blind "professional left" elements toward the military.

Clark is an honorable man. And you don't know what I've protested against.

DTH

[Name removed]

73. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[JVS]

80. Not Cluster-bombing civilians makes you weak on defence!

Well, it does in the eyes of some people here. Strange collection we have, isn't it?

[Name removed]

81. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[edzontar]

90. You are in the Twilight Zone, at least today....

As the DLC types who love Clark and hate leftists now stand to embrace Michael Moore, and Moore himself embraces a man whose main claim to fame is a war that moore has denouncec poublicly, in print, and on film.

Up is down, right is left, and lordy knows where it all leading.

[SahaleArm]

69. LOL - The professional left...

http://www.liberalresurgent.com/mooreclark.mp3

[DoveTurnedHawk]

71. TRANSCRIPT

And then people say, well (in a mocking voice): "But Mike, but Mike, he voted for Reagan, Clark voted for Reagan!"

Yeah? So? So did most of America! You know? Do you wanna win? I mean, the only way you win, you see, is if you get most of America on your side. And if someone who voted for Reagan now says, "I'm joining your team, I don't believe in that any more," we have to open up our arms! This is why people don't like the left! This is why people don't like liberals! You know?

(In a mocking voice): "No, no, no, no, no, he, he voted for Reagan, no, no, not pure, not pure, don't like him, no, no!"

That's why nobody wants to join our side, we're so, like, up on our high horse! You know? What do you say to working class America, there's all these people who voted for Reagan, that now realize, they were duped! They were had! They're worse off now after 20 years of Republicanism!

You know? You, what do you say (in a mocking voice): "Nope, can't come to our side, you voted for Reagan!"

Jeez! I mean, come on, folks! You know? I don't know.

(In a mocking voice): "He was the Butcher of Kosovo!" That's the other one. (In a mocking voice): "He was the Butcher…Clark was the butcher of Kosovo!"

I've heard, I've heard an alternate version of the story, that was in the New York Times and the Washington Post last week. About why he was fired. Because he was trying to stop the genocide in Kosovo, in a way that would cost, even, that would cost, that would result in fewer civilian losses. I'd like to hear the story, I don't know, I mean, I'm just saying, I don't know, that's why I'm waiting to see, you know, what's being said here. I'd like to know.

But I'll tell you this much, folks. We're not fighting the Kosovo war right now. Don't let the professional left drag you into an argument that is a sideshow. We are fighting the Iraq war right now, that's the war we've gotta stop, and that's the war he says he will stop! That's the war he says he'll tell the American people the truth about how Bush has fought an immoral war! And that's what we need, we need that on our side.

www.liberalresurgent.com/mooreclark.mp3

DTH

[SeveneightyWhoa]

74. But Mike!

He voted for Reagan! :wow:

[NV1962]

82. Exactly

No greater disgrace among progressives than a saloon socialist: the type that lives vicariously by the grace of could-have-been-contenders that are vocally (hardly materially) supported in so far as it allows them to bask in gloriously impotent self-righteousness, even (this is what really ticks me off) when the gates are a faded memory and the wolves are tearing at the buttocks already. That was funny under Clinton; under Bush it sounds more like a deranged and pseudo-left wing variation of "death to intelligence!"

"Nononononono, not pure, not pure, not pure!"

[SahaleArm]

84. It's a self-fullfilling prophecy - If they had power...

then they couldn't b*tch. It's easier to complain from the ivory tower than to take responsibility.

[Name removed]

75. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[SahaleArm]

83. When the professional left meets the professional right...

You know you've walked into the twilight zone. Waco again? And people wonder why Google dropped Indymedia as a news source.

[Printer70]

77. Moore = ballast

We love him as wing-nuts love Rush. But both are detested by the mainstream. Watch Clark's numbers dive versus Bush in a head-to-head matchup. The Right will use Moore's inflammatory words against Clark. Amateurish political move. Should have used Moore in the background without the formal endorsement.

[tinanator]

85. michael moore blows goats

I no longer wish his foolish ass well. at all. His reckless comments about Mumia were taken by family members as the equivalent of Clinton's Sistah Souljah appeal to bigots, and Dean's confederate flag bearing pickup trucks. I hope Michael gets the crap kicked out of him by a righteous brother someday soon (if it hasnt happened already in the past?) because he is a fuckup.

[RandomUser]

86. Remember the good ole days?

When DU praised Moore for his public stance and courage against the war at the Oscars? Or when DU'ers raved about his book against the right-wing and encouraged everyone to read this voice of sanity? And of course Bowling for Columbine.

And now people are bashing the guy they praised yesterday. What's changed? Hmm...one guess.

Looks like the Moore trashing is well underway.

[Rose Siding]

92. I remember doubt about the credibility of Drudge

[Killarney]

87. Great news!

[edzontar]

89. I appreciate Moore's work, but his endorsement is a double-edged

Sword.

Many in the US see him as a radical leftist, and many clark supporters here are vociferous in thei hatred for radicals and leftists--so I wonder how all this should be intepreted....

For all of those who insist (about a million times a day) that Clark has a "moderate's" centrist appeal...how does this jibe with a Moore endorsement--which the Pukes will probably hang around his neck like an anvil?

What I see at the moment is a vision of Clark with a bunch of more or less Hollywood endorsements---Madonna, Mooore--and the Clintons (who Moore despises) working behind the scenes to raise money for him.

It is a very curious scenario--and i'm not sure how to read it.

[Cheswick2.0]

91. YE GADS, is there no end to the bad luck of the Clark campaign?

OY!
MM writes good books and makes great movies, but he sucks at politics and his endorsement is the kiss of death.

[Killarney]

93. Please

:hurts:

[WillyBrandt]

94. Doesn't Moore know about the HOMESTEAD ACT?

Come on--some DUer can let him in on Clark's horrible reference of this!!!

[NoPasaran]

95. Congratulations to the Clark Camp

Sometimes I agree with Michael Moore; sometimes he says things that make me cringe. But I have to give him some respect for being one of the leading popularizers of Left ideas in the country today.

Jeez, it's not like he's dating Ann Coulter.

[Snivi Yllom]

96. endorsements don't mean much to me

I mean Madonna?

She does not even live in America any more?

Let's pick candidates on the issues and not on hip endorsements.