A lifelong republican friend of mine today,

[southern democrat]

told me he thought Kerry was going to win. He said that the republicans weren't as enthusiastac this time as they were in 2000. He said he was still voting for Bush out of party loyality, but that was it. He has been small business over 30 years and said it was as bad or worse now than it has ever been. No matter who wins, he is at the brink of giving up and quitting.

He is a person of whom I respect very much and has been truthfull with me over many years. He respects me also and does not just tell me want I want to hear, so I value his wisdom very much. He has been in the right political circles in my heavy conservitave area for years. He is hearing of problems within the Republican christan base. Hearing what he had to say made feel better than any poll showing Kerry with 10 pt. could ever do. Just thought I would share.

[realFedUp]

1. "party loyalty"

It's hard for me to wrap my brain around
someone who is intelligent and seeing
that his business and others aren't doing
well under Bush will still cast his
or her vote for him out of party loyalty.
I guess I don't have party loyalty and
never understood someone voting lifelong
for a party that doesn't reflect their
own lives.

[indie_voter]

5. I don't understand it either. nt

[southern democrat]

8. It is hard to believe but it is reality.

I would not be afraid to say 20-25% of either party but more so republican ,would vote for theie candidate out of party loyality.

[cidliz2004]

10. Awesome signature, where did you get it

and how do you make it "a signature?"

Is "Party Loyalty" something like what people had in Hitler's Germany? They saw the monstrocities taking place and stood by monstor Hitler? That is what I equate the Bush supporters to.
It is the only explanation. The people that followed Hitler, are the same type of people following Bush. They see the carnage, but they choose to ignore it to "support" their leader. SICK SICK SICK
People!

[The Magistrate]

22. Identification With And Membership In A Group, Sir

Is at the basis of all political action.

One comes to conceive oneself as a cell within the larger body, so to speak, and one of the necessities becomes a willingness to sacrifice for the good of the whole. No one wants to let their comrades down in a pinch....

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

[cthrumatrix]

2. the truth is that shrub "lies" about what he does...people know the BS

[liberalpragmatist]

3. Party Loyalty is the only thing keeping folks voting for Bush

That's why the race is close. Believe me, nearly all the intelligent Conservatives I know - many good friends - they ALL are singularly unenthiastic about Shrub. They decree his free-spending, most have major doubts about the Iraq War and many of them (who aren't social conservatives) decry his aliance with the religious far-right.

The only reason they're voting Bush is out of blind party loyalty. Their inevitable response is, "Kerry would be worse." In fact, that was probably the lasting impact of Bushco's smear campaign of Kerry - independents have now woken up to reality following Kerry's solid debate performance, but many disgruntled Republicans and conservatives have now been convinced that Kerry is wholly unfit for office and thus that Bush is the better choice.

[IChing]

4. Party loyality?

Have him read what reagan republicans are saying about smirky' administration (too many to list). Al Gore's speech,
I don't have republican friends anymore,
they now say they are independents.

[naufragus]

6. tell him he is still a Repub after he votes for kerry

[SammyWinstonJack]

7. Will "party loyalty" feed his family?

[txindy]

9. With all due respect to your friend, I'd have to ask him

if loyalty to his party or to his country's future was more important to him. He seems as if he understands what is happening. What he is about to do by voting for Junior, knowing what he knows now, is unconscionable, as far as I'm concerned. That's not loyalty. (No, I don't mean for you to say this to your friend. It's just my own opinion.)

It sounds as if the two of you have a solid friendship, even with all that is happening. That's a rare thing and a good one. :toast:

[southern democrat]

24. Have you ever hear of yellow dog democrats?

Democrats who would vote for a yellow dog before a republican. Well there are republicans who feel the same way.

[txindy]

28. Oh, I know

But this isn't a typical election. And even a yellow dog democrat or republican can simply skip the line on the ballot that has them choose their candidate for president. I'm not saying he must vote for Kerry. His own political history probably prohibits that. But he can simply NOT vote for president and then go on to vote republican on all other candidates/issues. His own party has failed to give him a candidate he can agree with. That's all I'm saying.

[w4rma]

11. Party over country. That about sums up most Repugs. (nt)

[Rambis]

12. Loyalty to whom?

Bush is a no good MF! There is no loylaty with him unless you are his friend and get to rape the USA in some way. Wake up!

[MsTryska]

13. this is why i'm an Independent and always will be.

i can't fathom having a lifelong affiliation with the Dem party (altho my principles are dem through and through). I mean, what if my party got hijacked the way the republican party has been?

easier to stay independent and make decisions with my mind and my heart.

[humanbeing]

20. life long affiliation?

Not all states required registration with a party affiliation, first of all. I live in WA and we only recently passed legislation to change our primaries to where you may only vote for one party, and that may get reversed.

Second, I don't believe that when you declare a party that it gets tattooed onto your forehead, does it? So you can change any time you want.

So being 'Independent' is all well and good, but let's not make the assumption that all of us here don't 'make decisions with our minds and heart', that's rather condescending.

[MsTryska]

23. Um...the only person making that ASSumption, hopefully,

is you. i was speakign directly to this guy and his "loyal to his party, shoot himself in the foot" voting style.


and yes, i understand not all states require one's affiliation, matter of fact i live in one of thsoe states.

that still doesn't stop people from affiliating to the party their daddy belonged to.


perfect example: Zell Miller.

[Bandit]

14. "so I value his wisdom very much."

I would rethink that position if I were you. He may be a freiend and you may consider him smart, but wise, and voting for Bush* ...I don't think so. No truly wise person IMHO can vote for Bush*.. period.

[southern democrat]

25. He is my friend, I am a die hard Kerry supporter.

If he votes Bush that will not end our friendship. And yes I do value his insight on the mood of republicans in our reigon. I am offended that you are suggesting I am stupid for doing so. I wanted to convey to DUers the rebublican mood in my area, not stir up a hornets nest or be insulted.

[troubleinwinter]

15. Ask him if he is a Party Lemming.

Where is his loyalty to his country? His fellow citizens? What's a party, anyway, if it is corrupt and wrong?

[Joe Turner]

16. Your friend is spot on

This is the dirty little secret that the Bush Campaign has been desperately trying to cover up. They always say that Bush has record support among republicans and his base is highly energized.

As usual, nothing could be further from the truth.

I've mentioned this a number of times on DU. Bush has alienated a good percentage of his republican base, particularly conservatives, and is going into this election, unlike last time, with a very weak grassroots/local "get out the vote" operation. Many of the foot soldiers that made the difference in 2000 will not campaign or vote for him.

Yes, it’s why he is going to lose.

[johnnyrocket]

17. Maybe the pollsters are getting knee jerk answers to people's pick...

but when folks actually have to vote, I'm getting a sense that a lot of folks out there are contemplating, assessing, weighing a more rational decision...and it includes grave doubts about Bush.

[DebinTx]

18. My superbly stubborn republican sister relented this weekend

and will now vote for Kerry. Her reasons are the war in Iraq and Kerry's great showing in the debates. She said that Kerry was extremely reasonable during the debates and the economy sucks (this from a woman who was able to retire at the ripe old age of 51!).
Goooooooo Kerry!

[SammyWinstonJack]

19. Good News!

[skygazer]

21. That "party loyalty" gets me, too

It's like it's no more important than who wins the Super Bowl or something - "well, my team sucks this year but I'm going to root for them anyway." That's okay when it's a game but when the fate of our country rests on it, I just can't imagine how a person can, in good conscience, let their vote rest on something so ephemeral.

I have been registered variously as a Democrat or an Independent but I will not give my vote to someone I don't think deserves it, regardless of their party. I'd vote Republican if I really thought the candidate was the best person for the job. I cannot understand how one's loyalty to one's party can outshine their loyalty to the good of their country. It makes no sense.

[Mz Pip]

26. Party Loyalty???

Where is Bush's loyalty to the philosophy of the Republican Party?
Small government? Nope.
Non interventionist foreign policy. I don't think so.
No government interferance in individual's lives. No, again.

Why support party loyalty when your candidate doesn't?

MzPip
:dem:

[MissMarple]

27. Perhaps you could tell him about John Eisenhower.

He registered as an Independent in 2000 and is now supporting Kerry. His letter was in the Union Leader. Sorry, I don't have a link. Also you can google Republicans for Kerry. Some of them have donated in the 6 figures for Kerry.

[hippiegranny]

29. tell your friend

that he is voting for someone who has no party loyalty himself. Real Pubbies cannot even identify what the hell party Bushy represents.