Kerry KILLS among educated people.

[Czolgosz]

I am not surprised that Kerry would do much better that Bush among educated people, but this survey shows the gap is off the charts:

http://www.surveyusa.com/Scorecards/2004EducationGap101804.html

Why does this gap not warrant major media coverage (when they talk about gender gaps, church-going gaps, etc.)?

[arbusto_baboso]

1. Here's the problem with that....

Most Americans are not very educated. And even some of those who are educated are ignorant or poorly informed.

As to why the media doesn't adress the "education gap"? Think about it: the mass media DEPENDS on that gap so they can continue their softball right-wing-whore "journalism". Why would they draw any attention to such a gap?

[Blue Moon]

uneducated is a problem

I agree. The undeduated individual is going to vote for the person who pander to their fears.

[JohnnyCougar]

30. Welcome to DU, Blue Moon!!!

Cheers! :toast:

[Blue Moon]

33. cheers!

thanks!

[CrispyQ]

2. KKKarl would know . . .

"As people do better, they start voting like Republicans - unless they have too much education and vote Democratic, which proves there can be too much of a good thing."

What a loser.h

[hippiechick]

3. Kerry Kills Educated People ?

Hmmm ... just wait for the wingers to get ahold of that thread title and take it out of context !


:hippie:

[Czolgosz]

41. There is a difference between "Kerry kills among educated

people" and "Kerry kills educated people."

[foo_bar]

43. only if you're educated

[CAcyclist]

44. We know that

but do the right-wingers?

I could tell hippiechick was joking.

[hippiechick]

45. Thank you

The other responses just prove my point that some people take what they see very literally.

And seeing something that says 'Kerry KILLS (whatever)' is begging to be misinterpreted and spread far and wide thru freeperland.


:hi:

[kiahzero]

4. Because of the anti-intellectualist bent of American culture

Pointing this out might actually hurt Kerry, because people have this idea in their heads that their opinions are just as valid as the experts, even when their opinions are based on factually inaccurate assertions.

[secular_warrior]

23. It's why so many Americans identify with Bush

He is ignorant and proud of it - just like they are.

The average American is blissfully ignorant. Maybe beyond a certain point, the richer a country gets the closer it gets to the intelligence level of people in poor countries -- sort of a diminishing returns effect. In both scenarios the people are easily manipulated.

[kiahzero]

28. I think it's a relatively unique phenomena in America.

If I were more interested in actual political science (as opposed to law), I would probably research American anti-intellectualism. From what I've read, and the small amount of research I have seen on it, it seems to be tied to the individualistic culture that's been with us since the Revolution, as well as the notion that if everyone's equal, everyone's ideas must have equal merit. Since obviously not everyone can be incredibly bright (or even have enough time to truly examine issues in depth), the number of people who hold uninformed, and generally factually inaccurate, opinions will far outnumber those who can put together sound arguments. Combine this all with the American tyranny of the majority, and you have quite a recipe for anti-intellectualism.

[secular_warrior]

38. I never thought of it that way - makes a lot of sense.

Americans have always had this sort of "you think you better than me ?" attitude towards the intellectual elite, way before we were the richest, most powerful country in the world.

To expand upon your individualism point, I think because so much "common sense" and everyday ingenuity was necessary in settling and growing America, that the common man --farmers, pioneers, cowboys -- became the romantacized ideal, the heroes. The educated elite were looked upon as ineffective and out of touch with early American society.

[Jeff in Cincinnati]

48. Been There, Done That

Not me personally, but there's a book from the early 1960's called "Anti-Intellectualism in Ameican Life" by Richard Hofstader. It's one of the seminal books of American political culture, and one that really needs a comprehensive update.

For a more recent perspective, I just finished reading "What's the Matter with Kansas?" by Thomas Frank. Very interesting exploration of how fundamentalists manage to get people to vote against their economic interests. Talks about the whole anti-intellectual bent of the right wing.

Good stuff, in a pointy-headed-liberal kind of way...

[CAcyclist]

47. Absolutely

Case in point: I am a post-grad and I support Kerry; my best friend from 4th grade never finished college and she is wavering between Kerry and Bush even though his policies are hurting her family. She repeats to me the most outrageous reasons that others tell her to support Bush.

When we were younger, she would always sneer about "book learning" and state that her hands-on experience was more relevant. This is an attitude she learned fron her dad.

She is actually very intelligent but she has dyslexia and if she had been raised in a different environment and been diagnosed earlier, she might not have been turned off from education.

On a different note, in Naomi Klein's book, No Logo, she discusses that in Europe, children learn about the way advertising works in grade school and they learn critical thinking skills that allow them to see the intent behind the advertising. Here, that's not a subject that is consistently taught and the only critical thinking classes are in higher education or an AP English class which few kids are exposed to.I was lucky - my mom would criticise the TV ads with us when we watched TV as kids and I also had the opportunity to take AP English in high school.

[acmavm]

5. I could have told you that dems are smarter than the other guys. Just

look at the people they run for office.

Poor Abraham Lincoln, he's gotta be spinnin' like a top.

[high density]

6. A while ago Zogby also showed a huge gap in Kerry's favor

from those who have valid passports.

[Philostopher]

51. Wonder if that's cause or effect?

I didn't get a passport until Bush* was in office, though I'm spitting distance from 40 and had no plans to leave the country other than to go to Canada (we did it for convenience, afraid we'd lose the notarized birth certificates that are considered equivalent). I ain't edjicated, but I'm smart enough to know that I have a better chance of escaping a pogrom if I have a valid passport, and gradually less likely to get one the more outspoken I become against the putsch and the more obvious it becomes I didn't drink the Kool-Aid.

Just wondering how many of those people got passports because of Bush*, rather than being world travelers who already had them.

[endnote]

7. Obvious, no? Reality-based vs Faith-based factions.

The well-educated are professionals who value logical analysis of reality. Bush is the anti-reality/anti-analysis Prez.

[pelagius]

9. Faith-based vs. Reality-based?

What's a two master-degreed Christian such as myself to do? I feel so so so ... bipolar.

;-)

[IIgnoreNobody]

21. He's refering to this:

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/17/magazine/17BUSH.html?pagewanted=all

In the summer of 2002, after I had written an article in Esquire that the White House didn't like about Bush's former communications director, Karen Hughes, I had a meeting with a senior adviser to Bush. He expressed the White House's displeasure, and then he told me something that at the time I didn't fully comprehend -- but which I now believe gets to the very heart of the Bush presidency.

The aide said that guys like me were ''in what we call the reality-based community,'' which he defined as people who ''believe that solutions emerge from your judicious study of discernible reality.'' I nodded and murmured something about enlightenment principles and empiricism. He cut me off. ''That's not the way the world really works anymore,'' he continued. ''We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you're studying that reality -- judiciously, as you will -- we'll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that's how things will sort out. We're history's actors . . . and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do.''

[pelagius]

24. Ahh, I see...

...then you'd probably have to put me in the reality-based camp. A little bit of religious faith is small potatoes compared to full-blown psychotic delusion.

[Jeff in Cincinnati]

49. Unitarian Universalist...

...Dude, move toward the light.

[DrZeeLit]

8. Welll, you know, I mean, like... DUH

Yes, I have a doctorate....
big smile.

[Born_A_Truman]

10. Saturday night

we had a couple over and the wife told me that Kerry was 'all over the place' during the debates when he talked.

Oh? I said I watched all three debates and yes, Kerry talks in complete sentences. I told her people who have known him all his life said while most people can discuss 3-4 parts of an issue, Kerry can discuss 15-20.

She looked at me and said, 'Well, he has a scientific mind and scientific minds are not good.'

I just looked at her like I had seen a ghost. I have never heard anything so stupid in my life!

[arewenotdemo]

18. pretty amazing quote

Did she elaborate? Would she like him burnt at the stake? :dunce:

[malachibk]

11. Nevada, as the outlier, is SUPER interesting

More educated = Repug

Least educated = Dem

The only one like that. Hmm.

[undercover_brother]

20. the latino immigrant population votes Democrat

[Zing Zing Zingbah]

26. Probably the more educated people in Nevada are the rich,

greedy business owners, like all those casino owners.

[meti57b]

12. maybe that's our problem. maybe we gotta find a brainless idiot like bush

to run.

[Pharlo]

17. The problem with that suggestion is that

we don't have as many brainless idiots on our side.

Or, as John Stuart Mill once said:

"Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives."

See, the numbers are against us ever being able to field an idiot of such magnanimous proportions....But it was a good idea.

[Awsi Dooger]

13. It depends on how you break it down

At least based on the 2000 election.

In 2000, 56% of the voters were either college graduates or had some college education. Each of those groups voted 51-45 for Bush. Not until you got to people with graduate degrees did Gore gain the edge, 52-44.

Gore did best of all among voters who did not have a high school diploma, 59-39. Unfortunately, I guess you would say, that group only made up 5% of all voters.

Here's the source I used for those numbers in 2000. I assume they're still available:
http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2000/epolls/US/P000.html

[Zing Zing Zingbah]

27. People with some college education shouldn't

be grouped with the ones that actually have degrees. Lots of people get accepted into college and then never actually graduate. Those people with some college education are probably more likely to vote for republicans than the ones that actually graduated.

[Awsi Dooger]

39. Each group voted identically for Bush -- 51-45

Check that link in my previous post. College graduates and people with some college education are listed separately, not grouped. 51-45 each.

[spooky3]

14. no offense to physicians, but if you took them out of the grad. school

column, I would bet the findings would be even more favorable to Kerry.

[Princess Turandot]

15. It's interesting that on other forums which I read, which are not poltical

boards (such as a pet related board) but will have an off-topic forum where things like politics might be discussed, the most common thing that Bush supporters start whining about, when they can no longer argue something on the merits, is that Kerry supporters think they are stupid.

It takes a lot to not respond well, "unless you're a millionaire, you are."

[yardwork]

31. Same thing has happened to me!

It comes out of nowhere. Sometimes I don't even think they are stupid, just misguided, poorly informed, and/or bigoted.

When they bring up "you think we're stupid!" I usually stop and think, "you know, they're right. Now that they mention it, I DO think they are stupid."

And that's usually when I quit posting on that board.

[sofa king]

16. Gotta be a little bit stupid to be a Republican.

Here's a map of the 2000 election by county, red being Democrat:



Here's a map of educational attainment in the United States, red being higher:




http://www.uselectionatlas.org/
http://130.166.124.2/US_Ed.html

Interestingly, both education and Democratic support also closely follow population density:



At the risk of sounding like a total butthole, I think there is a pretty obvious conclusion to be drawn: the more people you're willing to deal with, the better educated you are, and the more likely you are to vote Democrat.

[seabeyond]

19. anyone who reads a book is a fancy pants elitist, dont you know

this is a given. dems always gt the intellectuals. wink

[Pharlo]

25. Well, that certainly does explain

how this self-proclaimed 'education' president can justify insufficient funding for his 'No Child Left Behind' program.

Thank you for clarifying this for me.

I was under the impression that the plan was FOR education and to teach children to read. Apparently I misunderstood the gist of his vision. When he says "no child left behind" he means none of them should be taught to read. Explains a lot.

Once again, thank you seabeyond.

[Comicstripper]

22. Makes me proud to be from Maryland...

WE'RE NUMBER ONE!
(P.S.-Pipkin doesn't stand a snowball's chance in hell against McCulsky)

[Generator]

29. Can we form the educated country?

And they can have the stupid one. I mean it. This is something that honestly gets me and my husband thinking of leaving because we value education so much.

This country values what exactly?

Kerry should be leading by 80% and we all know it. He is superior in every quality: height (okay that's mine, I always go for the taller man, so shoot me, they usually can err Kerry more and see farther) education, experience, intelligence, and general humanity.

[yardwork]

32. There are so many PhDs in my area I inevitably meet some conservative ones

but I've noticed something about the intelligent, highly-educated conservatives. They usually have serious mental issues, like anxiety, that are untreated. These issues make them susceptible to being controlled by outside groups, like fundamentalist churches and Republican scare-tactics.

So I would say it is a combination of variables including education, intelligence, and mental health. A low score in any of three makes a person susceptible to being a Republican.

Hence, Republican policies tend to keep people poor, uneducated, and without access to health care. They're clever enough to do that.

[ICT Liberal]

34. Proud to be a member of that small 5% in KS (#4)

There aren't many of us here; but at least we can mock the Rethuglicans without them understanding what we're saying.

[newyawker99]

35. Hi ICT Liberal!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[LoZoccolo]

36. They don't care, they just go call us "elitists". n/t

[PurityOfEssence]

37. America is more deeply anti-intellectual than anti- anything else,

and always has been. It's part of the common man, classless ethos of the country. Please don't mention it; it will make it an even harder row to hoe for our boy.

[Francine Frensky]

40. Look at how weird Arkansas is:

from memory since I've left that site, but both grad school and no college columns are blue for Kerry, but overall arkansas is red. What gives?

[Coyote_Bandit]

52. Small State in Terms of Population

with several large corporations - Wal-Mart, Tyson, Dillards Department Stores, JB Hunt Trucking, Stephens Investments, etc. Most of the well-educated are working in cushy corporate positions.

While there are lots of colleges there is only one university of any significant size in the state - the University of Arkansas in Fayetteville. Many of the smaller colleges are religious institutions - John Brown University, Harding, Ouchita Baptist University, etc.

Among the well-educated population in the state there is disproportionate representation in the state among those working in Christian educational institutions and in large republican oriented businesses.

So far as I can tell this explains why educated does not necessariy mean liberal in Arkansas.

[AntiCoup2K4]

42. How darre you say us FReepers ain't edumucated!

Listen I got a BS in Racism Studies from Bob Jones University goddammit, and I resent the implicashun that edumacated folks cain't vote for The Greatest President In The History of White Christian America, George Duhbya Bush :mad:

[Jeff in Cincinnati]

46. Bush KILLS among Iraqi civilians

Really. I mean really, really kills.

[Braunschweiger Bone]

50. No surprise...

educated people are smart!

[Anarcho-Socialist]

53. How long would it take to post this link at FR before being banned?

:shrug: :bounce: :P