Dean: "This is our country, it's not their country."

[DoveTurnedHawk]

"The reason that all those folks are coming at us debate after debate, newspaper column after newspaper column, is because they're afraid," Dr. Dean said Monday as he charged across Iowa in full fighter mode. "They're afraid of having ordinary people run their country. This is our country, it's not their country."

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/01/13/politics/campaigns/13DEAN.html

Maybe the reason people are going after Dean is because he's not a very electable candidate for the Democratic Party to run for President. Maybe it's not just the country of Howard Dean and his supporters. Maybe it's "our" country as well.

DTH

[mouse7]

1. Dean +2 in latest gallup poll.

Kerry -2. All dems over 40% vs Bush

[kayleybeth]

16. So does that mean this isn't my country?

I'm not sure what you're getting at.

[cprise]

25. It means the country ought not belong to media and oil corporations

.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

32. Yeah, Sure That's What It Means

I think the meaning of what Dean said is quite clear, tortuous interpretations of the English language notwithstanding.

DTH

[dajabr]

2. I'm suprised...

That you would defend the power grabbers/hoarders, whore media and pundits like this.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

4. I'm Defending the DEMOCRATS That Dean Is Attacking

And I'm defending the right of Democrats other than Dean to maintain a piece of this country, too.

DTH

[Printer70]

12. Actually Dean is being inclusive, you're being divisive

He's trying to reclaim it from Falwell and Limbaugh and your standing in the way. The flag belongs to all of us not those who use it to whip up fervor for war. One day, Clark will learn this lesson too. Or maybe he'll just go back to the military-industrial complex as a lobbyist or cure the bloodlust with more war planning.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

70. No. I feel he is being divisive.

I am an ordinary American who prefers another Democrat.
Yet more obnoxious presumption from Dean.

[Clark Can WIN]

75. I missed the debate

with Fallwell and Libaugh. Which Democratic debate was that?

Deans support of the war must be hard for all of you to reconcile now. Since he did support a resolution for force. Maybe after the primaries he can go back to Vermont and continue to teach white people about race.

[bowens43]

61. Evidence that Dean is attacking Democrats, got any?

No? I didn't think so.

Next.

[RetroLounge]

67. You guys would defend Jack the Ripper

if he was anti-Dean.

Posting newsmax, drudge, coulter, et.al. to back up your agendas.

It's truly sad...

[hellhathnofury]

5. It's desperation time.

How the greatest grassroots campaign in history isn't returning government to the people is beyond me.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

7. Last I Checked, Al Sharpton Was Not Afraid of "Ordinary People"

Last I checked, this country also belongs to supporters of candidates other than Dean.

DTH

[hellhathnofury]

13. Last time I checked Al had as much credibility as

a schoolyard bully.

He's a self-promoting fool, look at how he's spent his campaign money, $4000 for one night in a hotel. Give me a break.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

19. Oh, I Forgot, Everyone Is Foolish Except Dean

Are we going to have some Dean clapping now?

Suddenly Sobelson is interrupted by a wave of slow clapping that builds in intensity, the same kind of inspiration clap the Dean staff does at the office. What will happen at midnight?

"Many Dean claps, some serious Dean clapping," says Sobelson, "chanting, singing, clapping, you never know."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A8439-2004Jan11_3.html

DTH

[hellhathnofury]

23. You know someone has to be clapping...

I think that might be a nice cross section of America. People-powered Howard.

HIPPIE DEANNIES GO HOME!

[wtmusic]

28. Do you kiss that quote before you go to bed?

?

[DoveTurnedHawk]

30. Yes, and I Hug It and Call It George

It's just so cuddly!

DTH

[The Mighty Boot]

29. Yeah, what he said!

[Printer70]

18. Stop spinning

Dean was referring to "our" country, meaning Democrats. He's going to include us after years of being given the sense that the flag didn't belong to us. Stop twisting his words. It reflects poorly on you and the community of Clark supporters.

[janx]

71. Actually, I think he was referring to the American people.

He has said this over and over from the start. That someone twists it into something else is very sad and desperate.

[bowens43]

60. Wow....

Is this the best you can do for your empty uniform candidate? This attack would be funny if it wasn't so pathetic.

[mouse7]

8. Because it isn't putting DoveTurnedHawk personally in power?

Ya got me.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

14. Damn, You Got Me, My Maniacal Plan for World Domination Has Been Exposed

"And I would've gotten away with it too, if it hadn't been for you darn kids!"

DTH

[mouse7]

20. Roobie-roobie-roo!

[Printer70]

15. I'm not

Who you support says a lot about which sources you'll trust. I wouldn't be surprised if we get more posts by WashTimes, etc. from Clark supporters and more posts from IndyMedia by Dean supporters.

[sandnsea]

17. I am NOT a power grabber/hoarder, whore media pundit

I'm a 46 year old Democrat from a family of union Democrats. I do not want Howard Dean and there isn't anything fearful or sinister about it. Please stop berating supporters of other candidates and putting all of us into one broad category. We just don't like Dean, it's that simple.

[Name removed]

3. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

6. I've got news for Dr. Dean: I'm ordinary and you are not.

And this ordinary person is afraid of having that unordinary person running OUR country. Because call me old-fashioned but I think it belongs to all of us.

[sandnsea]

10. Me too

I have every right to try to stop Dean if I don't want him as President. I'm tired of Howard trying to intimidate people like me into not expressing my views of where the Democratic Party should be headed.

[JVS]

9. yawn

[kayleybeth]

11. So because I support someone other than Dean

this is not my country? Daaaaaaaammmmmmmmnnnn. But, before I rush to judgement, I've got to admit I'm not subscribed to the NYT site so I didn't read the whole article. What's the context? Did he say something before or after this remark that might change the meaning?

[sandnsea]

21. It's his long standing rant

Any time he goes down in the polls, he has a standard routine of responses. Rally the supporters by telling them the establishment is out to get him and/or them, have them give money. Whine about being attacked and have supporters give money. Followed by a call for unity and have supporters give money.

Then throw out the IWR card, attack and repeat the above.

[hellhathnofury]

24. Check post 1. Up is down though in Kerry's head I suppose.

[BeyondGeography]

22. I'd like to thank Dr. Dean

for making me feel extra-ordinary.

[unfrigginreal]

26. But you already knew that, right?

:eyes:

[slinkerwink]

27. um he's also talking about the republicans.....

what a way to spin a great quote.....:yourock:

[wtmusic]

31. welcome back sw

be careful...the knives are out! ;-)

[kayleybeth]

33. "Also" talking about the republicans?

So neither Republicans or non-Dean supporters have any claim to this country? Only Dean and his supporters? Great! I'll make sure and spread the word!

[slinkerwink]

34. just you know, supporters of the status quo

I pretty much see Edwards, Clark, Kerry, Lieberman, and Gephardt as being a part of the status quo.

[kayleybeth]

35. So this is not Clark's country? Or Kerry's? Or Lieberman's? Or Gep's?

Gotcha. Thanks for clarifying!

[dkf]

36. It's not one person's country. It belongs to all of us.

Which is exactly Dean's point.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

37. Except "Us" in Dean's World Apparently Does Not Include Loyal Dems

Like Kerry, Sharpton and their supporters.

Fuck that.

DTH

[hellhathnofury]

38. They put me before us.

Kerry IWR.
Sharpton Race-baiting.

He's not referring to the supporters at all. He's talking about the influence peddlers and Falwells.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

39. What a Bizarre Interpretation!

"They" refers to the people who've been attacking him in debates. It's crystal clear. It's not "their" country is also quite clear.

Dean is not talking about Falwell. Dean is talking about loyal Democrats.

DTH

[hellhathnofury]

41. Loyal Democrats who sold the country down the river out of fear.

I killed your examples.

[kayleybeth]

42. That's not the way I read it

but admittedly, I didn't read the whole article (I'm not subscribed to the NY Times site). If you can put Dean's remarks in context and support your claim, please do.

[hellhathnofury]

43. free registration, takes 2 seconds.

[kayleybeth]

45. I don't wish to subscribe to the NYT site

but you're allowed to quote up to 4 paragraphs per DU rules. I wish someone would. I'd like to see the quote in context.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

44. That Paragraph Is All of His Quoted Material in That Subsection

There is no other relevant context, IMO:

At the same time, advisers debated what — if anything — they needed to do to deal with General Clark's success in New Hampshire. One Dean adviser likened the retired military man's performance to Dr. Dean's early rise in the polls last year that went unnoticed and largely unchecked by Mr. Kerry, who at the time was the dominant candidate.

"The reason that all those folks are coming at us debate after debate, newspaper column after newspaper column, is because they're afraid," Dr. Dean said Monday as he charged across Iowa in full fighter mode. "They're afraid of having ordinary people run their country. This is our country, it's not their country."

This difficult period comes as Dr. Dean's almost nonstop year of campaigning appears to be taking a toll. He seemed tired and rattled on Monday morning, as he did at the debate, and stumbled over a few words at several smaller gatherings as he recited yet again the sound bites he has repeated easily 1,000 times. But by evening, as he roused a crowd at a spaghetti dinner in Fort Madison, he seemed back on his game, and indeed delivered his fuller speech.

DTH

[hellhathnofury]

47. Nice.

"I am rejuvenated and ready to fight," he said. "When people attack me, that rejuvenates me."

Dr. Dean's advisers said Monday that they were neither surprised nor worried about the suddenly stormy climate.

"Of course it's going to have an effect," said Joe Trippi, Dr. Dean's campaign manager. "Who can get hammered this long without it having some effect?"

[DoveTurnedHawk]

50. So? If Anything That Supports MY Point.

It's further attenuated, but it's clear he's talking about the people who've been attacking him, and it's even more clear that his quote about "our" country was referring to them, and not to oil companies or other such nonsense.

DTH

[hellhathnofury]

51. We've been getting hit by RoveBush too, Club for Growth?

We're taking it from every side imaginable, all desperate to shut his roots out.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

52. This Whole Story Is About the DEM Primary

It's not about C4G or Bush. :eyes:

DTH

[hellhathnofury]

53. We'll they've inserted themselves into it. Don't deny reality.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

55. You're Trying to Claim Dean's Referring to C4G or Bush

And you're saying for ME not to deny reality?

:eyes:

DTH

[hellhathnofury]

56. Both. It's about all of us who aren't the power elite,

the citizens of America.

This campaign is about empowering the average American to make change, to participate again in a meaningful fashion, it's about democracy.

[kayleybeth]

57. that's not the way it reads, cynicalSOB1

I've now read the remarks in context and it reads like he's telling anyone who's not a Dean supporter that this is not their country. That oughta go over real well with the swing voters.

[hellhathnofury]

72. I suggest thinking about the context of this campaign,

the 550,000 supporters and 170,000 volunteers are all average Americans. We aren't just taking the country back from the appeasers, Pharisees, and influence peddlers, we're taking it back for America.

This is a people's campaign.

[oasis]

40. "afraid to have ordinary people run the country"maybe. Fear of Bush

trouncing Dean is, without a doubt, of greater concern.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

48. Yup, Absolutely

Dean is either too arrogant to see that, or he's acting like a demogogue to his supporters, firing them up with BS and continuing to be as divisive as he always has been.

DTH

[stickdog]

58. Yes. It's fear. I don't get it. There's not a shred of evidence that says

Dean is not an electable candidate. There are only fears. The same fears that led to our defeat in 2002 and our lying down on the IWR before that.

Dean's taking it to Bush. Sorry, oasis, but the American electorate needs to be hit on the head with a blunt instrument and that instrument is going to be Howard Dean.

[maddezmom]

46. "Several Dean advisers said that they remained confident of victory ....

not because of their candidate, but rather because of the campaign organization he had assembled. Mr. Trippi pointed to the extensive get-out-the-vote operation Dr. Dean has put together in New Hampshire and Iowa, as well as the intensity of his supporters, factors that many Democrats say continue to give Dr. Dean a big edge in both these states."

So is Dr. Dean the best candidate or has the best machine?

[hellhathnofury]

49. The best candidate built the best machine in this case.

The machine reflects the candidate and I like this machine.

[ThirdWheelLegend]

54. Who is "They" and "their"

Since his most of Dean's policy stances are closer to Bush than to Kucinich, who is Dean referring to as 'they' and 'their'? Progressives?

:)

TWL

[stickdog]

59. Communists? (nt)

[maddezmom]

63. they and their

would be anyone not supporting Dean in the primary season.

[Gore1FL]

62. I take turns defending various candidates

being undecided (but forced to choose really soon).

To attack Dean over Semantics is preposterous, especially when you know what he meant.

There are plenty of reasons to like and dislike Dean. the same is true with all of the candidates.

So instead of pulling quotes that will do little more than start a huge fight over a non-issue phrase that at some level people agree with, is well, not pulling me any farther awy from Dean or any closer to any other candidate.

I strongly suggest, if you really wish to convince me to vote for someone, that you try to get me to vote FOR someone and not AGAINST several others.

While statements like these can obvuosly be blown out of proportion, as evidenced in this very thread, it is quite clear that the rebuke is against people who claim sole ownership of the country (see also Republicans wrapping themselves in the flag) -- something that we all agree on.

So as an undecided MO caucus voter, I have to tell you, the entire issue here is slightly more relevant than bullshit.

If you MUST convince me to vote for someone because everyone else sucks ( a really time-consuming, innefficient, and often double-edged method of persuasion) at least come up with something real.

[quaker bill]

66. Thanks

Now I don't have to bother. You are correct, Dean is speaking more inclusively, and his assault is aimed at the republican/corporate nexus.

He has always said that win or lose, he will work hard for the nominee. This statement is intended in that spirit.

[Cheswick2.0]

64. psssssssssttttt...... he is talking about special interests and the pugs

It's very telling that the Clark supporters assume that means them. Hey, you guys, way to claim the crime!}(

[jonnyblitz]

65. lol

:crazy: :crazy:

[JNelson6563]

68. nice meme work

So, since you admitted your loathing of Dean recently, will you do all you can to hinder the Dem party if he wins the nom?

Julie

[KittyWampus]

69. Nothing Like Appealing To The Reptilian Part Of Our Brain

You know the part focused entirely on Survival.

Us versus Them.

Dean is not a uniter. That's for certain.

[revcarol]

74. The statement sounds very Bush-like.

"Us versus them."

Dean is losing it.

[Clark Can WIN]

73. Dean the Uniter does it again

What a bad fucking joke. No wonder they made him go home and take a nap.

It's really great that a draft dodger has the moxie to tell two veterans and others who have have given years of service to the Democratic party that this is NOT THEIR COUNTRY.

I hope this is on every fucking channel in the country.

[robbedvoter]

76. Reminds me of Pat Buchanan speech at the 91 convention? (88?)

When he started with us vs them, I immediately knew I wanted to be "them"
Also, didn't Poppy say that atheists are not Americans?
Now, anyone that doesn't worship at the altar of HD is out of a country? Geex, he's moving faster than W! (I'm sure that W has a plan in place, but he ain't saying it before the elections, cuz he has a Karl and not merely a Gina)

[hellhathnofury]

77. What were you doing at the 91 convention?

We'll if your part of the power-elite then I suppose your "them."

Democrats v. Republicans seems to be "us vs them"