Right Wing Bloggers claim that Kerry Praised Tora Bora Strategy

[liberalpragmatist]

From December 2001:

"But for the moment, what we are doing, I think, is having its impact and it is the best way to protect our troops and sort of minimalize the proximity, if you will. I think we have been doing this pretty effectively and we should continue to do it that way." - John Kerry, discussing the tactic of outsourcing the capture of Osama bin Laden to local warlords at the time.

http://cnnstudentnews.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0112/14/lkl.00.html

I read this off of Andrew Sullivan (www.andrewsullivan.com) b/w of Kaus, by way of some other right-wing blogger.

ON EDIT: Fuller excerpt, not nearly so damaging:

CALLER: Hello. Yes, I would like to ask the panel why they don't use napalm or flamethrowers on those tunnels and caves up there in Afghanistan?

KING: Senator Kerry?

CALLER: My golly, I think they could smoke him out.

KING: Senator Kerry?

KERRY: Well, I think it depends on where you are tactically. They may well be doing that at some point in time. But for the moment, what we are doing, I think, is having its impact and it is the best way to protect our troops and sort of minimalize the proximity, if you will. I think we have been doing this pretty effectively and we should continue to do it that way.

KING: Congressman Cunningham, what do you think of that question?

CUNNINGHAM: I think Senator Kerry is right on the mark. To use a flamethrower, you've got to get right into the area close in. And plus, it doesn't penetrate that deep in those tunnels. You've got to go in there after him. So I think you have to neutralize that threat. And then you can get him out in a lot of different, various ways including what the gentleman spoke about.

KING: General Joulwan, what are your thoughts?

JOULWAN: Well, I think what you are seeing here are laser- designated bombs going in that are highly effective. In fact, I think much more effective than napalm will be given the extent of these tunnels. You may see some of this when the troops get in there, you have troops on the ground. But right now, I think the laser- designated bombs are doing a great job.

[oregon_dem1]

1. If you don't want this to get out,

why did you put it here?

[liberalpragmatist]

2. b/c I want suggestions for how to respond

nt

[montana500]

6. no offense man

but take the toughtful liberal act out of this election.

That act doesnt win elections.

[papau]

35. Perhaps a 12/14 discussion of what happened Nov 14 to Dec14 is not

an endorsement of anything more than the idea of using bombs rather than flame throwers? A discussion of tactics being used on Dec 14?

The caller did not ask about Bush using the Pashay warlord Hazret Ali and the Khugani warlord Ghamsharik, who did not even have the support of his own Afghan tribesmen - folks proud to admit that they worked for Al Qaeda inside the Tora Bora base as well as in several nearby bases. And of course Bush had straight out Osama supporter Khalis, who had been temporarily handed the key to Jalalabad when the Taliban vacated, who's personal military commander, Awol Gul, retained the heavy fighting equipment, and was traveling to and from Tora Bora beginning Nov. 13, according to Ghamsharik.

And General Franks today before the 04 election says Osama was not there in Nov 01 but on Nov 29 Cheney told ABC's "Primetime Live" that, according to the reports that were coming in, bin Laden was in Tora Bora - and indeed later we find that somewhere between Nov. 28 to Nov. 30 Osama walked out of Tora Bora.

[rooboy]

3. He was answering a question about using FLAMETHROWERS or NAPALM...

there was nothing in the question about 'outsourcing' the capture of bin Laden.

[tritsofme]

10. Exactly

It has nothing to do with anything Kerry has said recently.

[liberalpragmatist]

13. Actually that's a good point

I think I'll post a fuller excerpt

[A-Schwarzenegger]

14. In other words, you didnt even READ what you effing posted,

or its context.

KING: Mount Holly Springs, Pennsylvania -- hello.

CALLER: Hello. Yes, I would like to ask the panel why they don't use napalm or flamethrowers on those tunnels and caves up there in Afghanistan?

KING: Senator Kerry?

CALLER: My golly, I think they could smoke him out.

KING: Senator Kerry?

KERRY: Well, I think it depends on where you are tactically. They may well be doing that at some point in time. But for the moment, what we are doing, I think, is having its impact and it is the best way to protect our troops and sort of minimalize the proximity, if you will. I think we have been doing this pretty effectively and we should continue to do it that way.

KING: Congressman Cunningham, what do you think of that question?

CUNNINGHAM: I think Senator Kerry is right on the mark. To use a flamethrower, you've got to get right into the area close in. And plus, it doesn't penetrate that deep in those tunnels. You've got to go in there after him. So I think you have to neutralize that threat. And then you can get him out in a lot of different, various ways including what the gentleman spoke about.

KING: General Joulwan, what are your thoughts?

JOULWAN: Well, I think what you are seeing here are laser- designated bombs going in that are highly effective. In fact, I think much more effective than napalm will be given the extent of these tunnels. You may see some of this when the troops get in there, you have troops on the ground. But right now, I think the laser- designated bombs are doing a great job.

[liberalpragmatist]

15. Sorry

I went to the CNN link and read the statement, but you're right, I did obviously not pick up on the napalm thing.

[The Magistrate]

20. This, Sir, is A Mere Endorsement Of Aerial Bombardment

It says nothing about who it would be best to have hold the cordon, and go in close when required.

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

[AirAmFan]

4. December 2001 was pretty early in the fight. Didn't it take months more

to corner OBL in Tora Bora? As I recall, his escape occurred well into the following year. A true Kerry "gotcha" is not going to be this easy. Of course, the Republicans can and will just keep making stuff up.

[Eye and Monkey]

18. Actually, Tora Bora was on-going during this discusssion

The discussion is 14 Dec 01, Tora Bora was being bombarded.

http://archives.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/asiapcf/central/12/19/ret.robertson.otsc/

[Name removed]

26. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[montana500]

5. Wow. Well it's out now, genius.

Thanks for providing these on a platter to the freeprs. Im sure it will be all over the blogs by tomorrow.

WOW.

Delete this post if you can.

[liberalpragmatist]

7. It's already on the rightwing blogosphere

on Kaus and on Sully. Making ONE DU thread isn't going to spread it far and wide among the right wing.

We should know what shit they're gonna fling at us.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

17. I dont care how the fuck far it gets out.

What, that Kerry is for or against flamethrowers in caves?
I can not see how you ACCIDENTALLY misunderstood that quote
to be about OUTSOURCING the job to get Osama.

[JI7]

8. so post it on a political forum if you don't want it out ?

[JPJones]

9. How about the full quote?

He was commenting on cave-to-cave combat, not surrounding Tora Bora and 'closing the gate'. Notice he says that they may need to do cave-to-cave combat at some point. And notice what 'Duke' Cunningham, (wingnut, CA) says.

CALLER: Hello. Yes, I would like to ask the panel why they don't use napalm or flamethrowers on those tunnels and caves up there in Afghanistan?

KING: Senator Kerry?

CALLER: My golly, I think they could smoke him out.

KING: Senator Kerry?

KERRY: Well, I think it depends on where you are tactically. They may well be doing that at some point in time. But for the moment, what we are doing, I think, is having its impact and it is the best way to protect our troops and sort of minimalize the proximity, if you will. I think we have been doing this pretty effectively and we should continue to do it that way.

KING: Congressman Cunningham, what do you think of that question?

CUNNINGHAM: I think Senator Kerry is right on the mark. To use a flamethrower, you've got to get right into the area close in. And plus, it doesn't penetrate that deep in those tunnels. You've got to go in there after him. So I think you have to neutralize that threat. And then you can get him out in a lot of different, various ways including what the gentleman spoke about.

[zach]

12. Yeah

I agree... Read the whole quote in it's entirety. It isn't a big deal at all. Thanks for pointing that out JPJones.

[nonconformist]

11. Your answer is right in the transcripts - did you read it?

CALLER: Hello. Yes, I would like to ask the panel why they don't use napalm or flamethrowers on those tunnels and caves up there in Afghanistan?

KING: Senator Kerry?

CALLER: My golly, I think they could smoke him out.

KING: Senator Kerry?

KERRY: Well, I think it depends on where you are tactically. They may well be doing that at some point in time. But for the moment, what we are doing, I think, is having its impact and it is the best way to protect our troops and sort of minimalize the proximity, if you will. I think we have been doing this pretty effectively and we should continue to do it that way.

_______________________________________________


This is a non-issue.

[NDFan]

16. Uh oh?

The caller is advocating for use of bombs to blew up the caves, to "smoke" bin Laden out.

You have to remember, we were barely 2 months into the Afghanistan mission. The date of this Larry King, December 14th, was the day we learned Osama and his cohorts were surrounded in Toro Bora.

http://archives.cnn.com/2001/US/12/14/gen.war.against.terror/

http://www.usatoday.com/news/sept11/2001/12/14/bush-binladen.htm

Said Kerry:

Well, I think it depends on where you are tactically.They may well be doing that at some point in time. But for the moment...

[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[NDFan]

28. .

But no one knew that until early 2002.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

19. "Right Wing Bloggers claim that Kerry Praised Tora Bora Strategy"

That STILL implies that there is something wrong or compromising
about what Kerry said about FLAMETHROWERS. Fuck your Right Wing
Bloggers.

[Eye and Monkey]

21. Right Wing Bloggers Say Bush Strategy Failed

Right Wing Bloggers Claim that Kerry Supported the pResident During War

Right Wing Bloggers Give Bush Pass, Blame Kerry for Bush's Decisions

[w4rma]

22. Those nutjobs LIVE on taking things out of context. (nt)

[JPJones]

23. It's a skill they learned in Bible study classes. Example -

http://www.raptureready.com/republican.html

"The Democratic Party continues to be led by those who believe pacifism is the easiest pathway to world peace. They constantly do all within their power to support legislative action designed to disarm the military of the US and the American public. Again, that woolly-minded leadership violates basic biblical precepts. Jesus spoke about being vigilant and prepared to defend one's home: "Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house" (Matt. 12:29). "

Except that if you read the Bible verse, the strong man is Satan, and Jesus is the one who ties him up. So, the fundies are saying here that the US is Satan, and that we must protect ourselves from Jesus.

[bush equals idiot]

24. I don't believe Kerry was president when he was on Larry King.

You know receiving those pesky daily intelligence briefings and all. Or that he was psychic to know knuckle dragger was going to pull all the troops down to Iraq.

It was that old... I want to kill Saddam ploy. Forward and onward to Iraq. Who could conceive we had a nut case in the White House.

[Chomskyite]

27. I read this on the Kaus files

I mean, only the part Kaus excerpted. I admit when I read that I thought, "Uh oh."

Now this DU poster has kindly found the whole segment.

Looks to me like the Kaus selective excerpting is the ultimate example of "taken out of context." Wow does this expose Kaus for the fool he is . . . but then we knew Kaus was a fool already.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

29. "Now this DU poster has kindly found the whole segment."

LOFL.

[papau]

36. Klaus is a fool - and by taking a partial excerpt - a liar for the right!

But we knew that!

:-)

[LynnTheDem]

30. Rightwingnuts are ALWAYS WRONG. They LIE. ALWAYS.

But for the moment, what we are doing, I think, is having its impact and it is the best way to protect our troops and sort of minimalize the proximity, if you will. I think we have been doing this pretty effectively and we should continue to do it that way."

- John Kerry, discussing the tactic of outsourcing the capture of Osama bin Laden to local warlords at the time.

WRONG.

Kerry was NOT discussing ]ANYTHING WHATSOEVER to do with outsourcing to local warlords.

And ONLY A TOTAL IDIOT would think he was. Or a STUPID LYING RIGHTWINGNUT.

And they're ONLY FOOLING THEMSELVES.

HOW STUPID IS THAT???!!

[A-Schwarzenegger]

31. Tell it!!!

[LynnTheDem]

32. I just get so BLOODY ANNOYED

that these insufferable ignorant little dicks think WE ARE ALL AS STUPID as THEY are!!!

The transcript VERY CLEARLY SHOWS that Kerry was NOT talking about anything whatsoever to do with any type of outsourcing of anything to anyone!

And the rightwingnut who posted this bullshit KNEW THIS!!!

He KNEW IT because he had to READ THE ORIGINAL TRANSCRIPT to find Kerry's words and to deliberately LIE. SO HE KNEW HE WAS LYING about Kerry.

Just like Ted Sampley KNOWS HE'S LYING and the SB Liars KNOW THEY'RE LYING when they cut off the first half of Kerry's sentance; THEY HAD TO KNOW because they HAD TO READ KERRY'S ENTIRE SENTANCE FIRST in order to know where to cut off the first half of his actual sentance!!!

THEY KNOW THEY ARE LYING!

And then to see people on this board who SHOULD KNOW BETTER BY NOW believing this shit by defending Kerry....

ARRRRRRGH!!!

WHAT the HELL will it take before everyone not a rightwingnut realizes that RIGHTWINGNUTS LIE LIE LIE LIE LIE and LIE!!!

ALWAYS CHECK FIRST FOR YOURSELF. DO NOT EVER take the words of ANY rightwingnut at face value! THEY DO; that's why THEY are SO STUPID and ALWAYS WRONG.

Whew. That felt damn good. :)

[A-Schwarzenegger]

33. That's why I told you to tell it!!!

I'm getting so goddamn intolerant of even the
slightest bit of bullshit from those a-holes. Of course
they know theyre lying. The world is going to explode
from their bullshit. When Bush says Kerry will "say anything"
to get elected, and I know Bush is a man who is rotting
to death before our very eyes from the corruptive acids
of his own lies, I just want to ... Well you know. The
closer we get to this election I just have this feeling
something is going to blow wide open from all the RW bullshit.

[LittleClarkie]

34. Made me go back and find the Men's Journal article

On an old version of Kerry's site, which was written just as Tora Bora was ending. Here's the pertinent exerpt from Men's Journal somewhere around September of 2002. That, my friends, is how long he's been beating the Tora Bora drum.

http://web.archive.org/web/20020910104925/www.johnkerry.com/site/PageServer?pagename=news_2002_0827a

From "A Lighter Side of John Kerry"
By Jonathan Miles

<snip>
"Kerry reads the morning papers as quickly as he does everything else, meaning very quickly, muttering as he flips the pages ("Well, that's not good"), but this morning's grim headlines are stalling him: Colin Powell's Mideast peace mission appears to be floundering, the Boston priest scandal is unraveling, and, worst of all, the Post is reporting that U.S. forces somehow allowed Osama bin Laden to escape during the Tora Bora offensive in Afghanistan, something Kerry had been fearing. Kerry grabs his cell phone, dialing as he reads. "Did you see my story in the Post?" he says to a press aide on the other end. "Top of the fold, page one right." He reads bits of it aloud, sentence after sentence seeming to further stoke his anger; this was the worst-case scenario of a military strategy that Kerry had been quietly criticizing for months. "They let him go," he says. "It's disgraceful."


Swearing softly as we slow through a construction zone, Kerry tells me, by way of explanation, "I've been saying this privately for months now, and my staff at times has had to restrain me. They talk tough, but it's a risk-averse strategy. Bush gets daily briefings, for God's sake. He should be saying, 'Do we need more troops there, here, where? Do we need more firepower?' " He gazes out the car window as the Capitol comes into view. "Osama bin Laden got away," he says glumly. Pause. "You'd think they've learned some lessons in Vietnam."

<snip>