Anyone that votes for Shrub is just as guilty as him.

[life_long_dem]

This is for any lurkers, please change your mind....

If you support chimpy, and you know about all the BS that is involved with Iraq WMD, 9/11, Osama, Saudi Arabia, voter problems, flu vaccine, Abu Gareb, Haliburton, etc...

You are just as responsible when all the shit finally comes out.
Have a conscience, VOTE for Kerry.

[JuniorPlankton]

1. amen!

[cali]

2. Don't agree

I reject simplistic statements such as this. I don't live in a black and white world. I refuse to condemn people on this basis.

[life_long_dem]

3. Free speech is great.

We both have opinions, whether we agree or not.

I was merely pointing out that morally they are guilty, not literally, I don't expect any voters to be responsible in court.

Lighten up a bit..

[cali]

10. Free speech is great

I was speaking morally too. I can't make a judgement as to the moral culpability of millions of people who vote for bush. You do realize that they make the same judgement about us?

[Skittles]

22. I can

THEY SUCK

[Karenina]

41. And...

need to have their asses KICKED! :evilgrin: :kick:

[Minimus]

38. yes they do - they claim we are baby killers because we support pro-choice

but they never seem to realize that pro-choice does not mean "hey everybody go get an abortion"

I can and do judge the "moral culpability" of bush supporters and I often ask my RW co-workers how they sleep at night.

[Karenina]

43. And correct speech...

as *HE (is). :spank: (That's me admonishing myself. It's a pet peeve. I tried to hold back, I really, REALLY did... Must be some Halloween hex on me and my keyboard).

LOOKEE HERE, KIDS. Y'all CITIZENS done had a "free pass" wit the ROTW up 'til now. You don't run these *assholes out of town on on a rail, your asses is desert grasses. BANK ON IT.

[leftofthedial]

8. good german, good german

you either support fascism or you oppose it.

when it was just conservative versus liberal, it was a highly nuanced, subjective thing.

Now, however, it is a black and white issue.

[cali]

11. That's right.

I'm just a goose stepping nazi. Try again.

[leftofthedial]

17. no need to try again

One either supports fascism or one does not.

I have no idea what you are.

but I do know what a bush supporter is.

[cali]

18. Let me tell you what I am

I'm a relativist, a secular humanist, a devotee of E.M. Forester's philosophy on democracy. I understand that we view the world through the prism of our experiences and individual hardwiring. I believe profoundly in the theory of apparent paradox- wherein two seemingly irreconcilable truths co-exist within the same space/time frame. I know that things aren't as clear cut as "one either supports facism or one does not" when speaking in reference to bush voters. In fact, you sound like a freeper when you spout such absolutes. Yeats wrote that "The worst are filled with passionate intensity while the best lack all conviction." I try to remember that. There, now you should have a pretty good idea who, and what, I am.

[leftofthedial]

19. thanks for the manifesto

"First they came for the relativists . . . "

[Sideways]

27. Where has the relativist gone?

He/she doesn't like the truth?

[Karenina]

42. WOOOOO-HOOOOO!!!

HI MARY T!!!! :hi: :loveya: :hi:

[Sideways]

25. Hooey Alert.....I Smell A Big Stink ....You've Been On My Last Nerve

For a few days now. My buddy leftofthedial just spoke my mind. Who do you think you are foolin relativist and humanist? You are not as stealth and clever as you think. Some of us have real keen olfactory senses.

edit: slight typo because you make me crazy

[cali]

39. Well, I haven't even noticed you

until now. And you better steel your nerve or put me on ignore. When I have something to say, I'll say it. Congratulations on your keen olfactory senses, but if it's troll you think you smell, you're wrong. Whatever else I may be (possibly rude, definitely irritable, often bad at suffering fools) I'm not stealth. I enjoy expressing my point of view.

[colonel odis]

30. sounds more like a personal ad to me. n/t

[cali]

37. LOL

You're right. It does sound like a personal ad. So much for my 'splainin myself.

[drdigi420]

4. Totally agree

only reasons to be a bush supporter:

1. you are selfish AND make over 200k a year

2. you are an idiot

3. you are so misinformed that you believe rush limbaugh and ann coulter (see #2)

4. you are a terrorist and need bush to keep up your recruiting goals

[kentuck]

5. Of course, we are all responsible for our votes...

ANd if it leads to catastrophe, then we are "guilty" as well. I agree with you.

[Walt Starr]

6. Anybody who votes for Shrub is my mortal enemy

and nothing will ever reconcile those feelings.

[ComerPerro]

7. I won't even qualify it the way you did

I don't care if you know about the BS or not... If you vote for Bush, you are just as responsible as he is.

These people have a choice to educate themselves, to learn about Bush and all the bullshit he is up to. But what do they do? They chose to be lazy, and to arrogantly wave an American flag and call the nonbelievers unpatriotic or even treasonous.

[calimary]

16. I think it could be called - being an enabler.

Can't help it. I lean toward agreeing with this. If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the (bush) PROBLEM.

[TahitiNut]

33. "the solution"?

I fear we only have 'm' linear equations when we have 'n' unknowns, and 'm' << 'n'. If "the solution" were so readily identifiable, 'm' and 'n' would be (nearly?) identical. They're not. Thus, we have "solution cults."

[democratreformed]

9. And if he wins, we will all be held accountable - even if we didn't vote

for. I believe that.

[UTUSN]

12. Here's My Story

A few weeks ago a slacker and I got into a 2 hours discussion over politics. He wasn't taking it seriously, started out by saying that he votes the man (didn't say "or woman"), not the party. But as I countered, he took on other permutations, ending with our old familiar, "they're all the same." His final flourish was to say, "Look, you know good and well that the day after the election, no matter who wins, you and I are still going to be having a beer."

At that point the owner of the place, a dude in his mid-20s took over the shift. He is shipping to Iraq on the 26th of this month. I said to the slacker, "If this dude comes back in a box, if you ever see me here again, don't come up to me, don't talk to me."

Finally, a nerve was struck. He flared up angrily, said, "You CROSSED A LINE! You can't blame me for that just for voting for (Shrub)."

I said, "Oh, yes I can. You've been taking this as a big joke. This is serious. This is exactly what this is about: This dude's life or death. Old people's medications. Other people's making a living."

Alrighty then. Predictably, this was the end of THAT particular conversation.

[umtalal]

14. how about those that do not think the brutal pictures of injured Iraqis

are the doing of Saddam? The US military goes somewhere not to kill but to help, in a certain fundi's opinion.


My conclusion: they are either lazy and/or in denial. And us folks are paying the dear price for their ignorance. And I am not talking about the greedy one's that are in it for the money.

[Justitia]

31. Kudos to you - I feel exactly the same way!

I have a few Bush voters in my life, and there are times I have wanted to scream this at them because I really do feel it.

I have actually screamed it at one of them, while I was in tears, and he finally dropped the cynical / intellectually lazy act.
I could tell I had disturbed him in a way he had not felt before.
(Sounds like your guy telling you that you had "crossed a line")

End of story - without any further persuasion from me, he has self-determined that he is actually more liberal leaning than he previously realized (he researched stuff without my help) and is voting for Kerry this time.

People need to be made to feel uncomfortable for the consequences of their decision - at least once, to make an impact.
If they have a moral compass or conscience they will stop for introspection.
If not, they are a lost cause and a waste of time.

[UTUSN]

44. Good News - The Iraq Dude Got a Pvt RYAN Change of Orders

Doesn't have to go - only surviving son.

[arewenotdemo]

48. good point

[derby378]

13. The "Matrix" scenario

Here's how I look at most Bush voters:

They're like the "average Joes" you see walking down the streets in the Matrix trilogy - most of them are honest, hard-working types who want the best for their families. But let the GOP powers-that-be download their crap into one of these people, and that average Joe becomes a GOP version of Agent Smith - hopefully minus the cool .50-caliber Desert Eagle. In effect, at that point, they are the neo-cons, and the neo-cons are them. And just like in the Matrix films, the real agents leave their surrogates to take the fall.

Until we liberate the minds of Americans enslaved to Bush, we must treat them like we'd treat the GOP itself. Never mind looking for any Architect - it could be Rove, Cheney, Robertson, Wolfowitz, or even Bush himself for all I know or care. Just free the minds now that your own has been liberated.

[ArkDem]

15. Anyone who votes for bush should be tried for

MURDER!

[cali]

23. How

facist of you.

[ArkDem]

24. facist isn't a word.

[cali]

26. Quite right

How fascist of you.

[Sideways]

34. How fascist of you to defend fascism

You are evading avoiding obfuscating the issue cali. Why not just deal?

[cali]

36. I don't think I could have been much clearer.

Hardly evasive. Go back and read what I wrote if you're interested. I did not for one single moment defend fascism. Think about what saying "people who vote for bush should be tried for murder" means. Just think about it.

[ArkDem]

40. Yes I am a proud librafacist

[meow2u3]

20. Smirk himself said "Whoever harbors a terrorist is a terrorist"

By his own words, whoever votes for a terrorist is a terrorist. A vote for Bush is a vote for the terrorists--in the Middle East and the White House!

[Killarney]

21. I agree 100%.

I'm willing to give people who voted for him in 2000 a pass. He came off as a moderate rep., said he wasn't going to national build, said he wouldn't run deficits, etc.

But now he is a proven liar and warmonger and we KNOW, we KNOW that he will involve us in more wars in the next 4 years because of the neocon agenda, so anyone that votes for him this time is just as responsible as he is because they know now what he wants and what he is capable of. The blood of those killed in the next four years will be on the hands of those that support Bush.

[DeepModem Mom]

28. Add the Chicago Trib editorial board, virtually all of our news media...

those who vote only to vote for the candidate who will insure the lowest taxes for themselves, all one-issue gun or abortion or whatever voters, die-hard Naderites -- all who should know better but are so blinded by greed, the cynicism of self-interest, ideology, and/or the need to be macho or the "cool kid" they were not in high school. These people would let what this country is supposed to be slip through our fingers, would destroy the dream of the Founders, in this hour of national peril, with no thought to what they are leaving for our children. Regarding this election, I'm with Bush on one thing -- you're with us, or against us. We save this country, or it's gone.

[foo_bar]

29. shrub doesn't believe in guilt

His followers are Vogons.

[colonel odis]

32. i believe, especially in an election as heated as this one, that you're

saying a lot about yourself with your vote.

if you want to vote for bush, go right ahead. our two-party system is one of the things that makes this country great. but to me, you're saying that you support the things bush supports. and if you do that, then you're no friend of mine and the things you support are harmful to the country i love.

don't expect me to patronize your business. don't expect an invitation to my home or for me to attend your neighborhood block party. to reference an earlier post, don't expect me to have a beer with you the day after the election.

expect a stare that looks through you and beyond you if you're ever in my face. expect nothing from me because to me you don't exist.

just my opinion.

[Sideways]

35. Kick This Is A Good Thread

YMMV

[Cha]

45. I agree...and there's going to be a lot

of guilty shits out there.

[orpupilofnature57]

46. Actually worse,he's a product of generational corporate workfare

And being that he's never wrong, it must be the idiots that facilitated * and his ilk.

[wrate]

47. Agreed, with the right to vote comes GREAT RESPONSIBILITY. n/t