After deeply reconsidering Dean, I choose. . .

[skjpm]

Dean. I've moved into a more mature relationship with him. I see his flaws. I agree he makes gaffes. I think he waffles on important issues. But I still think he's the best candidate. I like his anger and his honesty. And I firmly believe that as President, he will support the policies I want my President to support. And I think he will have good judgment about foriegn policy.

Edwards is my second choice. I like him a lot. But I still like Dean better. I like everybody but Liebermann and Clark. L. for obvious reasons, Clark because I see him as an interloper, and all things being equal, I'd rather give my vote to a lifelong Democrat. Being a general doesn't mean anything at all to me. I think that being a governor or senator is sufficient experience.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

1. I knew you would say this but good for you anyway

I believe Dean captures the mood of many Dems and has a lot of appeal.
Kerry's got us "cold and angry" Dems all fired up too.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

11. Your best post ever.

On many levels.

[slinkerwink]

2. good for you!

:hi:

[Name removed]

3. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Maddy McCall]

4. Welcome to DU, Bluto

I agree...his arrogance won't play well with the general electorate.

Welcome to DU :hi:

5. Bush's arrogance

seemed to play pretty well with the electorate.

[beaconess]

17. True

But the portion of the electorate that like Bush's arrogance are not going to switch to Dean. So no one should assume that Dean's arrogance is going to get him very far with them. The "we like 'em arrogant" crowd is already spoken for.

[RetroLounge]

13. "The man literally oozes arrogance"

Really? Literally? For real?

I've seen him speak. In person and on TV. Never saw anything ooze from anywhere. Maybe you are "literally" exaggerating?

Oh well, and welcome to DU.

Since your post consists of name-calling and hyperbole, here's your first response to a baseless post with nothing to back it up except your opinion:

POOP! No, "Literally", Poop!

[JNelson6563]

14. Oh look ! Another Clark supporter

with less than five posts who can't say enough bad about Dean!! Funny how these newbies show up and seem to knwo right off the bat that such smears are acceptable, even applauded.

If there's one thing we need around here it's more divisive spew!

:eyes:

Julie

[Name removed]

6. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[JVS]

9. Joe's got the mig MO

[Don Claybrook]

7. A nuanced stance--now that's what I'm talking about!

Thanks for your post. As you can see, I also support Dean. I'd rather have Kucinich, but here I am anyway. It's amazing how many times you'll espouse a stand on something and someone else will say, "Well, Dean doesn't agree with your stance. He thinks such-and-such...". I'm not Howard Dean! I'm Don Claybrook, and I support a candidate who can win and who I MOSTLY agree with. But by the same token I assuredly DISAGREE with some of his positions. Moreover, I have agreements with every other one of the Democratic candidates in one or more areas. As I told someone else, just because it's election season doesn't mean my thinking goes completely binary.

If anyone really cared what I thought, I'd be happy to enumerate everything I think is wrong with Howard Dean. But at the same time I'll enumerate what I think is wrong with the rest of the candidates and give you a complete picture of why Dean comes out ahead in my calculus (again, that's ahead, not perfect).

For what it's worth, I think Kerry would be my #2 pick.

And to wrap this up, I want to agree with you about some good Dean traits: his anger is a GOOD thing, so long as it takes a productive route, and it is. He can and will take this fight straight to George W Bush and Tom DeLay and Karl Rove, and he won't give them an inch, not an inch. He's also one of the very few candidates not already beholden to big money interests. There's still a danger of that, they'll be giving to him, and we'll need to keep an eye on that. But so far, so good. And finally, he has been the ONLY candidate to feel what's really going on with the public and to connect with it. The others have depended too much on their focus groups, too much on their polls, when most of the rest of us knew better. Dean went with what he felt on the ground, and he was right.

Thanks for this thread.

[JVS]

8. How dare you bash Joe Lieberman!

I declare fatwah upon you!

[bain_sidhe]

10. Congratulations!

While that first heady rush of falling in love is wonderful, it's really not useful for the long haul ahead of us - no matter who your candidate is, he (or she, in the case of Braun supporters) is a human being with flaws. It's the "more mature relationship" you speak of that holds up in the long run.

[Toucano]

12. Nothing produces more "clicks" than

a cliffhanger subject line!

Congratulations on your decision. I differ with you, but still respect your thoughtfull consideration of your decision. Go forth with confidence!

[bigwillq]

15. Good point about Dean's flaws

At times I feel that it's intentional. I feel Dean has outbursts and says things before he thinks them through to try to relate to the public. The gaffes are a way to tell the people, he's just like the rest of us who are fed up at the route the current admins. has taken us down. When you're angry and upset, sometimes you let things slip. I do think he's arrogant too which may not pan out well with some of the general public.

[skjpm]

19. I sort of like arrogance

It's so much better than false piety. Ultimately, I just kind of like Dean, and I basically trust him.

[bitchkitty]

16. And an excellent choice it is -

although I'm not too sure about Edwards. I think he might be a good choice, but my heart cries, "Carol!"

[dogman]

18. I supported Carol

She was my Senator. She is agreat person. She had a lot of potential but didn't live up to it. She wasted time and tried to get along. She buddied up with Ben Switch Horse Campbell. It was a shame because while she thought she was making friends the knives came out behind her back. I hope whoever wins can take advantage of her talents. I'd love tosee her recover and come back strong.

[dolstein]

20. What are your "obvious reasons" for disliking Lieberman?

His strong record on choice?
His strong record on civil rights and gay rights?
His strong record on environmental issues?
His opposition to the Bush economic program and support for making the tax code more progressive?

If it's his support for the war on Iraq, wouldn't this "obvious reason" justify your dislike of Dick Gephardt?

If it's his support for NAFTA, wouldn't this "obvious reason" justify your dislike of John Kerry?

If it's his devout religious beliefs, wouldn't this "obvious reason" justify your dislike of John Edwards, who leads a Congressional prayer group?

If it's his criticism of Hollywood for glorifying violence (including violence towards women) and marketing adult entertainment to children, please explain why this should trump all the positive aspects of his record?

[oasis]

21. I don't usually barge in on pro candidate threads unless I support

that particular candidate. Since you hooked me in here, this is my two cents on Dr. Dean.

A year ago I was working on the campaign for Congressman Ed Case (special election in Hawaii). Several of Case's campaign workers were promoting Dean even back then so I warmed up to the doctor despite my strong admiration for Kerry . (Ed Case has since endorsed Joe Lieberman). I was elated when Dean did well in the polls and graced the front pages of Time and Newsweek.

I temporarily moved to California and rarely read or posted on DU through the spring and early summer, and got 95 percent of my news from cable t.v. and the L.A. Times.

Dean was holding his own against the Chimpster. Rah, Rah. Kerry, Gephardt, Joe L. and Edwards were going to have to wrest the news coverage from the "Internet money making phenom".

Upon returning home to Hawaii I was able to do more research on all of the candidates and relied on links from DU for my main source of information.

My original positive impression of Dean has fallen considerably in light of what I have found out in my reseach, coupled with his proclivity for saying the wrong thing. In my mind he has become damaged goods and would be a weak challenger to Bush.

So my view is just the opposite of yours in respect to his being prone to gaffes etc., although I will vote for him if he is the nominee.

[dogman]

22. Character means nothing?

Odd the Dean movement prides itself in expanding the base, but someone must be virginally pure to qualify? A general means a certain level of dedication and proven leadership. We have seen the sufficient experience of a governor. Personally someone who has stated they have a FP hole makes me skeptical but this is your choice. Looking at his record as Governor I personally feel he is unfit for President but I guess that still puts him ahead of what we have now.