Another weird phone call from a former bush supporter friend....

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

Just got off the phone. Here's how the weird call went:

"Moonbeam? I have to ask you something. Or talk to you about something. Really both."

(She sounded very somber, not normal for her.)

"Yeah?"

"You're voting for Kerry, right?" (I nearly laughed out loud and asked her where the hell she's been for the last ten months.)

"Yeah...."

"Ok." (Big blustery sigh) "Talk me into it."

"Talk you into what?"

Pause. "Voting for him."

"Kerry?" (I was wondering why she didn't just say his name.)

"Yeah. Talk me into it."

"Do you WANT to be talked into it?"

Another pause. "Yeah. Yeah, I really do."

I thought about asking her why, then thought better of it. For a split second, I just felt too tired. I've been talking to her about this stuff for the better part of a year and she's the one who leaves Fox News on 24/7 on every TV in her house. I quickly ran down her positions (socially conservative, but pretty clueless on just about everything else).

Finally, I took the tact of starting with the deficit. I went slowly. Then I moved on to the war in Iraq. She has a teenage son. Again, I was going slowly, simplifying things a lot. I used things I knew from F 9/11 but didn't say that's where I got it from.

I stopped and asked her what she thought.

She sighed again. "I don't know. But I think I might vote for him. I just get a feeling about this I can't explain. I don't know."

She thanked me and I asked her if there was anything she wanted to ask, specifically. She asked about Kerry's health care plan. I told her all that I knew (which is a lot because I've been researching it). She brightened up and said "you really think he'll be able to do that?"

I said "I truly think he is a good, honest man and wants what is best for all Americans. Yes, I do think he will do everything he can to get his healthcare plan passed."

She sounded more upbeat at that point and we got off the phone.

Damn but these undecideds are gonna be the death of me yet.

[LiberalAndProud]

1. Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!

And THANKS again.

Let this be a lesson to us all, KEEP TALKING!

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

2. It's SO damn tiring. I just want a nap, dammit.

[LiberalAndProud]

8. A cup of comfort.

:donut:

[calimary]

11. Man, this is the best - what an EXCELLENT reward - a donut that isn't

fattening!!!

RICHLY deserved in this case, too. I hope you get a baker's dozen, Moonbeam!

[GreenPartyVoter]

3. *hugs* Recharge your batteries and go get another one *g*

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

5. I don't know if I "got" her

but she did sound pretty happy when we got off the phone. It's vulgar but I always want to yell "SHIT OR GET OFF THE POT, DAMMIT! MAKE UP YOUR DAMN MIND!" But I know that wouldn't go over too well. LOL.

Imagine how KERRY feels. Whew.

[billyoc]

4. The staunchest republican conservatives

have "...a feeling about this I can't explain...", just like your friend. I mean, *NIXON* wouldn't vote for these neo-conmen. These space cadet pollsters/pundits will be falling all over themselves to explain why their not totally irrelevant after the Kerry landslide.

[Z_I_Peevey]

6. I get a lot of this too.

One of my sons' teachers expressed some interest in F911 viewing when my boys offered to loan her our copy. At first, she decided against it, saying "I'm afraid it would change my mind."

Well, we've got the DVD in circulation now and it is changing minds that I thought were not changeable. I am hopeful.

[PleadTheFirst]

7. Thank you.

For every point you've repeated for the millionth time. For every stifled sigh as you put up with them. For every ounce of effort you put in after you feel you can't give any more.

Thank you. :)

[puddycat]

9. You have a lot of patience with these undecided people.

Frankly, I respect Bush supporters more than undecided people. I wonder if they are worth the effort, because people that wishy-washy are apt to change their minds again by the time they get to the polls.

[dave123williams]

10. They're such demagogues...

I would say it's hard for people who have been listening to Faux, that are good honest people, to listen to that little voice in their heads that persistently says, 'This sounds like bullshit to me, but they keep saying how much they love the flag and the country and *I* love the flag and the country...still, it sounds like bullshit.'

I think that many of them would feel treacherous voting for Kerry, and have a hard time understanding that the left side of the aisle contains people who love the country just as much as they do, because they've been getting constant re-enforcement that we don't.

I think people like your friend probably have been lead down the primrose path, that they're questioning the veracity of what they're hearing from the attack-dogs over at Faux, and that they know too many people of good faith and good heart that are getting ready to vote against Bush.

Keep it up; if everybody can get one of 'em, we're in very good shape.

Unless, of course, the fuckers declare martial law and dissolve the congress after they lose.

[bloom]

12. Maybe she could watch "Going Up River"

It sounds like she wants to know what is good about him and not just what is horrible about Bush*.


We were at a party recently and one of the (Republican) prosecutors was surprised to hear that Kerry had been a prosecutor. I think a lot of people don't know that much about him - esp. if they watch FOX, etc. Then they know he has a lot of money, his wife is supposedly "evil" and that sort of thing.

[Stephanie]

13. Did you see this article yesterday? American Conservative Magazine

I think I convinced my Republican friend with this:

http://www.amconmag.com/2004_11_08/cover1.html

November 8, 2004 issue

Kerry’s the One
By Scott McConnell

There is little in John Kerry’s persona or platform that appeals to conservatives. The flip-flopper charge—the centerpiece of the Republican campaign against Kerry—seems overdone, as Kerry’s contrasting votes are the sort of baggage any senator of long service is likely to pick up. (Bob Dole could tell you all about it.) But Kerry is plainly a conventional liberal and no candidate for a future edition of Profiles in Courage. In my view, he will always deserve censure for his vote in favor of the Iraq War in 2002.

But this election is not about John Kerry. If he were to win, his dearth of charisma would likely ensure him a single term. He would face challenges from within his own party and a thwarting of his most expensive initiatives by a Republican Congress. Much of his presidency would be absorbed by trying to clean up the mess left to him in Iraq. He would be constrained by the swollen deficits and a ripe target for the next Republican nominee.

It is, instead, an election about the presidency of George W. Bush. To the surprise of virtually everyone, Bush has turned into an important president, and in many ways the most radical America has had since the 19th century. Because he is the leader of America’s conservative party, he has become the Left’s perfect foil—its dream candidate. The libertarian writer Lew Rockwell has mischievously noted parallels between Bush and Russia’s last tsar, Nicholas II: both gained office as a result of family connections, both initiated an unnecessary war that shattered their countries’ budgets. Lenin needed the calamitous reign of Nicholas II to create an opening for the Bolsheviks.

Bush has behaved like a caricature of what a right-wing president is supposed to be, and his continuation in office will discredit any sort of conservatism for generations. The launching of an invasion against a country that posed no threat to the U.S., the doling out of war profits and concessions to politically favored corporations, the financing of the war by ballooning the deficit to be passed on to the nation’s children, the ceaseless drive to cut taxes for those outside the middle class and working poor: it is as if Bush sought to resurrect every false 1960s-era left-wing cliché about predatory imperialism and turn it into administration policy. Add to this his nation-breaking immigration proposal—Bush has laid out a mad scheme to import immigrants to fill any job where the wage is so low that an American can’t be found to do it—and you have a presidency that combines imperialist Right and open-borders Left in a uniquely noxious cocktail.

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

16. This one's worthy of printing off

Thanks! Good find!

[Logansquare]

14. Good arguments for strongly self-identified conservatives

Talk to her about how Bush is not a true conservative, but really a neocon, in other words, a right wing radical. Cite some of the true conservatives, such as John Eisenhower, who have endorsed John Kerry.
http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/09/30/kerry.eisenhower.ap/

Abortions have actually increased under Bush, according to a pro-life statistician who has been following the trends:
http://www.courier-journal.com/cjextra/editorials/2004/10/11/oped-stassen1011-5709.html

Remind her that certain media, such as the rightwing talk shows and Fox News, have attempted to harden voter indentification with one party or the other. Ronald Reagan was elected into office with significant numbers of independents and self-identified Democrats. Same thing happened with Bill Clinton and Republican swing-voters, but right wing media hates to admit it!

John Kerry is not, despite the insistence of his opponent, the "most liberal member" of the Senate. This rating was produced for 2003 only, and is invalid because he missed votes due to campaigning. In previous years, he didn't even make it into the top ten. By the way, the following website was recommended by Vice President Cheney for fact-checking during his debate with Senator Edwards, although he got the web address incorrect.
http://www.factcheck.org/article284.html

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

15. Good stuff, thanks

I am going to use that, especially the abortion one. I've seen someone on another board use it to very good effect.

Thanks again!!!

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

17. To everyone

no time or energy for individual responses, but I wanted to thank all of you. DU really recharges my batteries, this is an amazing place. I only wish I knew about it when it first started, I wouldn't have spent that time feeling alone.

Thanks again. She came over a bit after the phone call and we talked further...about how bush is not really a conservative. I also used some Hunter Thompson points (only I put it more nicely!) about how Nixon would be considered damn near liberal today and she was pretty shocked by that but I showed her a few Nixon quotes and then I showed her the article by Eisenhower's son and she was pretty bowled over.

She also seemed a bit mystified that she'd not heard these things. I gently suggested Fox wasn't the best source of news to get ALL angles and stories, that you really have to cull from a lot of sources and she thanked me and said she will.

Said she's "sure" she's voting for KErry now. She is going tomorrow morning (we have early voting here). She just needed to be comforted about it. She made me promise not to tell her husband as he'd "be mad if he knew." (Hey whatever it takes.) We hugged. Then she wanted to pray so she grabbed my hands and she prayed that voting for Kerry was the right decision. I said "amen." Then she left, pretty happy.

She wouldn't do that just for my benefit. She was pretty concerned about anyone in our group of friends finding out. This election is so freaking weird.