Wesley Clark: Proving Allegiance by Governing?

[Printer70]

We know about Clark's past (repeatedly praised Bush and his cabinet, voted Reagan, voted Nixon). Now, this wouldn't be so troubling if Clark could prove that he has left his past allegiances behind by being elected to some position and governing as a Democrat. But he has never done this. And frankly, it's a risk to assume that he has, overnight, dissuaded himself of all the Republican ideas he was drawn to that would lead him to support presidents like Nixon and Reagan. It seems to me more that he's disagreed with Bush on how the war should have been fought, and that made him a (D)emocrat. I don't know if there's been a genuine shifting of views. And we can't know. I think people are rightly hesitant to blindly throw their support behind someone who'll "resuce" us when we don't really know how much different he'll be.

[cornermouse]

1. Well, let's see.

I voted for Nixon and Reagan. I didn't vote for Bush the first or second. Does that mean I shouldn't vote democrat? Are we, also, going to start shrinking our tent like the republicans?

I like Dean's feisty attitude and backbone. A refreshing change.

I like Clark's brains. Another refreshing change.

I want fiscal responsibility without throwing our social programs, environmental programs, and common sense overboard. And I like the health plans that several of the others have put on the table.

Why can't we take the best from each of them and combine it with the final candidate?

[slinkerwink]

2. mmmm, that practically calls for a photoshop

;-)

[Printer70]

3. I could note vote for you unless you proved to me...

by governing as a Democrat. Don't get me wrong. I believe you're a Democrat. But I'm willing to do that on a DU board, but NOT for something so consequential as nominating a Presidential candidate. Ideology is hard to discard- and Clark had the GOP ideology for a while.

[cornermouse]

4. Well, I'm with the Anyone But Bush crowd.

At the rate he's going, there won't be many pieces that are big enough to pick up, let alone put together.

[bowens43]

9. No , but it does mean

that if you just became a Democrat 3 just months ago you shouldn't be trying to run for the Presidency on the Democratic ticket. Clark is an opportunist. If Gore had won the election, Clark would now be running as a Republican. Clark has no history of supporting Democratic causes. His lack of commitment to the party and it's platform should be enough to disqualify him. He is now preying on the fears instilled by the bushies.

[wyldwolf]

5. Howard Dean: Proving Allegiance by Governing?

We know about Dean's past (repeatedly praised Bush and his cabinet, sealed his records, A+ rating from the NRA, corporatist in Vermont, etc.). Now, this wouldn't be so troubling if Dean could prove that he has left his past allegiances behind by being elected to some position and governing as a Democrat. But he has never done this. And frankly, it's a risk to assume that he has, overnight, dissuaded himself of all the Republican ideas he was drawn to that would lead him to govern Vermont like a Republican. It seems to me more that he's disagreed with Bush on when the war should have been fought, and that made him a (D)emocrat. I don't know if there's been a genuine shifting of views. And we can't know. I think people are rightly hesitant to blindly throw their support behind someone who'll "resuce" us when we don't really know how much different he'll be.

In his own transition from governor to White House aspirant, Howard Dean has undergone an equally stark - or, if you prefer, slick - ideological rebirth. When Dean entered the Vermont State House in 1991, inheriting a budget deficit, he immediately endorsed his GOP predecessor's plan for cuts in social spending. He also enlisted Republican businessmen as economic advisers, sparking charges of apostasy from within his party. ("At least he's our Republican," one local Democrat quipped.)

http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/0114/p09s02-coop.html





"The joke among a lot of Vermont Republicans was that they didn't need to run anyone for governor because they basically had one in office already," said Harlan Sylvester, a conservative Democratic stockbroker and longtime adviser to Dean.
(St. Petersburg Times, July 6, 2003)

Said he admired George H.W. Bush
Said George W. Bush was doing a fine job on terrorism
Said Cheney is an ideal Vice President

Former governor Philip H. Hoff served three terms in the 1960s, and is regarded as the grand old man of liberal Democratic politics here. His support for Dean comes leavened with skepticism... "As governor, he fell under the sway of business interests." Hoff said.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A15326-2003Aug2?language=printer

For Vermonters who have seen Howard Dean up close and personal for the last eleven years as our governor, there's something darkly comical about watching the national media refer to him as the "liberal" in the race for the Democratic nomination for president. With few exceptions in the 11-plus years he held the state's top job, Dean was a conservative Democrat at best. And many in Vermont, particularly environmentalists, see Dean as just another Republican in Democrat's clothing.

Dean became Vermont's accidental governor in 1991 after Governor Richard Snelling died of a heart attack while swimming in his pool. Dean, the lieutenant governor at the time, took the state's political reins and immediately followed through with his promise not to offend the Snelling Republicans who occupied the executive branch. And Dean carried on with his right-leaning centrism for the next eleven, long years.

http://www.counterpunch.org/colby02222003.html

So, with his competing words of praise for the Bush team and his solid conservative record in Vermont, one has to either agree that he is just as much "republican" as Clark OR that none of this really matter about Clark OR Dean.

You're choice.

But please don't cop out and set the famous "Dean bar" just high enough that Clark can't pass your bogus purity test.

[Printer70]

6. 3 Claims- 3 Disingenious Assertions

*He praised W's father (that makes him a Republican?). That's because Bush Sr. raised taxes in order to keep the financial house in order. He was hardly a conservative. To assert he's Republican because he supported Bush Sr's responsible tax increase is absurd.

*He balanced the budget (that makes him a Republican?). Since when did that become a sin for Democrats. Clinton did the same for years. It's a desirable thing.

*WashPost,Random People called him anything but a liberal. It's not important what people have labeled him. What's important are his policies: civil unions, health care for all Vermonters.

In contrast, Clark hasn't signed a single bill proving he's a Democrat. Guess we'll just have to take him on his word.

Sorry, but your cut and paste magic isn't working.

[wyldwolf]

8. Talk about disingenious assertions!

What we're dealing with here is you using different standards for Howard Dean.

By the way, cutting and pasting articles, as I've told you before, does not negate their truth.

Howard Dean governed like a republican.

A+ NRA rating. Wanted to make Vermont a corporate tax haven that would rival Bermuda, wanted to send nuclear waste to Sierra Blanca and Yucca Mountain, praised Bush, praised Cheney, praised Powell, FORCED to sign the civil unions bill, etc, etc.

The only difference is Dean was an elected official, Clark was not. But we see how Dean governed - like a republican.

[CWebster]

7. Maybe he will have better luck

fishing for votes at Free Republic?

[TreasonousBastard]

10. Might I ask...

precisely what "party loyalty" has to do with anything?

Particularly where it concerns whether or not one is qualified for office.

Are you thinking of all of those yellow dog Dixiecrats who were the most loyal of Democrats and have now run off and become the Republicans they always were?

Or perhaps you are thinking of the ward heelers in places like New York, Jersey City, Boston, and Chicago, many of whom are just now finishing their prison terms. Loyal party members there. Every one of them.

Rather than piss and moan about "party loyalty" which conjures up some rather appalling visions of the past, Comrade, I think we should welcome honest, intelligent, competant freethinkers into our ranks.

Do you have a problem with that?