Came one swing away from starting a bar-room brawl last night

[burythehatchet]

Its getting very tense in the streets. People's passions are simmering just beneath the surface. The casual bar talk shifts inevitably towards Kerry/bush*. We got into a pretty heated discussion with a couple of older guys who were regulars at the bar. They were cranky bastards who shouted down anything that they didn't want to hear. Insults started flying and having consumed about 8 Harps I had a lot of piss in me. They equally plastered in the deep rich suds of Guinness.

We reached a very tense stand down several times. The problem was that the bartender was a good buddy of the regulars and he kept stirring the pot. He was a rabid conservative who actually was pretty well informed. But he had a scary loyalty to bushco that quite frankly is frightening.

There was a contingent of about 30 service guys who were at the bar through the day. We got to know a bunch of them and 30% were actually undecided. I did not debate anything with the service guys. I just repeated over and over again that I would love to answer any questions that they have about anything relating to this election. And buy, they took advantage. I must to talked to 15 young 21 year olds over the course of the evening. It got really emotional when we were talking about the draft (I have a 17 yo).


So late into the night these two stiff shirted bastards show up at the bar. They started intimidating me and others who were sympathetic to our cause. But most me because ... well, as I said, I had a lot of piss in me.

These two guys were also good friends of the bartender. Its 1 AM, we've been there too long, and then the shoving starts. A couple of still elbows are put up. One swing was all it was going to take to light the place up. Not a good idea. My 44 yo body would have been pummeled by these guys weighing 280 a piece. I 'm so glad that I was able to keep my head about me because these guys wanted every chance to kick my ass.

In retrospect, what I learned was that the guys who I really connected with were grunts. Cannon fodder for bushco. The other two guys were commanders of some sort, because only when I left did I learn that the two guys stirring it up at the end were also in the service. The saw my activism in the bar as directly undercutting their authority over the grunts. I was interfering with their chain of command, in their eyes.

To make a long story even longer, I converted THREE of the privates. They had heard some incredible stuff. Here's one thing they asked me about: "..why did Kerry go to meet Saddam Hussein right before the war started and speak against the US?" That one floored me.

Anyway, kids, be careful out there. You can cut the tension with a knife. The fun begins on Nov. 2.

[Cerridwen]

1. I'm relieved to hear you're safe. The U.S. is feeling like a

civil war brewing. Geez I hope I'm wrong.

Stay safe. Glad to hear about the 3 converts.

I wish us all well.

:hi:

[burythehatchet]

3. There's a theory that says disparate groups cannot co-exist unless

there is need for them to co-exist. During the cold-war countries like Yugoslavia, Check., the entire balkans, were held together as confererations because they were proxies for the US and USSR. When the cold war ended, all these areas around the world no longer were compelled to remain united in their groups. So they started breaking off along ethic lines.

I wonder if the United States can be united no more because it is the simply the last federation to break.

[Cerridwen]

8. That's a scary thought. I wonder if somehow we'll find a common

enemy and that will keep us united. Another awful thought.

I'm just not sure what to think about the U.S. these days. I know we're filled to our borders' brim with caring, compassionate people but the current media is so focused on dragging our attention to the anomalies of hate and discord. Not to mention the rabble-rousing on both sides of the aisle. It's a scary place some days.

Then other days...I still have hope.

Thanks for letting me share.

:-)

[flyingfysh]

13. this applies to Yugoslavia and Iraq

In Yugoslavia, ethnic groups which would normally be at war with one another were held in place by Tito. When Tito died, the political union fell apart, and the various sides started fighting each other.

In some sense, the same is true of Iraq. It is an unnatural political union dreamed up by the British, which has Kurds, Shiites, and Sunnis. But as long as Hussein was in charge, none of their groups could proceed with their agendas. Now that Hussein is gone, the country risks falling into civil war.

I once heard a story of someone who had been extremely lethargic for many years, due to a very sluggish metabolism. A doctor diagnosed the cause of the metabolism and cured it, and he was able to resume a normal level of activity. Unfortuntately, it turned out that he was also seriously ill with cancer, and the sluggish metabolism had been holding the cancer in check. He was dead within a few months.

[burythehatchet]

15. that's a really good analogy

and the Tito example is the prototype of the political dynamic we're discussing.

[yardwork]

14. I don't think Americans split on geographic, cultural, or even ideological

lines. We split on how well informed we are. Informed people support Kerry. People who have been told lies - like the GIs in the above story - support chimp.

America is full of decent, thinking people. All they need is to be given the facts instead of lies, and they will make the sensible choices.

[burythehatchet]

20. I might disagree with you on one point

I do believe that America has formed a fault line between secularists and Christian conservatives. The church/state separation is the center of that debate.

[Cha]

2. What a descriptive story! Thanks,

bth..you were able to connect to some of them and get some truth out there and who knows how many they will be able to pass it on to?

Poor grunts..being fed all this propoganda to keep them as cannon fodder for the pnacers and their ilk.

[burythehatchet]

5. I think that at the very least their Antennae are up.

they know that are being fed a line. I asked one how he can a fair view when all he has is rush limbah on the radio.

[Cha]

12. That grosses me out to no end..

that all they get is limpballs. That is a pure shit government propoganda when a repuke is in office and anti government when a Dem is in.

[bushwakker]

4. Gotta keep cool

I'm learning to tone down my act and avoid discussion with Bushites. They are not rational but followers of the cult of ignorance. I have no respect and nothing to say to anyone who votes for the man.

[burythehatchet]

7. live and learn

I'm right behind you

[bushwakker]

9. I know a guy who has a peace symbol and a button of MLK

on his canvas briefcase. He voted for Bush in 2000 and says he's voting Nader this year. I've tried to talk sense to this person to the point of both of us getting pretty pissed off (he always bashes JK but never Bush?). How can I reason with such a person? I give up.

[proud2BlibKansan]

11. If he is voting for Nader,

then I assume the environment is a big concern of his. Try talking about how * has trashed our environment.

[burythehatchet]

16. smells like fear to me.

I would be certain he's not alone in fearing being anti-bush

[lakeguy]

6. nice work!

imagine if eveyone of us got 3 converts! hopefully it wouldn't almost come to blows as in your situation though:o

[Democrat 4 Ever]

10. If you get the chance - ask any soldier you see if the

recruiter who got him to sign up told him the complete truth about the service before his enlistment. If they say no, then I tell them, "Well, don't believe the Commander in Chief. You aren't getting the whole story this time either."

Have had the opportunity to use it a couple of times. At least it gets them to thinking. They know they heard the rosy side of military life, see the world, money for college, learn a career but they all know they didn't hear the rest of the story. If we can get people to just think for themselves then we have won.

[LittleClarkie]

17. Beer and politics is a dangerous mix

I was called a Communist by a guy who said that I could go to China or North Korea if Kerry lost, but that he had no place to go but America if Bush lost.

What the hell was he talking about? It made no sense. There are precious few Communist countries any more.

When I asked him if he wanted a one party system, he said no. He could see the Republicans being the left wing party, and something further to the right being the right wing party.

Yikes.

The little bit of Kerry support I've found in my Freeper town has been among the young who come to the bar, one woman from Florida visiting, a welder losing both welding jobs to outsourcing, and a butt load of my fellow church goers. I've had to replenish five of their houses with Kerry signs, as they got stolen.

Found a new one even today. As the kids had a Halloween party, we talked about many things. She said as recently as last year she was a weak Bush supporter, but has since become rabidly Kerry, for more reasons than she can name. "Don't get me started," she says.

[snowbear]

18. Hmm

I don't know any Republicans with enough class to drink Guinness. The ones I know drink extremely cheap, raunchy beer.

Only Democrats drink classy beer. :toast:

[burythehatchet]

19. They were Irish conservatives.

so they had the benefit of having grown up with decent beer.

Cheers!