Just how willfull is the ignorance?

[toddzilla]

Imagine some bush supporter, they claim to be "informed" and they cite that they watch cnn, msnbc, fox, network news etc..

Imagine that they are not really very active in seeking out information beyond the corporate owned media, and they listen to "talk radio" on the way to work sometimes.

In all honesty, these people have no clue the amount of money and effort that goes into shaping the public discourse and subsequently their opinion. I'm not saying i don't hold them accountable for their views, but you really can't expect the average citizen to know what PNAC is, or have any idea who richard mellon scaife is, ad infinitum.

The fairness doctrine was repealed and prevents all these things from being known, and frankly, i fault our government as a whole for this. I think we act like everyone should spend hours and hours a week on seeking out the real stories that aren't covered in easily accesable media outlets, and it's just not realistic.

I think it's amazing that the election is even close and shows just how bad bush is at the presidency, with all the media whores constantly trumpeting for him, he still can't even manage a majority. So when you talk to someone that knows very little but says "i'm definitely voting for bush" maybe you could point some of these things out to them and suggest they spend a few minutes asking themselves how they arrive at their opinions, you'd be surprised how much headway you can make.

[Stew225]

1. good point about the huge advantage * has

with the media whores. and DESPITE THAT, he's still going to get creamed! I'm sure the true Republicans are thrilled with their candidate. <sarcasm>

[TroglodyteScholar]

2. I have a republican coworker...

...who declares proudly that he doesn't read. Yet he still has all the answers. Last time he bragged that he doesn't read, I told him that might be why he's so ignorant -- and of course he feverishly denied any kind of ignorance. Almost seems like doublthink to me -- do nothing to learn, but have all the answers. Hm.

[Cerridwen]

3. I'd like to chime in (surprise) and add that there is also an

element of laziness and/or limited time.

Folks scraping bottom or trying to stay afloat don't have much time to ponder the "greater" events of the world or stay informed; especially since there is so much information but so little trust of the information sources.

And quite frankly, it's much easier to just go through life without a clue. Ignorance IS bliss for many of these folks.

:hi:

[oscar111]

4. 25 best facts to convert voters:Kerry bled, Bush fled, etc. Quality stuff

Got this email forward twice. I think it's good.. I added one of my points to it}
--------------------------
  1. Hit bush's strengths:
-war leader
-racism {not mentioned in polls, but his biggest strength}
---WAR LEADER
- On 9/11, Bush was told "we are under attack."   He just sat in fear for 7 minutes. { While second-graders read My Pet Goat out loud.}.
- Bush can't even protect us from the flu - how's he going to stop terrorists? { fails as a manager}.
- {Bush attacks Kerry->}Deserter attacks wounded vet.
- Kerry bled, Bush fled
- Bush will draft
---RACISM - {racists fear competition for jobs from ethnics, so more jobs = less racism. So say this ->}
- "Bush lost a million jobs: Clinton added 22 million".
==============
2. Next, our strong points -
- economy
- healthcare
ECONOMY
- Wages lower than when Reaganomics began {adjusted for inflation}
- Wages fell $1,500 under Bush
- Bush lost a million jobs: Clinton added 22 million.
- Bush gives tax breaks for outsourcing {jobs to India}
- YOUR job can be sent to India.
- Job shortage is 13 million
- Education won't help, because not enough jobs exist.
- Bush cut cops, firefighters, vets - to give the rich $ 300 Billion.
- Bush cut cops, so high crime
- Bush cancelled overtime
- Kerry will lower middle class tax, raise tax on the over-$200,000 crowd. Shifts it off us.
==============
Hit " 9/11 to blame for the economy"
- Most jobs lost BEFORE   9/11.
- Stocks recovered from 9/11, then taxcuts-for-the-rich crippled the economy.
- Bush threw the economy in a hole, and we haven't climbed out YET ! Clinton, it grew from day 1. ================
Hit "Reaganomics taxcuts will spark the economy" {The Reaganomics lie is their greatest strength. "WORK HARD" to end it.}. - Wages lower than when Reaganomics began. {1980}
- Wages fell $ 1,500 under Bush.
- Bush lost a million jobs
- Reaganomics cripples the economy
- Housewives must now work, because of Reaganomics. { 1980 ended most housewives}
- Bush cut cops, firefighters, vets - to give $300 Billion to the rich.
- Reaganomics cut asylums in half, now crime is everywhere.
- 1/3 bridges need repair, potholes are everywhere.
==============
WHY REAGANOMICS FAILED:
- GDP rise never trickles down to you - why would the rich ever want to give you free money? They spend $2 million on birthday parties. {Kozlowski}.
==================
Our way to spark the economy is to spark the PRODUCERS - the middle class:
- by cheaper doctors, cheaper college, end ripoffs by ending deregulation, by adding more jobs, by shifting taxes to the over-$200,000 crowd.
- sparking the middle class by making it healthy, educated, free of ripoffs, always employed, and shifting taxes off of it.
- 1952 was the year with a tax structure the most free of Reaganomics. It was a time of prosperity.
==============
HEALTHCARE - 20 nations outlive us: all have nationalized healthcare: all cheaper.
- The US has rationing. Ration cards are green. Green dollar bills.
- World Health Organization rated our health system quality at # 37.
- Our population's health is # 72. {yes, seventy second !} THE WORLD
HEALTH REPORT - 2000.
-We pay more/person than anyone on earth.
- Bush ignored August warnings on flushots, but England acted - got 7 sources.
- Bush wants to destroy Medicare and social security.
=======
GOOD WEBSITES:
http://www.democrats.org
http://www.airamericaradio.com
http://www.democraticunderground.com great forums
=======
Copy freely, no copywrite. "California" Mary arrdvark sorority 82 chi'go
 M  #0    Wages up $7,000 under Clinton- down $1,500 Bush oscar111  Oct-23-04 05:44 PM  #1       Summary of ZINGERS for debaters, phone bankers oscar111  Oct-23-04 06:01 PM  #2          "stocks lost a thousand, wages down fifteen hundred, a million jobs lost" oscar111  Oct-23-04

[helnwhls]

5. I mourn the fairness doctrine

The fact that the election is close gives me hope that we are not all idiots. People who can, are thinking for themselves. Just look at the number of folks who found thier way to this place.

I hope that among the first things our President Kerry does, is bring back the fairness doctrine.

EDIT: for spelling

[tnlefty]

6. VERY from what I encounter.

My mother admitted that bush* is a lying, warmongering sack of shit just last weekend, but she's gonna vote for him - she's just not gonna feel good about it. It doesn't matter how many facts are presented she and many people are gonna vote for this lying, corrupt misadministration.

I really do think that a lot of people are really trying to be stupid. I think that ignorant is different as it is more a matter of not knowing or not being aware of something. Stupid is when one is no longer ignorant (given facts, etc.), but continues to behave a certain way. Sorry, but I think that many in my neck of the woods are really trying to be stupid.

[proud2BlibKansan]

7. Ignorance is bliss

That saying applies so well these days. :)

[captain disgruntled]

9. I think there's a pretty profound psychological construct behind

this 'wilful ignorance'. I think if you go out of your way to find contrasting contradictory viewpoints, you start doing the research, you start reading the books--you come away with the inescapable conclusion that your government is fundamentally corrupt and you've been played for a dupe for at least the last four years. And that's a pretty big revelation for some people to wrap their heads around.

I was phone-banking on Friday, and I talked to a dude who described himself as 'leaning Democratic'. So I'm a little cocky, a little presumptuous, and I say, "so I guess you're probably voting for Kerry as well (as the Congressional candidate whose phone bank I'm working with)", and he says he's still not sure.
So I ask him if there's any information I can send him about Kerry that would help, uh, clear things up any, and he says no, he feels he's got all the information he needs.

And I said something about the numbers of troops lost in Iraq, and did that factor in for him, and he told me
he'd recently returned.
I was gobsmacked. I was trying to be polite, I thanked him for his service and all, but I said he was in a unique position to see the folly of this whole thing, and he said yeah he knew. I said, you know the reports on the evidence used to send you in.
He said yeah.
I said (by now I was getting a little shrill) you know your Secretary of Defense met with Saddam in the 80's???? He said
yeah, he knew.
At that point I had to thank him again for his time and service and hang the hell up.

I guess it's true that not all of these poor buggers are being issued Kevlar helmets.

[cynatnite]

8. It can be preferential over the truth

I knew I didn't like Bush and I had a couple of reasons why. I watched MSNBC, CNN and read a few papers from time to time and that was it. If a bush supporter were to have cornered me at the time with their talking points and deep beliefs I probably wouldn't have had a snowball's chance in hell of defending why I believed as I did.

I didn't used to go actively searching for information until I decided to read AL Franken's latest book. It wasn't until then I realized that there was a hell of a lot more than I had realized. It was like the blinders came off for the very first time in my life. This was about six months ago.

Now, no matter the supporter, even my own mother, can't stand up to reason and facts. Inevitably, they only have their religion to fall back on and even that's a weak defense for keeping * in the White House.