17 things you don't know about Howard Dean

[KaraokeKarlton]

He's a hardheaded penny-pincher, she's a publicity-shy doctor. PEOPLE magazine sat down with Democratic Presidential candidate Howard Dean, 55, and his wife, Judy, 50, for their first joint interview. Read 17 things we learned about him, then peruse the exclusive transcript.

1. He calls his wife "sweetie"; she calls him "Howie."

2. He wore his prom tuxedo to one of President Clinton's White House state dinners to save money, but coughed and split his pants and had to be escorted home by state troopers covering his posterior.

3. His staff forced him to buy a new suit at Paul Stuart in New York for the campaign (it cost $800). "It nearly killed me."

4. He always turns off the lights when he walks out of a room. He used to get into fights with his wife about turning up the heat in the winter, so now she pays the bill so he doesn't have to see it.

5. The last sitcom he watched was All in the Family in its original run.

6. He is compulsive about recycling. Once he picked up every newspaper off an airplane at the end of a flight and hauled them to a recycling center. He also does recycling inspections of his staffer's bins.

7. He insists that paper in his office be printed on both sides.

8. He likes Outkast and Wyclef Jean (his son's music) as well as Bob Dylan, Peter, Paul and Mary, Led Zeppelin and the Grateful Dead.

9. He fixes the toilet at home; plumbing is his "therapy."

10. He never takes taxis or limos. In New York City he takes the subway.

11. Asked his favorite food indulgence, he responds: fish. (He later amends this to chocolate chip cookies.)

12. He drinks generic ginger ale and snacks to save money.

13. He plays the guitar and harmonica. He sings '60s folk tunes (see: Peter, Paul and Mary above.)

14. Despite his reservations about cost, he was finally persuaded to take his shirts to the dry cleaner last year. He used to just throw them in the wash.

15. As the governor of Vermont, he drove himself and pumped his own gas.

16. He has been known to tape his shoes together.

17. He wears '70s-style gold-rimmed glasses that he won't update; his wife carries a purse covered in pen marks. They are both devoted discount shoppers ...


At the bottom of the page is a link to a very long interview with both Howard Dean and his wife Judy. This is a great read and shows just how normal and down to earth the family is. It's my favorite interview of Dean to date!

Link to photo and this list:

http://people.aol.com/people/features/peoplespecial/0,10950,577059,00.html

Link to interview:

http://people.aol.com/people/features/peoplespecial/0,10950,576954,00.html

[cthrumatrix]

1. whew -- not that we know this -- he has my vote

[Padraig18]

2. I love it!

He'd fit right in with my family--- they both would, actually. "Waste not, want not." :)

[KaraokeKarlton]

4. Make sure to read the interview

You'll love it! :D

[mmonk]

3. refreshing

[Name removed]

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[Padraig18]

8. Was that neccessary?

Tsk, tsk, tsk...

[AP]

29. Metaphorically, I think it's a worthwile comment.

I read that Dean mows his own lawn. We've discussed this before. To many, this is a great sign of frugality. This, in fact, is something I do. However, I don't have 4 million in the bank and more productive ways to spend my time.

Furthermore, I live my life not with the idea so much of retaining as much of my wealth as possible, but with the idea of trying to be a productive member of a productive society, so that more wealth might come to me and to others in the future.

In that respect, I'm with Keynes. I believe that it's a good idea to spread a little wealth downwards and outwards to create a strong middle class which creates a good economy, which then gives me more opportunities here in the middle to be happier, healthier and wealthier.

Like, when I go to a restaurant frequently, I like to tip big. I know it'll get me good service in the future, which will make my life simpler, and give me more time to do things I'd rather do than stand around waiting for a table or sitting at my table for a long time waiting for dinner to arrive. Also, I know that the wait-staff lives in my community, and I want them to be able to make a living, and have more options, and then contribute back to the community in more productive ways.

So, if I were sitting on 4 million, I don't think I'd be mowing my own lawn, unless I were really really bored. I'd feel better about myself if I paid the neighbor's kid to do it so that he could build up his college fund.

That's the point of the camel-eye of needle thing. God didn't have a problem with people reaping the fair rewards of their honest labor. But he did think that if you were hoarding all your wealth, and not putting it to good, productive use, helping your fellow human being, something ain't quite right.

How does this relate to Dean? Well, I really think they tell these stories about Dean to make people like me who do do these things (recyle, mow our own lawns, not buy new suits every year) think Dean's one of us. But the fact is, Dean is very rich, and he has 4 million in the bank, and so these stories cut both ways. They tell another story that might not be so flattering.

[mouse7]

32. I would suggest not commenting about state of someone's salvation

It's a very bad habit of many evangelical Christians that many find quite annoying.

[AP]

39. You read more into my comment than I intended.

My comment was about the ethics of hoarding money, which I hope I explained in my long reply above.

If you'd like to address that comment, please do.

[mouse7]

41. It's easier for a camel to fit through the eye of a needle...

...than for a rich man to enter the gates of heaven.

That's the bible verse.

There's nothing to "read" here. Rich + camel + eye of needle= Dean is going to Hell.

There is NO OTHER WAY to take the quote.

[AP]

44. I was referring to the temporal moral and ethical situation

to which that allegory refers.

Why would god be upset that people die rich? God's not worried about people being rich.

As I already said, it's because, if you're accumulating a lot of wealth in your life time, you're missing a lot of opportunities to do something good with it.

My argument is, why is Dean wasting his time mowing his own lawn when he can do something good -- whether that is helping the neighbor develop a college fund, or spending his valuable time doing something to help people (like, for instance, volunteering at the soup kitchen or working on an AA plan for his office)?

And the root of this is, as I've noted, the campaign tells these stories as counterspin for the problem that Dean did grow up rich and privieleged. However, being rich and privileged is why these stories sometimes don't make sense.

[mbali]

50. I certainly didn't read it that way.

[AntiCoup2K4]

55. Here's another Scripture quote for you - Matthew 7:1

"Judge not lest ye be judged"

How do you know what Howard Dean does with his money? Do you know how much he gives to his church, or to the synagogue where his wife and children worship? Do you know whether or not the money he saves by turning down the heat might go to a worthy charity? And if he does support these things with his money, then wouldn't he be doing as Jesus commanded?

I believe it was Martin Luther King who said "text without context is pretext". And you took the scripture entirely out of the context in which Jesus Christ originally said it.

[AP]

59. four days before the first primary you're seriously asking me not to judge

candidates?

M'kay.

I'm just trying read the story he's trying to tell about himself.

I think there are two ways to read it.

[calimary]

83. It made me think of something else - remember how George I was so

confused and perplexed by those bar codes on every item that gets scanned at every supermarket checkout counter? Proved he couldn't be bothered, in his own universe, to live, or even understand how it was to live, how the common man lives. He was just a little TOO FAR UP THERE in the rarified air of the economic elite. This list about Howard Dean only shows me that he is far from that George I effect, even while he himself is well-off, and ostensibly doesn't need to be frugal. What would we think of him if he did the opposite?

I rather like knowing these things. It shows me there's more I can relate to, personally, about this candidate, than just his righteous anger. If more of the wealthy were socially conscious and had a stronger awareness of, and practice of, recycling and other socially responsible behavior, our country wouldn't be in quite the mess it's in, these days. I wish there were more people of prominence who were, for example, fanatics about recycling and not being ostentatious with their wealth. They'd set a good example.

[beaconess]

74. So, I guess you must also have fervent objections to

Dean and others criticizing those who voted for the war or the Patriot Act or not standing up to Bush, etc.? After all, who are they to judge anyone else?

[Cheswick2.0]

138. How is that the same?

Silly comparison, the two things are not the same at all. Judging someones state of salvation and deciding if they were on the wrong side of the Iraqi war resolution are very different. We make value judgements all the time. So I can judge Kerry for voting for the IWR, I just can't judge whether he is going to hell for it or not.

[loyalsister]

68. "ethics of hoarding money"

Or ethics of not living life in a way in which you deem proper? Ever consider the posibility that a guy who likes to fix toilets might also like to mow his lawn?

[Name removed]

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[Kathy in Cambridge]

86. And a lot of Americans don't give a tinker's damn

about a candidate's religious qualities. What does that mean anyway?

[dsc]

43. and if he did hire the neignbor's kid to do it

the first word out of your mouth would be child labor.

[AP]

45. dsc, I know, to you, it must sound like I criticize every little thing

about Dean.

But you must understand that I am totally honest about these things.

Many times, I've made these same comments about other situations long before Dean came along.

I have almost definitely used the eye of the needle/ camel allegory about Cheney and about Republicans. It's something I believe about wealth hoarders, rather than wealth creators. And I've always believed in Keynes.

I talked about taxes forever before Dean came along.

I talked about race and racism

About middle class opportunity.

Dean stands for the opposite of just about every poltical-philosophical issue I believe in (or he's just plain, 100 times worse than the next best candidate on those issues).

It would be dishonest of me not to point these things out.

[dkf]

137. AP: You must be a Gephardt or Kucinich supporter.

Kerry's got millions, Edwards has got millions, Clark wanted to make millions ($40 million was the goal, wasn't it?).

Fascinating.

[AP]

159. I don't have a problem with people being fairly rewarded for their labors.

Notice that Edwards did something better than anyone else, and got rewarded fairly for it. I'd love to see a breakdown of how much money every candidate has and where it came from and what rate it was taxed at.

Edwards and Kucinich must have the highest percentage of income taxed at the highest rates -- as earned income. When you're a trial lawyer for individuals and your clients pay you, you don't get paid in stock options. You get paid in income taxed as earned income. Since much of Edwards's income was above the bottom of the top income tax bracket, it has probably been taxed at a higher rate than anyone's.

For comparison, I read that Dean and his wife have never made more than 185K in any one year. They've been married and working for about 20 years, 185 was a recent year, so their average might be lower -- say 100K. Yet they have about 4 million in assets. Apparently, during that time they recieved 1 million in gifts from Dean's parents. So that's at least 1/3rd of their income that they got totally untaxed and unearned. That still leaves another 2-3 mil to account for. Perhaps trust funds and inheritance? Were those things taxed? Probably not.

Yeah, I do like Edwards and Kucinich a great deal. Anyone who works for a living and who wants a president who understands how the tax burden is allocated in America should prefer those candidates.

[mbali]

49. Damn! You're good!

n/t

[AP]

53. I'm simply being honest.

I don't know what it would take for me not to want to look too deeply into anything or any spin put out by any one of the candidates, and if I didn't think too hard, I might not realize stuff like this.

However, I think we owe it to ourselves and to the candidates to think extremely hard about the messages they're trying to send.

[AntiCoup2K4]

79. You went way beyond questioning Dean's "message"

You said he was "going to Hell". That's a huge difference. There's a few candidates in the current field whom I really don't care for. And I'll say so, when it comes to their records, or their associations. But you'll never catch me speculating on their address for eternity.

Now Bush Jr and his gang, that's different. Those fuckers openly break every commandment in the Bible. I'd say their chances of going to Hell are pretty good. But God's not letting me make that call, or you either.

[Name removed]

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[AP]

160. see post 159.

And why's this about me?

[Name removed]

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[JNelson6563]

150. I would rather they laugh at my frugality

than weep over my extravagances.

I forget which king said this but I thought it worth noting. Some people just aren't materialistic. I cannot imagine taking issue with this.

Julie

[AP]

165. Unless it's your generosity that is extravagant.

[dsc]

19. Edwards would never say such a thing

I doubt he would be happy a supporter of his has.

[AP]

23. Me not being Edwards...add it to the list of millions of things

falling under that heading.

[Name removed]

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[Cheswick2.0]

87. Unless you are God

you don't get to judge.
Edwards isn't ready for prime time. Don't be mad at Dean for that.

[bearfartinthewoods]

134. you do know that we are aware that this is just another tactic

to try and distract from civil discussion, don't you. i'd be more impressed with dean supporters if they didn't try to change the subject to deflect attention away from dean.

[Cheswick2.0]

142. okay BF

whatever you say. :eyes:

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

105. he can't take it with him

:)

[mzmolly]

108. Are you implying Edwards is hurting for cash?

Or that he intends to give it all away on his death bed?

[AP]

130. He doesn't seem afraid to spend it for good ends.

He spent 6 mil to run for the senate. He started and funds a charitable foundation in his son's memory. He bought a lot of stuff from Home Depot, rented a truch and the stuff away to Hurricane victims.

I suspect that Edwards is more like Clinton. Not so much interested in the number of significant figures on their bank statements as they're interested in doing something valuable with their money.

It's just an impression I get.

[JNelson6563]

151. Biblical references?

May he who is without sin cast the first stone.

Reality....We will all be worm manure in the end, no matter how rich or poor. Me thinks you can surely find an issue more worthy of criticism.

Julie

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[mbali]

172. Wow

Amazing.

AP tosses out a commonly quoted Bible passage to illustrate why stinginess is not necessarily an admirable thing, and he's treated to a barrage of Dean supporters insisting that he is playing God and condemning Dean to burn in hell.

But why should I be surprised. After all it's becoming a standard practice for some folks here to read considerably more into people's plain words. The funny thing is that the interpretation varies depending upon whether it helps or hurts Howard Dean.

For example:

Al Sharpton notes that Dean failed to put any minorities in his cabinet and numerous Dean supporters draw the bizarre conclusion that he called Dean a racist - failing to note the irony of attacking someone as a racebaiter for pointing out someone's hiring record, but thinking it's perfectly appropriate to call someone a racebaiting demagogue.

Howard Dean says he doesn't think affirmative action should be done by race and, in his defense, some Dean supporters insist that this means that he fully affirmative action based on race.

Well, maybe I shouldn't be amazed. Given the pattern I've seen here lately, it's completely consistent. Ridiculous, but consistent.

[Name removed]

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[rucky]

6. Physicians are notoriously cheap

why is that?

[Padraig18]

9. Beacuase they almost starve as interns and residents?

:shrug:

[Leilani]

7. I read the article

And it was very good...

She seems like a very nice lady, & somewhat shy, which is what I always suspected.

I'm sure she would be a very good 1st Lady.

Go Wes!

[Killarney]

10. I love finding out personal stuff like this about the candidates

It makes them seem more accessible.

Good article! :toast:

[mouse7]

11. Burlington staff pulled a prank on Dean involving recycled paper

They left a piece of newspaper untended on a cabinet... Dean comes along on his recycling patrol, picks up the paper, and like a David Copperfield scarf in a pocket, the piece of newspaper keeps coming and coming and coming. Dean supposedly had many yards of newpaper by the time he figured out he's been gotten.

[tridim]

12. He's so much like me it's scary

I guess that's why I like him so much.

"He always turns off the lights when he walks out of a room"

I'm obsessive about having too many lights on, although it drives other people nuts. I never have more than two bulbs on at a time. My wardrobe is purely functional, and I only shop for clothes every 4 years. I own 1 tie, 1 pair of black shoes and one sport jacket that are each about 10 years old and used only for weddings and funerals.

I think we're soul mates.

[NashVegas]

38. '70s Energy Crisis

I think most of us who were around for that remember well the measures taken, and for some the habit stayed with us. My brothers and I would get reamed if we'd left a room with the light on for no reason.

Even now, I *shut down* my computer every night because of that ingrained habit. It drives me up a wall that my TiVo can't be turned off and 'wake' itself like a VCR when it needs to.

[PassingFair]

13. "It nearly killed me!"

I love this guy.

[KaraokeKarlton]

14. Dean definitely is the MOST "normal" guy candidate running

He's got a lot in common with "joe average" and he actually lives as if he has to live paycheck to paycheck. He's more in tune with the same kinds of concerns average Americans have. Vermont doesn't have a governor's mansion, either, so he hasn't been living some "priveledged" life style. He's been living like a normal guy. I really like this about him.

[Toucano]

15. I don't know...

I think "joe average" has seen "Friends", "Cheers", "Curb Your Enthusiasm", or "Seinfeld". There have been some great sitcoms since "All in the Family" finished it's original run.

There's lots to admire in that list, but I also think it's possible to be too cheap.

Penny wise and pound foolish, you know?

[KaraokeKarlton]

20. They pick up local stations

but don't have cable. I've never heard of "Curb Your Enthusiasm" but all the other shows are not on cable stations. That would mean the family has likely seen them.

There's nothing wrong with being frugal. Just think of all the programs we could pay for with a president who isn't wasteful of money. :D

[Rose Siding]

33. Not taking cable was a family value thing

-not a cheap thing, according to the interview.

[ThirdWheelLegend]

37. "as if he has to live paycheck to paycheck"

There is a difference between that and actually living paycheck to paycheck or worse.

"Dean definitely is the MOST "normal" guy candidate running"

Ahh well.. guess we have to disagree.

[Duder]

65. I know what you mean by "normal"

They're not pretentious or snooty but are the kind of people one might feel comfortable having a conversation at the kitchen table with. I wouldn't have to worry about cleaning my house when Howard and Judy stopped by. They have their priorities right.

Good interview, thanks.

[Zomby Woof]

67. Dean came from Park Avenue

Dean's family were upper class Park Avenue people, and Dean was a Wall Streeter for a while before becoming an MD - not exactly regular folks.

DK is the one with a REAL working class background. His Dad drove a truck, and they really did live paycheck to paycheck. They not only moved nearly 20 times by the time he was out of high school, but they even lived out of cars a few times. They never owned a home. Plus, he held menial jobs and worked several of them before getting into politics. His net worth is in the lower 5 digits.

Living LIKE a 'normal guy' does NOT make one a 'normal guy'. A leopard cannot change his spots.

[TrueBlueDem]

76. Not Park Avenue, but Long Island is where Dean grew up

And Dean worked on Wall Street for only two years before he decided he wanted to go to med school.

[Zomby Woof]

85. lol

Long Island has lots of bluebloods. Plus, his family matriarch and Bush's family matriarch were the maids of honor at each other's weddings. Family connections like that are common in those circles, and not alien to Long Island.

Actually, I don't care about his background. It's just that I find the pretense of being a "normal guy" laughable.

What I really care about is his agenda, and how it falls way short in my eyes.

[KaraokeKarlton]

99. My ex husband was born and raised in Long Island

He's a woman beating alcoholic who delivers pizzas for a living. Stop with the geographical profiling. The address isn't what makes the person.

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[Polemonium]

136. Dean's choices demonstrate who he is

This article in the New Yorker shows a man who deeply believes in the welfare of other people.

http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/?040112fa_fact

Learn about a leopard's spots before suggesting he change them

[CWebster]

158. Like Gandhi?

Like St Francis of Assisi?

Also born into wealth and privilige.
Judging character based on factors outside of the individual's control is the same sterotypical assumption be it poor or rich.

[AP]

167. But they both gave it all away. Gandhi lived with NOTHING.

Not just homespun clothes, but now huge bank account. They gave everything they had to others.

That's the difference here.

[NJCher]

16. I have a feeling "cheap" is going to be back in style

Thanks to bush's big-spender ways, we're all going to be pinching pennies.

Anyway, I'm not cheap; I'm parsimonious.


Cher

[Maddy McCall]

17. 18. What's in his sealed files in the Vermont archives

Edited to say that as a Democrat it is more important that he discloses information about how he ran his office while a public servant in Vermont. I think this is much more important to know than that he split his tuxedo pants at a White House dinner.

This is my greatest problem with Dean--he won't open his files. So what's in there, we just don't know, and I don't want to find out after it's too late.

[KaraokeKarlton]

18. A) Nothing

n/t

[kixot]

22. I'm going to spend the next few minutes...

trying to figure out what this has to do with the original post. I hope you'll do the same.

[RetroLounge]

163. Please re-read original post

then consider why you felt you needed to say that...

Related? No...

[On the Road]

21. I Liked that Interview

It's this type of coverage that is enabling Dean to survive the onslaught of political attacks from both parties.

[Rainbowreflect]

24. He likes the Grateful Dead.

He just moved up to #2 on my list.

[KaraokeKarlton]

26. Did you read the actual article?

If not, it shows the Howard Dean that I, as a Vermonter, know and love as a political leader. You can't read the article and not smile. It's just so cute and adorable the way he and Judy interact with each other. It's clear they have a great marriage and a wonderful family.

[Rainbowreflect]

30. Yes, I read it.

It does show a very warm & personal side of both of them.
I love articles like this.

[eissa]

25. Great interview

Shows the real Dean and not the "angry" Dean who eats kittens and beats babies.

[Frederic Bastiat]

27. 19. Went skiing in Aspen with bad back evading Nam

[dave29]

34. which he has all but admitted

Clark has a great resume - but also voted for the platforms of Reagan, Nixon and Bush Sr.

[mouse7]

35. Not true.

From the New York Times...

"...In early 1970, more than a year before Dr. Dean's student deferment was due to lapse, he decided to see where he stood.

If approved for service, he said, he thought he might try Officer Candidate School, as a Yale friend had done. He said he had never considered the National Guard.

So, he came to his physical armed with X-rays and a letter from his orthopedist...."


http://college3.nytimes.com/guests/articles/2003/11/22/1126070.xml

See... Dean had more than a year left on his student deferment left. Dean was eveading nothing when he took that physical. He was voluntarily attempting to enter Officers Candidate School when he took that physical.

[HumanPatriot]

112. and such makes me quite proud...

If only Clark and Kerry had that much going for them, standing up to the elitists' conscription of the massess to fuel an unjust imperialistic invasion of a 3rd world country. And...this has what to do with the article on hand?

[AP]

114. Dean wasn't so opposed to imperialism tha he didn't want to claim his bro'

served in South East Asia.

Remember that little flap? He told an Iowa paper that his brother was his closest living relative who served in the armed services. It wasn't exactly true.

[HumanPatriot]

118. I do remember...

...a question which required candidates to exploit relatives that served their country militaristically to prove that they were from patriotic families. Unfortunately, Dean addressed what the question implicitly asked, rather than what it explicitly asked, so was techniccally in error. I would rather had him call bullshit on such a question that has absoutely no place in the political realm. But no one is perfect.

I am ashamed to live in a country where such a question, and its implicit undertones, are even uttered in the midst of politics.

[AP]

122. If that's your interpretaion of the question,

aren't you even more upset that Dean thought it was so important to have a close relative in the military that he invented military status for his brother?

You may have addressed this, but it's not clear to me whether you have.

[HumanPatriot]

125. I said im quite dissapointed he didn't call BS...

He played into their hands on this issue rather than attempting to change this distgusting mindset.

Im still not sure on a few points of him "inventing" anything, as you are framing the question. He never stated his brother served in the armed forces, only that his brother died in Laos. The paper specifically asks for a military service member, but, we Americans know that patriotism can be derived from other sources of service. Intlligence, politics, etc. An I remain uninformed regarding what exactly he was doing there. So with that said, he answered correctly perhaps the implicit question without inventing anything (that his family was patriotic as his brother died in service--perhaps service, still in contention), but he didn't address the explicit question. Despite all of this talk, I am more angry at such a paper for even introducing a militaristic/patriotic question into the political landscape. But in no way am I happy Dean didn't call them on this and rather pandered a bit. But rest assured, any answer, by anyone who could answer positively, is based upon an exploitation of their families members to prove patriotism (in a false manner).

[AP]

129. The Q was 'who's your closest relative who served in armed forces' (para-

phrasing).

He said is brother.

His brother was never in the armed services, and the government and his family claimed he was a tourist. He was listed MIA, which is curious. The geneva convention says that civilians can only be listed as MIA if they take up arms in a combat zone or if there is a doubt about their status as combatants.

Nobody ever distinguished under which clause Dean's brother fell. It's unlikely it's the former.

[HumanPatriot]

131. Get your facts straight...

He said somethign along the lines, "My Brother died in Laos..."

Period. He exploited a relative to prove, via a messed up question, that his family was patriotic. I do not appluad him on that, nor any other candidate who did such, but feel the quesiton was quite out of place anyway.

[AP]

133. You do realize that's almost exactly what I said.

Do you think he was free associating? He was asked to identify a person. He repsonded by naming his brother. He knew the implication, but left himself an out. If he wanted to say what you claim he's tryhing to say he should have said, "Although my brother did not serve in the armed forces..."

By responding to that question with "My brother..." he implied quite clearly that his brother served.

What if I answered that question with, "My mother was raised on a farm."

Am I honestly going to claim later that it was totally non-responsive answer and that I only meant to convey that my mother was born on a farm?

[Name removed]

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[AP]

157. Human Patriot argued Kerry and Clark are unfit because they served in Viet

Nam.

My comment was that Dean is sort of embracing the notion of service, and trying to patch holes in his record by claiming he had a connection to Vietnam which didn't exist. If he was so opposed to Vietnam philosophically, why would he have gone out of his way to claim a connection to it?

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[Bill McBlueState]

28. heating

4. He always turns off the lights when he walks out of a room. He used to get into fights with his wife about turning up the heat in the winter, so now she pays the bill so he doesn't have to see it.

I like this idea! I think Mrs. WMass is going to start paying our heating bill...

Dean may have had a privileged childhood, but he certainly doesn't live like it now. I appreciate that.

[AP]

31. It nearly kills Dean to spend $800 on suit, but he thinks $300 tax cut is

nothing.

He has 4 million in the bank, and doesn't want to lose $800, but to the middle class who is in debt up to eyeballs, he says you won't miss $300.

Hmm.

These stories cut both ways.

What would a new Tux have cost? What did it cost in overtime for the state troopers to take him home with a split seem?

Penny wise. Pound foolish.

[dave29]

36. Frugality

is something we should all learn, especially if we have acquired massive amounts of debt. This is one of the reasons I admire Dean most - he is frugal, despite having access to large sums of money.

[AP]

40. Penny wise. Pound foolish. And Dean has NO debt.

In fact, his parents and in-laws gave him money to buy their house so that he wouldn't have a mortgage.

Don't you see the irony in all this?

Do you know what Dean's education plan is? It's another form of student loan. He wants students to go into more debt, yet he doesn't have ANY debt himself because, for himself, personally, he knows that debt can be crippling.

[Toucano]

47. I'm with AP on this, I think.

There's a thin line between being frugal and being a miser.

One has to learn to spend money wisely, not just stop spending.

Still, many of these things are great. It's just when you put them all together that is seems a little creepy.

[SadEagle]

52. Perhaps a bit...

But do you think Gov. Dean may be a bit uncomfortable about being wealthy, given his family background, and because of that compensates by trying to spend very little?

[AP]

54. Do you think he'd be like that if he weren't a politician?

Or, another question: do you think there are lots of rich people who aren't frugal?

As I've said above, I think they tell these stories about Dean to make him more accessible to the middle class (and not seem privileged). However, what they're describing might also be very typical of New England and North Atlantic waspy old money people.

[CWebster]

164. Frugality is a lifestyle

it is not miserly,as you are attempting to imply, but resourceful and responsible as opposed to conspicous consumption, gluttony and greed. It is a state of mind that is conscious of unnecessary waste and the the need to conserve resources.

In my book this is a highly admirable traitespecially in these times and those who twist it to serve their political purposes or putdowns should be ashamed of themselves.

[dkf]

140. He gave his entire tax cut to his church.

http://www.spiritucc.org/newsletter/ucc.html

One way Dean has shown that support was after the first round of President Bush's so-called tax rebates for "middle-class Americans." The congregation's board of trustees suggested that members of the church, who were able, consider donating part of those funds to ministries for the poor. "One of the first letters I received in response to that appeal was from the Governor of Vermont's office, with a check for his entire tax rebate," Lee says.

That response, Lee says, is Dean's faith at work. "At the core of Howard Dean is a passionate commitment to seeing society respond generously and effectively to those who are in need," says Lee. Dean exhibits "a sense of impatience with those who would play loose with that." Lee says that, for him, that's like a breath of fresh air.

[AP]

166. I'm not sure you want to brag that his big act of charity was giving away

the thing he keeps telling the middle class they're not going to miss one bit.

[Cheswick2.0]

144. spin spin spin

nice job. He is absolutely correct on the tax cuts being worth nothing when all you other expenses are driven up because of it. I suppose he'd be a better Christian if he spent more money at the mall too huh?

[quaker bill]

42. Live simply that others may simply live

Because I choose to live simply, fix my own plumbing, drive an old car, etc... I have enough cash to freely donate to candidates and causes I wish to support.

Howard Dean would be on that list.

Thre is virtue in this approach to life.

[cryofan]

46. he wants to raise retirement age for 70, he wants to cut social security

and he wants to cut social security, Medicare and veterans benefits, he feels under no pressure to promote the Democratic agenda, he hopes the Lefties would just go away.....


Of course, if you were born into a wealthy family like Dean, these mundane worries about retirement and veterans benefits don't really matter.

Read about what Dean thinks about the left and the social safety net, in Dean's own words:


>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Most of the Democrats in the legislature rebelled against Dean over the budget cuts, and he ended up depending on Republican votes to pass most of his proposals. At the time, a local Vermont newspaper wrote, "The biggest items on Dean’s agenda for next year are likely to provoke more opposition from the Democrats than the Republicans. Nevertheless, Dean said he feels no particular pressure to deliver the goods to his party or to promote the Democratic agenda."15

In the mid-1990s, Dean even aligned himself with the likes of Republican Newt Gingrich on his stance on cutting Medicare. He opined at the time, "The way to balance the budget is for Congress to cut Social Security, move the retirement age to 70, cut defense, Medicare and veterans pensions, while the states cut everything else."16
....
The Rutland Herald described how one protestor, Henrietta Jordan of the Vermont Center for Independent Living, "said it would be much fairer to raise taxes on people with expensive homes and cars, children in private school and a housekeeper at home than to cut programs that helped the 66,000 Vermonters living with disabilities."17 Dean responded callously, brushing off the pleas of Vermont’s most vulnerable by saying, "This seems like sort of the last gasp of the left here."18"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


The rest of this article is here:
http://www.isreview.org/issues/32/dean.shtml

[AP]

48. And what do you gain from reducing the size of government?

Lower corporate taxes, so that corporations can be miserly, and sit on their huge assets, and not have to work hard to stay rich.

Force others to simply live, so that the rich can live large.

[MercutioATC]

70. Well, another baldfaced lie surfaces (yet again).

How many times has this been dealt with?

Dean said, 8 years ago, that raising the SS retirement age might be something to look at. That's hardly "wanting" to do it. Since, he's said that circumstances have changed and he no longer feels this is necessary.

Dean also said that he thought Medicare was very poorly run and that it might be necessary to limit spending increases. That's not a cut.

However, the biggest single factor that makes your post a complete lie is that you state that Dean "wants" to do things...things that he's never "wanted" to do and things that are all years in the past (and that he's clearly ststed that he no longer believes are necessary). To imply he still holds these positions is dishonest.

Is it accurate for me to say "Kucinich wants to take away a woman's right to choose" or "Clark thinks the Republicans are doing a good job"? No, it's a lie designed to make an impact at the expense of honesty.


That's exactly what your post is.

[cryofan]

89. How can Dean's exact quotes be a lie? You called me dishonest. How so?

I gave exact quotes. You have failed to refute them. And you have said I am dishonest. PLease provide evidence of my dishonesty or retract.

[Tom Rinaldo]

51. It's a fun list

Thanks for posting it. It's always good to see glimpses of the human being inside all of our candidates. I'll save the thread too. Though I'm not backing Dean now I will later if he's our nominee. Good stuff.

[Name removed]

56. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Cuban_Liberal]

57. 18a.) = Paper trail of Democratic credentials.

:)

[Cuban_Liberal]

58. They sound like an amazingly ordinary couple.

Nice article. Thanks for posting the link. :)

[Maddy McCall]

62. A paper trail that would be great to see if he would unseal his records

Selectively choosing which documents to open and which to keep sealed says that he sanitized his history as a public servant in Vermont. He owes ALL voters, including his own supporters, better than this.

[Cheswick2.0]

145. nice side lateral arabesque

2 points for pointless smear

[bitchkitty]

171. That statement is so silly -

Only a general can win? You sure about that?

I wasn't aware that Clinton was a General. I wasn't aware that Gore was a General. I wasn't aware that Kennedy was a General. I wasn't aware that Carter was a General.

[Arwennick]

60. What I get from this Interview

........is that Mr.Dean would not hesitate to balance his budgets off the backs of the middle class,the poor and the disabled.Just as he did in Vermont.
I cannot force myself to vote for this type person under any circumstance,ever.

[Toucano]

61. Yikes!

If he's the nominee, I sure as heck will vote for him. He can't be worse than what we have now and not voting for the nominee is a vote for the incumbent.

I can see the same thing you see in this list, so we'd just have hold him accountable if he were to try anything like that.

[jmaier]

63. KK

Thanks for the links. I really enjoyed the interview and it's always fun to read up close and personal stuff about our candidates' lives.

[bigwillq]

64. A candidates personal live sometimes makes or breaks it for me

There were so many of those 17 things I didn't know. Like he was a big Outkast, Wyclef and Dylan fan. I would love to go to a concert with Dean.

[AP]

66. Don't expect Howard to pay for your ticket or buy you a beer.

And you better bring cab fare for the ride home.

[Name removed]

71. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[beaconess]

72. ha ha ha

n/t

[ozone_man]

75. But you might get health care and education benefits. ;-)

You don't get something for nothing, and Bush's tax cut is really a tax increase, if you understand that the interest on our debt must be paid by our children.

Dean just understands economics.

[AP]

93. But don't expect the rich to pay for them through progressive taxation.

Dean will give you a few things, but he'll make you pay through the nose for them.

Just like the Tories in the UK with NHS.

[MercutioATC]

96. Do you realize how little sense you make?

Dean's plan repeals the Bush tax "cut" (which was mostlt a cut for the extremely wealthy), uses the money to provide benefits such as universal healthcare and better funding for public education (hardly spending that benefits the wealthy), balances the budget (a boon to ALL Americans), and then allows for tax cuts for the middle class.

What intelligent issue could you possibly have with this?

[AP]

98. I know that some people don't agree with me. But I know I'm making sense.

Dean would rather ask the middle class to pay more taxes than ask rich individuals and corporations to pick up some of the burden that they've increasingly avoided since 1972.

Dean is simply not interested in making a central issue of allocating the tax burden in way that is both more fair, and makes more economic sense (ie, shifting it off earned income and on to unearned income).

I don't know how anyone could be confused about this.

[KaraokeKarlton]

103. Where in the article or interview were taxes discussed?

Or sealed records, or skiing, or Vietnam or even policy and politics in general?

This article and interview were about the private and personal lives of Howard and Judy Dean. Why are Dean opponents posting criticism on policy on a thread that has nothing whatsoever to do with Dean's policies?

[AP]

107. I can't answer for the people who brought up Vietnam, but implicit in this

article is a discussion of class and wealth. Explicit in the discussion of tax policy is the issue of class and wealth. The link is obvious, to me.

[KaraokeKarlton]

115. There is no mention of tax policy anywhere in the article or the interview

This article and interview is entirely about the private and personal lives of a presidential candidate and his wife. They aren't talking about policies or politics. They are talking about their life. Talking about taxes is off topic.

[KaraokeKarlton]

117. Please stop responding to off topic posts on this thread

it only encourages more off topic posts and rewards those who seek to derail any positive thread about Howard Dean.

I meant to make this a response to the original post. Oh well, I doubt anyone will listen anyhow.

[AP]

121. Are you talking to yoruself?

To whom is this a reply?

[AP]

119. To me, it says a great deal about class.

As I said below, I think the reason it is People Magazine is because of Dean's problems with class.

[Cheswick2.0]

146. Do you normally expect people to pay your way?

I don't

[AP]

169. When I'm out with people I know are struggling, I might not ask them to

pay me back for the ticket. I'll buy a round or two, and maybe I'll pick up the cab fare.

[KaraokeKarlton]

120. You're welcome

Unfortunately this thread is headed quickly toward the toilet with off topic posts. I hate when one of the few positive threads posted on here gets hijacked. This is the nonsense that makes me wonder why I even bother coming here anymore. :shrug:

[RoeBear]

69. I found two reasons not to vote for Dean...

My first reason " He drinks generic ginger ale and snacks to save money. "

I'm from Michigan, there is no reason to drink ginger ale if it's not Vernors.

My second reason " Asked his favorite food indulgence, he responds: fish. (He later amends this to chocolate chip cookies.)"

My God can't we get an honest answer out of this man. One second it's fish then it's cookies. What's next is he going to claim his favorite food is 'fish cookies'? I mean if Bush had been like this he might still be deciding on invading Iraq, wait that's a good thing.

:evilgrin:

[MercutioATC]

73. My criteria for choosing a President, too!

I'll never vote for anybody who answers a question about his favorite dish with an entree and then switches to a dessert and I'll CERTAINLY never vote for a candidate who drinks generic soft drinks.

(we need an "asshat" smilie)

[askew]

77. Thanks for posting the article.

It was really interesting. They come across as a caring, normal couple. I actually like that he is so open with his cheapness. His ability to laugh at himself and not take himself too seriously is refreshing in this day and age.

[Name removed]

78. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

81. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LizW2]

82. Oh my god, Dean and my husband were separated at birth!

Taped together shoes. The thermostat wars. Been there, done that.

I finally bought my husband a programmable thermostat. He can program the heat for different settings at different times of day and night. And best of all, he can push a button and see a display of how many minutes the furnace has run in the last 24 hours. He adores this.

[AP]

101. Let Ma Dean know. You could be in for a couple million bucks in the will.

[Walt Starr]

84. This is a man that can return this nation to budget surpluses

and reverse the national debt ticker!

[Name removed]

88. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Walt Starr]

92. Could I have a source cited for your assertion.

Thank you.

[Walt Starr]

152. I am still waiting for a source on your assertion

both on the diagnosis of Doctor Dean and what it means.

[SayitAintSo]

91. I'm not a Dean fan at this time, BUT I found this very helpful

It's nice to know the human side of the candidates. I just wish he wouldn't go so negative. His latest crack about Clark being a Republican was pretty over the top for me. He needs to stop that ... I think his poll numbers are reflecting his negativity .

[KaraokeKarlton]

106. He said it because that's what he honestly believes about Clark

People don't have to agree with him, and are certainly entitled to their own opinion. I think Dean's criticism of him has merit and I agree with him. Basically, Dean is stating his beliefs and regardless of how politically correct it is or isn't, it's his opinion, and with Dean you always know what he thinks about something because he will tell you straight up.

[Cheswick2.0]

147. I am glad we have a candidate willing to tell the truth

about all kinds of politicians.

[AP]

94. Compare Dean to Edwards.

1) Hurricane -- after a devestating hurricane in NC, Edwards rented a big truck, went to Home Depot, bought a lot of stuff, and drove to the devestated community and gave it away. This was before he was a politician.

2) Foundation -- after his son died, the Edwards family took a lot of their own money and started a foundation and a center for kids to use after school.

3) Santa Claus -- apparently at Christmas Edwards buys presents for kids, dresses as Santa and gives them away.

In that list of things Dean does, I saw a lot of things I do. In that list of things Edwards has done, I see nothing that I've done. It may make me feel better about myself to spend an afternoon with Dean. However, I'd rather have a President who was generous, who understood the REAL value of a dollar, and who appealed to my best instincts.

[PassingFair]

95. Compare Dean to Edwards?

Pretty easy if you're making up one of the "lists" yourself. Are you an expert on Dean's charitable donations?
As a doctor, I expect that Dean has saved a life or two in the course of his job. Oooops! Didn't make the list.

"In that list of things Edwards has done, I see nothing that I've done" Huh?
You've never bought presents for kids and given them away?
You've never performed an act of charity?
You say that you are diametrically opposed to all of Dean's stances...
You are against a health plan that stands a chance of passing Congress?
You are against balancing the budget?
You are against taking on the media monopolies?
You are against the repeal of the Patriot acts?
You are against the re-mortaring of the church/state wall of separation?
You are against standing up to the Neo-Con's imperialist aspirations?

Not meant as a personal attack, but you have been making these personal assumptions as statements of fact.

It would be easier for me, also, to get behind a carpenter or a railsplitting son of a no'count farmer. But I'll take this earthly prince. Buddha was born rich, too you know.

[AP]

97. It's more about the image Dean is trying to sell.

If Dean has charitable donations, the campaign should playing that up, rather than his cheapness.

Once again, I note that this People story (doesn't Time-Warner own People?) is designed to make dean seem less privileged.

But it does something inadvertant. It makes you wonder what a rich guy is doing acting so cheap.

On the other hand, what we know about Edwards is that he has started a foundation, has given his time to charity, and apparently, he didn't think twice about buying a lot of stuff from Home Depot and helping victims of a storm. Maybe Edwards is cheap like Dean (I hear he and his wife go to Wendy's on their anniversary because that's what they did when they first got married). But the campaign doesn't want people to think of Edwards as cheap. They want people to think of him as a generous guy who would help the less fortunate.

I'd rather have that guy as president.

In response to your question, I've never bought out home depot to help victims of a storm, I've never given thousands of dollars to start a charitable foundation, and I never dressed as santa and gave out presents to people I didn't know.

However, if you must know, one year I donated about $30,000 worth (measured by oppotunity cost) of my time to a non-profit (and I never recovered it as a tax deduction -- and I didn't have a 4 million dollar cushion while I was doing this), and had a great time doing it, and really helped at least three people (one of them in the form of cash, one in terms of not being deported, and a third in terms of just having someone take her problems seriously, although she ended up not getting what she sought in material terms). Yet, this isn't about me...except to the extent that it might explain why I like Edwards and am a little offended by Dean.


And re those Dean positions you cite:

- Dean's health care plan ain't all that great and it won't be passed. I see Edwards plan as being smarter and more likely to result in UHC.

- Hoover wanted to balance the budget, but didn't like progressive taxation, and drove us to the Depression. Dean would do the same. Clinton said recently that one thing all Dems agree about is defecit spending in bad times. Well, that's all Dems except one.

- Against media monopolies? I don't think Time-Warner would like him so much if he were going to threaten their hegemony. I'll wait until I hear exactly what Dean thinks he's going to do about that before I judge. Haven't heard anything yet.

- Repeal Patriot Act? What's the difference between him and any other candidate on this issue?

- Church and state? Other candidates aren't for this? This is a defining issue for Dean?

- Imperialist aspirations? Again, AFAICT, Dean's not much different than the rest.

Didn't Buddha give away all his money? It' "kills" Dean to spend a little of his. I don't think the Buddha would be impressed.

[MercutioATC]

104. I'm sorry that "frugal" becomes "cheap" in your world...

Does Dean have family money? Of course. Did he leave a job on Wall Street to pursue medecine...working in inner-city neighborhoods? Yes.

Personally, my family income is less than Dean's and I buy the occasional Italian suit...I think it's great that he finds an $800 suit expensive. I also think it's great that we finally have a candidate that realizes one real truth: a balanced budget does more for the economy than nearly anything else (unless you count $1.3 trillion government giveaways).

I don't know why I bother sometimes...

:asshat:
(yes, I know there's no "asshat" smilie, but I want one)

[PassingFair]

113. So now you're omnipotent?

"Dean's health care plan ain't all that great and it won't be passed" I think your crystal ball has a crack in it.

"Hoover wanted to balance the budget, but didn't like progressive taxation" What? I've NEVER seen Dean quoted as being for a straight tax. What do you mean by this?

"Against media monopolies?...Haven't heard anything yet." I don't have time to try to find the quote, but he clearly stated to Chris Matthews during his Hardball interview that he was going to go up against Baby Powell and outFOX the FCC.

"Repeal Patriot Act...what's the difference between him and any other candidated on this...?"
Edwards VOTED FOR the Patriot Act. Big difference.

"Church and State separation...other candidates aren't for this?" Lieberman's the lyricist for the ballad of "Faith Based Initiatives" The other candidates are afraid to tackle this issue at all. "I'm TIRED of fundamentalist preachers telling me what to do" -Howard Dean.

"Imperialist aspirations...again, not much different from the rest". Only, Edwards, Kerry, Gephardt and Lieberman authorized PNAC's little piccadillo.

Dean isn't trying to "SELL" any image. This is the person he is. A straight talking, can-do guy, who is not afraid to take it on the chin. And boy, is he taking it on the chin. If you don't like him, don't vote for him.

So you've decided for yourself that Dean cannot get through your narrow needle to heaven. And now I see that you have prejudged him before Buddha, too.

[AP]

116. No, I'm OPINIONATED.

Not familiar with Hoover, eh? Well, like Dean, Hoover believed in balanced budgets. When the economy was doing poorly, all he wanted to do was balance the budget. But he didn't want to force the rich to bear that burden, so he loaded up the middle class with taxes. The middle class was crushed by the burden.

Sound familiar?

[PassingFair]

176. Not ringing a bell...

Why do you make a statment that implies that Dean will load up the middle class with taxes? The middle class is already being crushed, not by a tax burden, but by having the rug pulled out from under us in terms of jobs and economic activity. 5 years ago I paid more in TAXES than I made in all of last year, and from the looks of some of the posts in DU, other small business owners are faring no better. When my income was high, I didn't bitch about how much I paid in taxes, good government COSTS.
Your comparing Dean to Hoover is ludirous and unwarranted hyperbole. Howard will tax the rich, don't worry.
I won't knock your chosen candidate. But I think your misguided advocacy is hindering, not helping him. After all, a quick look at your sig line show the net effect of your baseless attacks.

Amount of DU support $ 0....................

[Name removed]

149. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[AP]

154. Don't assume anything. But you can try to do a close reading of

whatever you see the campaing trying to tell you about the candidate.

I suggest you start with Four Trials.

See what you can find in there and argue what you think it says about Edwards.

[Name removed]

100. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[AP]

102. This isn't about me. I'm deconstructing the People Mag story and placing

it in the context of this campaign. I think it's spin to address a real problem with Dean's biography. But I think it backfires for the reasons I am arguing.

[MercutioATC]

109. Oh, what absolute poo...

It was a People Magazine interview. Since when did they do anything other than fluff?

It could have been any candidate. People was interested in bringing Dean's human side to light. I think they probably got an honest picture.

You call your posts deconstruction? Yes, you analyze, but with a long-standing negative bias. YOU brought up "spin". Can you honestly say that you're not also spinning here?

Judging from the last post I had removed, it appears that I'm not permitted to access the character of your posts as a whole. Let's just say my post title just about sums it up.

[AP]

111. If there were three things I could aks for and recieve in 2004...

...it would be to have voters think more intelligently and critically about three issues:

- race,
- taxes, and
- class

This People Mag interview says volumes about class issues. In fact, I believe it's designed to smooth over some class problems for the Dean campaign.

You may think I'm spinning, but what I'm really trying to do is to get people to think harder about these class issues.

[MercutioATC]

123. Again. POO...

It's nice that you think about race issues, taxes and class. I happen to agree with the statement that everybody should be conscious of these issues.

The People interview is what every People interview is...Dean did not get any kind of "free ride".

I've already said that Edwards is my #2 choice and I'm not going to abandon that position (or any other) based on obnoxious supporters. However, I want to go on record as saying that I feel that your Dean posts are mean-spirited and often misleading. I challenge you to find a post of mine that criticizes a candidate without a strong factual basis.

We all have our opinions...we can choose how to express them...I'd like to think that I spend the majority of my time here extolling the virtues of my candidate..not attacking other candidates.

Do what you're comfortable with...

[AP]

124. What I'm comfortable with is doing a really close, really informed cultura

and political critique.

Just because you don't agree with me doesn't mean I'm not basing my arguments on facts and good logic.

I challenge you to find anything in my posts which can't be supported by facts and arguments.

[Cheswick2.0]

148. compare Dean's polling numbers and organization with Edward's

I think that is the basis of your problem with him.

[AP]

155. As I've said numerous times: If Edwards disappeared from face of the earth

it wouldn't make Dean the best candidate running.

Also, there are several candidates ahead of Edwards. However, Dean definitely gives me the most with which to disagree in terms of class, race, taxes, and political philosophy generally.

[bitchkitty]

174. Bingo -

folks, we have a winner. I've been refraining from comment on these posts but I'm getting a good laugh this morning.

[AP]

175. Most recent polling from Iowa: Edwards up 10 to 17 in a week. Dean 19

down from 26(?).

Ok I've compared Dean and Edwards. Now what?

[foo_bar]

110. I'm a little confused

"Interestingly, in my family, when we were little, television was somewhat of a bonding experience. When we were young my father was very busy, he came home late every night and he didn't see us much. But when he came home, we'd watch The Three Stooges together, Abbott and Costello. We thought that was just terrific stuff. We'd just sit there and watch it together."

Two questions later:

"But I mean in general, I'm not a fan of TV. I grew up without a TV."

http://people.aol.com/people/features/peoplespecial/0,10950,576954-3,00.html

[KaraokeKarlton]

126. He said when they were little

they watched those shows with their father. He also said that they spent their free time on Long Island and didn't have a TV there. It sounds to me like they had tv when the boys were very young and then did away with it at some point.

[AP]

128. My guess: his memories are of Park Ave, where they had TV.

Wasn't their estate pretty far out on L.I., not within easy daily comuting distance?

If his father was coming home late from work (ie, if it was a work night), they were probably in their Park Ave apartment.

[KaraokeKarlton]

127. Please lock this thread

I'd rather see it locked than continue to watch it turn into an off topic train wreck.

Thanks.

[CWebster]

168. Well it is amusing

If the best they can do is shriek about his economic bent--something Dean himself jokes about, when the platform they are standing on is a little shaky. A million dollar trial lawyer is not exactly the image that comes to mind for most people as someone with a strong conscience about how they amass mass fortunes. Fighting for the little guy? What's the cut?

[Cheswick2.0]

156. I like this section

Q: The JC Penney suit has been retired?
Howard: Oh, no, I still have it in the closet, waiting. It's lurking, waiting to pounce on me sometime. I wore it once during the campaign. I went to Boston. We had a really big rally and it was raining. I didn't want to wreck a really good suit and so I figured if the JC Penney suit got rained on it would just be fine. It worked great.

Q: You've said that you still want to be a doctor, you don't want to be a first lady, you want to maintain your practice. Can you talk about some of your concerns or reticence about being a traditional first lady?
Judy: I haven't really thought that far ahead. I just really like practicing medicine and I would think whatever happens I would continue to do medicine in some way. I'm not sure it would be the same kind of practice I have now. But, you know, that's what I do full-time. I really like it, and, um, I'm good at it.