Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

YUP-Gallup does it again, this time in Florida

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU
 
59millionmorons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-26-04 12:23 PM
Original message
YUP-Gallup does it again, this time in Florida
More oversampling

Likely Voter Sample
TOTAL: 768
Rep: 341 (44%)
Dem: 273 (36%)
Ind: 146 (19%)

Registered Voter Sample
TOTAL: 909
Rep: 387 (43%)
Dem: 321 (35%)
Ind: 187 (21%)


ARG: Kerry 49, Bush 46 (10/25)
Insider Advantage: Kerry 46, Bush 46 (10/24)
Miami Herald: Kerry 46, Bush 46 (10/21)
Rasmussen: Kerry 48, Bush 48 (10/24)
Research 2000: Kerry 48, Bush 47 (10/21)
Survey USA: Kerry 50, Bush 48 (10/24)
Zogby: Bush 48, Kerry 47 (10/24)



http://www.mydd.com/story/2004/10/26/124455/58#comment_top
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
sharp_stick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-26-04 12:28 PM
Response to Original message
1. Is the oversampling getting worse?
Likely voters 44% Rep to 36% Dem, wasn't it something like 39% Rep and 34% Dem last week and just a couple of weeks ago closer to 36% Rep and 33% Dem?

Do they actually defend their methodology or just feed it to CNN and USAToday for immediate dissemination. The whole "War is Peace" kind of thing.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-26-04 12:30 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. yes, there seems to be an inverse correlation
between *'s slide and Gallup's oversampling.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Droopy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-26-04 12:28 PM
Response to Original message
2. And the bastards are one of the most used polling companies
in the country. How can a legitimate news organization look at numbers like that and still report the poll results? At the very least they should say the polls are skewed towards Republicans.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
59millionmorons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-26-04 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. Have you ever considered
Edited on Tue Oct-26-04 12:31 PM by demdem
That we on the internet are smarter and more informed than those reporting the news. It is likely they don't even realize that Gallup is oversampling. In 2000 in Florida the breakdown was 40% Dem and 38% Reps and 22% Indy's.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-26-04 12:28 PM
Response to Original message
3. There is no way they can consistently over-poll Republicans,
unless they're doing it intentionally.

Especially in Florida, where we are so clustered by party.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
deadmessengers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-26-04 12:32 PM
Response to Original message
6. How are they justifying this?
Has anyone gotten a statement from a PR flack at Gallup explaining WHY they appear to oversample Repugnicans in their polls? They've got to have SOME justification for it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
skjpm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-26-04 12:37 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. Because Republicans are white males
who know where their polling places are. Democrats are black, female, Hispanic, who are, well, you know, not as bright as white males, and therefore, they probably won't vote anyway.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-26-04 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. That's What Gallup Is Basically Saying In Polite Language
nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tritsofme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-26-04 12:44 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. This is what they say:
Some consumers of the polls (including the Gallup Poll) have questioned poll results because party identification and other characteristics do not match the 2000 exit poll data. There are very good reasons why they may not match the exit poll data.

First, some treat the exit poll as a census. It is not a census, it is a survey based on sampling of voting precincts. There is a reason it is called an "exit poll" and not an "exit census." That's because it is a poll, and as such is subject to sampling variation and other polling errors just as any other poll would be. In fact, because exit polling relies on quota sampling (hand selection of survey spots according to population size and other factors), it has a higher degree of potential error than do the random samples on which telephone surveys are based. Thus, there is no basis on which to believe the exit poll numbers are in any way more accurate than any other number you get from a poll. They are all estimates. The one advantage of the exit poll is that they know everyone they interview is a voter, while pre-election polls rely on models to determine who is likely to vote and who is not. However, that does not mean their estimates are necessarily better, and they are definitely not error-free estimates of the electorate as many treat them. In fact, when multiple exit polls existed in the past, they very routinely differed in their estimates of the vote as well as their estimates of the demographic characteristics of the electorate. Even today the Los Angeles Times exit poll differs from the larger exit poll used by the networks.

Second, the exit poll measure of political party ID is fundamentally different from ours. We know that survey results can differ depending on how the data are collected. Our questions are read and responses obtained verbally over the phone. Their responses are obtained in self-administered questionnaires that present the questions in a visual format. Most survey research experts would be extremely cautious in comparing data obtained by a telephone interview versus that obtained in a self-administered paper-and-pencil questionnaire. That is in addition to question wording differences in the party ID question that can also have an effect on the results.

Third, a lot has changed since 2000. In the post-9/11 environment, terrorism has become one of the chief problems for government to deal with. The Republican Party has a large perceptual advantage on the terrorism issue. To assume that everything is as it was four years ago is a very risky assumption. While it is possible that in the end things could change once again so that partisanship looks much like it did in 2000, that is by no means certain or even likely.
http://www.gallup.com/election2004/BLOG/
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-26-04 12:53 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. I'll See Gallup And Raise Them
October 21, 2004

A Reply to Gallup's Reply to Critics
By Alan Abramowitz

Jeff Jones of Gallup recently posted this reply to critics on their editors' blog:

Some consumers of the polls (including the Gallup Poll) have questioned poll results because party identification and other characteristics do not match the 2000 exit poll data. There are very good reasons why they may not match the exit poll data.
First, some treat the exit poll as a census. It is not a census, it is a survey based on sampling of voting precincts. There is a reason it is called an "exit poll" and not an "exit census." That's because it is a poll, and as such is subject to sampling variation and other polling errors just as any other poll would be. In fact, because exit polling relies on quota sampling (hand selection of survey spots according to population size and other factors), it has a higher degree of potential error than do the random samples on which telephone surveys are based. Thus, there is no basis on which to believe the exit poll numbers are in any way more accurate than any other number you get from a poll. They are all estimates. The one advantage of the exit poll is that they know everyone they interview is a voter, while pre-election polls rely on models to determine who is likely to vote and who is not. However, that does not mean their estimates are necessarily better, and they are definitely not error-free estimates of the electorate as many treat them. In fact, when multiple exit polls existed in the past, they very routinely differed in their estimates of the vote as well as their estimates of the demographic characteristics of the electorate. Even today the Los Angeles Times exit poll differs from the larger exit poll used by the networks.

Second, the exit poll measure of political party ID is fundamentally different from ours. We know that survey results can differ depending on how the data are collected. Our questions are read and responses obtained verbally over the phone. Their responses are obtained in self-administered questionnaires that present the questions in a visual format. Most survey research experts would be extremely cautious in comparing data obtained by a telephone interview versus that obtained in a self-administered paper-and-pencil questionnaire. That is in addition to question wording differences in the party ID question that can also have an effect on the results.

Third, a lot has changed since 2000. In the post-9/11 environment, terrorism has become one of the chief problems for government to deal with. The Republican Party has a large perceptual advantage on the terrorism issue. To assume that everything is as it was four years ago is a very risky assumption. While it is possible that in the end things could change once again so that partisanship looks much like it did in 2000, that is by no means certain or even likely.


My reply:

Mr. Jones's comments are inaccurate and misleading. First of all, yes, the national exit poll is based on a sample. But it's a huge sample--over 13,000 respondents in 2000. Because of its size, and because, as Jones acknowledges, the exit poll includes only individuals who have definitely voted, the margin of error should be much smaller than with pre-election telephone polls. Second, there is no reason to believe that a self-administered questionnaire would produce significantly different results from a telephone survey for an attitude as basic as party identification as long as the question asked is worded identically. The problem with the Gallup party ID question, as I have indicated elsewhere, is that it is a poorly worded question. Because of its lead-in, "in politics today," the Gallup question, in contrast to the question used by the National Election Studies, the CBS/New York Times Poll, and the national exit poll, measures a combination of current political preferences along with long-term partisan commitment. Finally, and this is most important, there is simply no reason to believe that the distribution of party identification in the American electorate has changed significantly since the 2000 presidential election.

Indeed, an examination of national exit polls and CBS/New York Times polls conducted since 1992 shows that there has been no significant change in party identification for the past 12 years despite wars, recessions, and quite variable election results. Even in the immediate aftermath of the September 11th attacks, the CBS/New York Times polls found no noticeable change in the distribution of party identification. The distribution of party identification in CBS/New York Times polls this year, approximately a four point Democratic advantage, is almost identical to the average for the past 12 years. It is therefore highly unlikely that the distribution of party identification in this year's national exit poll will differ substantially from that in the previous four national exit polls, all of which showed a Democratic advantage of between
3 and 5 points.

Unfortunately, Mr. Jones's comments are typical of the head-in-the-sand attitude that the Gallup Poll has displayed in recent years in response to any criticism of their work. During the 2000 campaign, we would remind readers, the Gallup tracking poll was the laughingstock of the polling community as its likely voter results gyrated wildly from week to week and sometimes from day to day, producing a ludicrous estimate of a 13 point lead for George Bush on October 26th. Although Gallup quietly abandoned their tracking poll this year, they continue to display the same arrogance and insensitivity to criticism that we saw then. Evidently party identification is not the only attitude that is impervious to change.

Posted by Ruy Teixeira at 05:06 PM | link | Comments (18)
Ruy Teixeira is a Senior Fellow at The Century Foundation and
the Center for American Progress








































Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
michigandem2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-26-04 12:48 PM
Response to Original message
9. honestly...
Edited on Tue Oct-26-04 12:49 PM by MelissaforKerry2004
what is the point of stacking the deck, so to speak...
i mean it isn't true..and it isn't relevant to WHAT is actually going to happen..I just dont' get who would buy this is a fair judgement of WHO is goign to vote on election day...the righties keep saying that because this election is so different that the undecideds might break for the incumbent..but why would they need them if 44% of their voters get out compared to our 34%...?? its stupid...and regardless of the polls..people are going to vote..how many do you know that will be detered by the polls and decide to stay home?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Fri Apr 26th 2024, 07:59 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC