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helleborient Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-04 05:37 PM
Original message
Californians Widely Favor Dean Among Democrats
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Demobrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-04 05:39 PM
Response to Original message
1. Northern CA is Dean/Kucinich territory.
I don't think I've ever even seen a bumper sticker for anyone else, much less met a supporter.
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Democrats unite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-04 05:46 PM
Response to Original message
2. Arn't these numbers how others polls started out in other Primaries?
But now that we are down to the wire, boy have the numbers changed.
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meti57b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-04 05:56 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Yes, I was going to say. ... "it's not over, 'till it's all over"!!
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David__77 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-04 05:57 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. CA genuinely is differnt politically than IA and NH, etc.
I really think that Dean and perhaps Clark will have a better time here than elsewhere. Dean is very ideologically compatible with CA Democrats from elected officials on down. We support abortion rights without restrictions and we support same sex unions - in other states, Democrats can be quite divided on these things.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-04 06:07 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. Not really. The media has been hiding Dean's ACTUAL record of governance
I don't think Californians will be too happy with it when they realize Dean's record doesn't match his rhetoric.

Dean to the LEFT of Lieberman? I don't think so. Lieberman is more liberal than Dean on civil liberties.

http://www.talkleft.com/archives/003739.html
……He once addressed a meeting of defense attorneys by stating that "my job is to make your job as difficult as possible." He is a man of his word, at least on this campaign promise. He did not want to fund public defense.

……Dean has made no secret of his belief that the justice system gives all the breaks to defendants. Consequently, during the 1990s, state’s attorneys, police, and corrections all received budget increases vastly exceeding increases enjoyed by the defender general’s office. That meant the state’s attorneys were able to round up ever increasing numbers of criminal defendants, but the public defenders were not given comparable resources to respond.

http://rogueimc.org/2003/11/1757.shtml
Dean, in 1999, wanted to refuse a $150,000 federal grant to the public defender's office for aiding mentally disabled defendants. "That was unusual, to say the least," says Appel. The state legislature overrode Dean's opposition. Dean spokesman Carson responded that Dean didn't want to create a program that the state couldn't afford to fund if federal money disappeared in the future. But he did not disavow Dean's anti-defendant bent. "This is a governor who was tough on crime and is a big believer in victims' rights," Carson says.

(Note:The state legislature overrode Dean's opposition and forced him to take it.)

Source: http://stacks.msnbc.com/news/912159.asp?cp1=1
Dean: “I got life without parole through our legislature. The problems with life without parole is that it’s not life without parole. There are always people who get out.”

http://richmond.indymedia.org/newswire/display/4371/index.php
.. “I’m looking to make it easier to convict guilty people and not have as many technicalities interfere with justice, and I’ll appoint someone to fit that bill”.

Asked if that reflected a “get-tough-on-crime” approach, Dean responded: “I’m looking for someone who is for justice. My beef about the judicial system is that it does not emphasize truth and justice over lawyering. It emphasizes legal technicalities and rights of the defendants and all that.” Such comments may play well with the general public, but they have sent a chill through the collective spine of lawyers – particularly defense lawyers – around the state.

http://rogueimc.org/2003/11/1757.shtml
He attempted an explanation of his support for capital punishment, even while agreeing that in some cases "the wrong guy" might be executed…. ...he thought the death penalty was preferable in some instances to a sentence of life without parole, Dean noted that in some instances criminals who are locked up for life might be freed on a legal "technicality" only to commit more horrible crimes. "That is every bit as heinous as putting to death someone who didn't commit the crime," he said.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A1907-2003Jul2?language=printer

William Cohen: …..In all my years writing about the death penalty, I have never heard any politician admit that he would countenance the death of an innocent person in order to ensure that the guilty die. Dean is maybe the first to acknowledge the unacknowledgeable. For that, I suppose, he ought to be congratulated. But by equating the murder of one individual by another with the murder of an innocent person by the government -- the unpreventable with the preventable -- he has casually trashed several hundred years of legal safeguards.

http://www.vpr.net/vt_news/stories/sharedlegacy/shared3.shtml
Vermont Public Radio, Bob Kinzel: "It's likely that Howard Dean's tenure in office will also have a long term effect on the state's criminal justice system. In his first years as Governor, Dean was often critical of judges who Dean thought did not hand down tough enough sentences. Over the last 10 years, Dean has appointed more judges than any previous governor and Dean describes his appointees as "law and order" judges. Dean's judicial philosophy appears to be having a significant impact - during his tenure as governor the average sentence handed down in Vermont has doubled - a situation that has led to an overcrowding of the state's prison system."
http://www.dissidentvoice.org/Articles8/Bister-Estrin-Jacobs_Dean.htm
His governorship was a campaign against reasonable approaches to substance abuse. ….. the only other option in his bag of tricks is tougher penalties. He has endorsed fully the National Governors Association's policy, which calls for increased involvement of law enforcement and disavows any form of legalization not only as a policy but also as a philosophy. In short, Dean not only believes in the war on drug users, but also would like to see it intensified.

…..While Dean vocalized his opposition to methadone treatment clinics and decried any efforts to reduce the penalties on marijuana use -- even labeling the latter as a gateway drug (a statistically questionable claim at best) -- the population of Vermont's prisons increased to potentially dangerous levels. There is a correlation between these two phenomena. The more police go after individuals who use drugs, and the more judges are instructed to put them in jail, the more prisoners there are. ……. according to the DEA, the number of drug arrests in Vermont increased under Dean's watch, peaking in the year 2001, with the imprisonment of women increasing by over 140%.

http://rogueimc.org/2003/11/1757.shtml
Robert Appel, former head of the state's public defender system, said he had constant clashes with Dean over funding for the service. According to Appel, Dean said on at least one public occasion that the state should spend less money providing the accused with legal representation, saying that "95% of criminal defendants are guilty anyway." He later claimed that he was kidding.

http://www.loper.org/~george/archives/2003/Aug/946.html
(He appointed) state judges who were willing to undermine the Bill of Rights. In a 1997 interview with the Vermont News Bureau, Howard Dean admitted his desire to expedite the judicial process by using such justices to 'quickly convict guilty criminals.' He wanted individuals that would deem 'common sense more important than legal technicalities.' Constitutional protections (legal technicalities) apparently undermine Dean's yearning for speedy trials. 
 



  
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joefree1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-04 06:19 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. Give us Californians a little more credit.
We're a diverse lot but all in all very well informed. Generalizing that we're suffering from mass ignorance won't win you any converts.

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Democrats unite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-04 06:54 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. Give you all more credit?
Need I mention who you Governor is?
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joefree1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-04 05:55 PM
Response to Original message
3. Woohooo
I'm in Los Angeles and a big Dean supporter. The MO here in San Fernando Valley is huge.


Images from Dean Rocks the House of Blues, Hollywood
From wtmusic http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=919849
From Joefree1 http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=921300

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elfin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-04 06:24 PM
Response to Original message
8. Probably partly because of Sheen and Reiner
Also - I think they perceive Dean as more "liberal" among the strongest tier due to this support. I think Clark or Kerry could come on very strong when they get closer to the primary. Could get down to money - between Dean and Kerry, then.
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RevolutionStartsNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-04 06:28 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Not Kerry
I can't imagine Kerry doing very well in Calif. Many Californians don't care for "Northeast Liberals", and even though Dean is also from the NE, he isn't perceived that way.

Also he hasn't spent 2 seconds out here. Calif. will be Dean Clark and Kucinich, other candidates will barely register IMO.
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rucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-04 06:57 PM
Response to Original message
11. I wonder who the hispanic community leans toward?
shrug:
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hellhathnofury Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-04 06:58 PM
Response to Original message
12. I plan to go canvasing this weekend,
the lead will widen. CA is Dean territory!
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meow mix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-04 07:09 PM
Response to Original message
13. searching for a state with a big Dean lead?
and you chose california?
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
dont worry it will melt, we the softest in the nation prolly.

after all - ARNOLD.
HELLO.. U KNOW ARNOLD?? well thats just how friggen soft we are.

im gonna have to save this one, will be good for a laf later.
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hellhathnofury Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-04 07:11 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. ?
I think Super Tuesday states do matter. Arnold maybe be horrible but we're still good Democrats.
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helleborient Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-04 08:08 PM
Response to Reply #13
17. Big leads in IL and Delaware today..big lead in Ohio recently..
It's not hard to find big leads for Dean.

Do you see a big lead for anyone in any other state? Edwards in his home state of North Carolina.
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Kathleen04 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-04 07:17 PM
Response to Original message
15. Californian..
for Clark here. :)

I don't know how tuned in CA is..I've seen a couple bumperstickers..2 for Dean, one for DK, and mine for Clark. But, March 2 is still awhile aways.
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TrueAmerican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-04 07:26 PM
Response to Original message
16. I am in California
And we are 100 percent for Clark. small sample size however.
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hellhathnofury Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-04 08:17 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. Actually it's a pretty reasonable sample size,
"436 likely Democrat and independent voters"

Thats nearly 3 times the size of Zogby's daily Iowa tracking.
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digitstatic Donating Member (12 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-04 10:41 PM
Response to Original message
19. I live in the Bay Area and I'm a Clark supporter
CA went through that whole "election" and many are still tuned out and tired of politics. I live in the East Bay suburbs and I haven't seen a Dean bumper sticker that I can recall. I did see a Kucinich one on the way to Oakland just the other day though...
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newyawker99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-16-04 06:39 AM
Response to Reply #19
20. Hi jgWC!!
Welcome to DU!! :toast:
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