The Christian Identity Movement, has anybody heard of this group?

[whistle]

...Here is a link that really shock me to my inner soul:

<snip>
Christian Identity and Christian America
Hate and Violence on the Religious Right

The Christian Identity movement is perhaps one of the most dangerous theological doctrines in America today. It is made all the more dangerous by the fact that so few people even realize that it exists, much less what exactly it represents. Christian Identity is the dominant theology of many active right-wing Christian groups, including many if not most Ku Klux Klan organizations

<link> http://atheism.about.com/library/FAQs/rr/blrr_ci.htm

I've been browsing through the various links and pages of this site. T have tried to be tolerant and understanding with my friends and neighbors who have have a more conservative and right wing view. But after reading the pages on this site, I am rapidly coming to the conclusion that we have much to fear from the religious right, especially those who are associated with Christian Identity. I had no idea such a group, apparently quietly working in the shadows to influence U.S. and world government in a most fanatical and intolerant way using any means possible to advance their cause, a Christian dominated if not exclusive America and Christian world order. Their influence over the political agenda and the Republican party and their sanctimonious and hypocritical criticism of any position or belief that does not agree or align with their principles and beliefs is condemned, censored and destroyed by any means they see fit. And the Christian Identity does not keep away extremists such as the KKK and White Supremacist groups as long as their relgious doctrine coincides with the Christian Identity's.

[Tim_in_HK]

1. Bunch of wackos, mostly

squirreled up in pockets of Idaho.

[GoneOffShore]

3. And the backwoods of Pennsyltucky - eom

[DELUSIONAL]

6. Their "leader" by the name of Butler just died

Some of the members are called Skin heads.

The TV stations in the Seattle area (back when they were doing investigative journalism) did reports on this group. Some members are found in rural areas of Washington and Montana.

[eataTREE]

2. If I recall correctly...

...they are a subspecies of white supremacists, who think that the descendants of Moses and God's Chosen People in the Bible are not the Jews but good white aryan Christians from Idaho like them. Modern Jews are impostors planted by Satan or some such nonsense.

[mitchum]

9. That's them! It was formerly known as British Israelism

[toddaa]

4. Don't confuse your RR groups

Christian Identity is a fringe of a fringe group. The real threat from the religious right comes from Christian Reconstructionists and Dispensationalists. They're the ones with the real power behind much of the GOP.

[murielm99]

5. Go to splcenter.org (Souther Poverty Law Center)

and click on their Intelligence Report.

This will bring you to a U.S. map with the hate groups by state. The Christian Identity movement is on their list. Click on it. It will give you a good overview of their beliefs, and a list of where they are by state and city.

:puke:

[gottaB]

7. The Christian Identity Movement did not die with Richard Butler

For example there are links between Christian Identity and the Council of Conservative Citizens.

Don't be distracted by the insanity of the "beliefs." Hatred, not theology, is the key to the solidarities between these movements. They use argument not to advance understanding, but to exploit ignorance and bigotry. That's all there is to it. If rightwing Christians want to disassociate themselves from this sorry lot, it's not sufficient for them to say that they are reasonable people who shun violence, or that they are neither bigoted nor ignorant. Clearly there's plenty of ignorance and bigotry to go around. What are rightwing Christians doing about ignorance and bigotry?

Besides the Anti-Defamation League site, also see the Southern Poverty Law Center for more about Christian Identity.

[doni_georgia]

8. Yeah they have several billboards between Atlanta and Macon

advertising that Saturday is the sabbath and Sunday is the sign of th beast. they are nutfucks of the worst kind.

[DELUSIONAL]

11. Interesting -- are these Seventh Day Adventists?

Or some other Saturday as Sabbath believing cult group??

I have relatives who are SDAs. Because they have tried to "convert" me for years I have learned the language this group uses and I can talk to the fundamentalists -- I feel a need to know what they are up to. These people don't use logic -- they are strictly Faith based. I doubt that bush's illogic and lies bothers this group -- I don't believe faith based people have cognitive dissonance.

Mark of the Beast is often used as code words by the SDA and other fundamentalist groups.

[doni_georgia]

12. Christian identity people believe in a Saturday sabbath

Mostly they are just freaking low-life white supremicists.

[demokatgurrl]

13. Jews and Seventh Day Adventists have Saturday sabbath

and as far as I know, neither is a "cult group". At least not the branch of Judaism I practice.

[DELUSIONAL]

15. no way am I referring to Judaism

rather to the cult members who use both the Old and New testaments -- and they adhere to the "Seventh Day is the Sabbath Day" strict biblical interpretation of the bible. There are also Seventh Day Baptists -- any others?? Correct me if I'm wrong -- but Judaism uses only what the Christians call the Old Testament?

Lately I have come to list the SDA as a cult -- because they have a faith based system. Their founding Prophet Ellen White has been exposed as a plagiarist -- and still they quote her writings as divinely inspired. Many former SDA members say that coming out of that religion for them was very similar to experiences of former cult members rejecting their programming. Powerful programming is part of the SDA indoctrination. I know and have known many people of the Jewish faith and they don't describe a deprogramming in order to leave their faith.

Basically I respect nearly all religions -- except the ones that require deep programming as part of their belief system. Many of the right wing fundamentalist nut religious sects and cults are the ones that frighten me -- because it is their way or death to all who don't agree with their world view.

[DELUSIONAL]

10. You are correct to fear these people

The Christian Identity groups are just part of a larger group of End Timers, Fundamentalists.

In the 1980s the Christian right took over the Washington State GOP/Republican party. For awhile there were two groups of republicans in WA.

The Seattle PI -- did a investigative report in the early 80s about how the religious right was able to take control of the Republican party. Washington has a caucus system -- and the religious right found that they could organize a neighborhood caucus and elect their own precinct leaders. The religious right at the time wasn't a member of either party and they looked at both parties in WA and decided the GOP was ripe for a take over. Back then we had some reasonable Republicans -- I was in the League of Women's Voters and worked with women of both parties in the county where I lived.

The responsible old line Republicans were ejected (more or less) from the party as the fundamentalists took over and began to lean hard right.

The GOP started floating really extreme candidates -- Ellen Craswell is one example of the right wing fundamentalists. She moved into a former democratic Senate seat -- claiming as her aim to clean up the legislature. All the hard right goals and talking points we hear now was foreshadowed in the newsletters that Craswell used to sent out to her district. In fact she had two newsletters -- one for the believers and one for the rest of her district. Craswell ran for WA state Governor in the 90s -- she lost!

Throughout the 80s and 90s the GOP became more radical -- and Washington State was split in half or so it seemed. The GOP platform had a racist statement regarding Indian Sovereignty not very long ago -- the statement was even too racists for the National GOP and was removed.

Now we have Rossi who is a GOP with many of the same views as Craswell -- but he has learned to sugar coat his message.

In the 1980s I talked to many of the newly emerging fundamentalists GOPers -- and they were talking big -- about taking over the US government and turning the US into a Theocracy. Some even claimed to have a hit list -- abortionists (both women who have had abortions and the medical professionals who provide the services), Gays, feminists -- the usual hate list of the fundamentalists.

There was a very good article in a small political journal by a writer who went underground in this movement -- she reported a story similar to the one I had heard from fundamentalists in rural areas of Washington.

So now in present time (TODAY) I am watching and reading some of the goals of these fundamentalist right wing nuts being accomplished. They have the guy they wanted as president -- and they have bigger plans for this nut's second term. I still have nightmares from the conversations I've had with these people. These are also known as End Timers -- who want a major conflict in the middle east which will bring about the events prophesied in the book of Revelations. And I see that bush is doing even this for this group of nuts.

The Southern Poverty Law center has done a wonderful job of tracking these nut cases -- who are widely found in rural areas throughout the US. Unfortunately most of the left, liberal, progressive, rational people of the US just couldn't believe that there are idiots out there who what to trash our efforts toward democracy and have ignored the reporting on the various right wing fundamentalists groups -- who are trying to take over the US.

[AntiCoup2K4]

14. Let's not confuse the regular fundies with Christian Identity

Granted, the fundies are often delusional enough, but they have NOTHING on the Identity racist fucks.

The Christian Identity types literally believe that the White race is the "True Israel" and that the Jews are impostors. Some of these Nazi groups are even rumored to be seeking connections with Muslim terrorist groups, thinking that a mutual hatred of Jews and the federal government is enough to base a partnership on.

I used to have regular online debates with a "reverend" from this group who was based in North Carolina, back in the days before the Internet as we know it today, when all discussion was done via bulletin board systems. Somehow I conned myself into a moderator position in the religous discussions section of a "patriots" board called "SurvNet". It was Freepville before there was a Freepville, only worse.

BTW, this was early 1995, and while I can't say Tim McVeigh himself was a member, some guys who thought just like him really were, and one of them posted a message once saying that the "zionist occupational government" would get a "warning shot" on April 19 :scared:

[DELUSIONAL]

16. So you've gone undercover also

In Washington State -- there was some merging at the fringes of the far right wing fundies with the Christian Identifies. It wasn't until the Christian Identity became violent that I started to hear my fundamentalists contacts condemning the extremist in Hayden Lake Idaho. There are so many small churches with unique names in this area -- not part of the mainline (or old time) Protestant Churches.

For awhile (1980s) there was a shared goal of installing a Theocracy style government -- the plan was to take over the school boards, then county elected offices, State offices, Governorships, Federal elected offices (Senate & Congress) and then President. By the late 1980s and into the 1990s the two groups split -- or I began hearing the fundies speak of the Christian Identity as being too extreme for their taste.

I still see the odd truck painted in camouflage with gun rack -- and then there are the trucks with the right wing Fundy messages -- anti abortion and the Fish symbol.

I've gotten too old to have the patience to listen to the fundies grand plans to take over the world -- to prepare for the second coming of Christ. But I do hope that someone else is going undercover to track what these idiot have planned for the future.