Bush is NUTS landing at Lancaster (KLNS)

[byronm]

I fly out of this airprot all the time - and i know sore sure the runway isn't safe for a 757 (Airforce 1) to land & takeoff on without closing nearby roads and causing a scene and putting people at risk.

Bush is supposedly landing AF1 on this runway:

imensions: 5398 x 150 ft. / 1645 x 46 m
Surface: asphalt/grooved, in good condition
Weight limitations: Single wheel: 65000 lbs
Double wheel: 92000 lbs
Double tandem: 146000 lbs


5398 feet long and only 150 feet wide and weight limit of 146,000 lbs...

I know the military has done touch and goes with large turbo-props but this has to be the worst..

I mean the typical empty weight of a 757 is 148,000 lbs and the typical runway at sea level empty weight with no fuel and luggae is over 4,100 feet.

Do we really need crazy stunts to get re-elected?

Do we really need Presidents ruining runways by landing way over gross?

Do we really have to shutdown entire towns for propoganda?

[Drifter]

1. I thought AF1 was a 747

and has been for a while.

On Edit: link
http://people.howstuffworks.com/air-force-one.htm

Cheers
Drifter

[byronm]

4. No way a 747 could land at KLNS

that would crush the runway just sitting there..

I make dents on the runway landing a cessna 172 sometimes :) can't imagine a 757 yet alone a 747!

[Bernardo de La Paz]

2. October Surprise? . . . (nt)

[punpirate]

3. If you're Bush...

... the answer is yes. AF1 pretty much mashed up a similar runway at the local Las Cruces, NM airport, too, recently.

Send the bill for repairs to the White House, and then just wait for a check....

[LizW]

5. Why would they do this?

Is it even safe?

[Cooley Hurd]

6. The USAF has several smaller VIP aircraft...

...not to mention Marine One. I wouldn't worry about (or hope for) it...;)

[byronm]

8. Its been slated as a 757.. they're noting it as the largest

aircraft to ever land in amish country

[Cooley Hurd]

11. A 757 landing on a 5000 ft strip isn't unheard of...

...however, the pilots will have to stand on the brakes and hit thrust-reverse upon landing to get her stopped.

[byronm]

7. I guess its really "Airforce II" but still plenty big enough..

AFII is a 757..

i was hoping the pres would be smart enough to land at harrisburg and chopper in - a little less risky and costly in repairs and closure of airport..

[Cooley Hurd]

10. Any fixed-wing aircraft the POTUS is abourd becomes AF1...

...even if he's in a Cessna 150 - it's the standard ATC callsign. AF2 is Cheney's aircraft callsign.:)

[MercutioATC]

24. Actually, ANY aircraft, fixed-wing or rotor if it belongs to the Air Force

If it's a Marine aircraft, Marine One.

Private or commercial aircraft, Executive One.

[jmowreader]

9. Air Force One isn't a 757, it's a 747

Do they have a smaller Air Force One for this kind of thing, or are they using the Air Force One he's been campaigning in for the last four years?

Add to your numbers that Air Force One is heavier than a regular 747.

I've been at airports that 747s worked alongside smaller heavies, and the difference is astounding--the smaller planes will go about halfway down the runway then take off, while the 747s need almost the whole thing. Unless Air Force One has JATO units, they might have to take the plane apart to get it out, or they'll just roll it off to the side and turn it into a Monument to Hubris.

When the Big Dog came to Fort Drum, where Wheeler-Sack Army Airfield doesn't have a runway big enough to land a 747, they flew him to a major airport in the 747 then transferred him to a DC-9 for the trip to Fort Drum. Bush would have landed the 747 at Drum then whined about not being able to get home in time for warm milk and cookies and Unka Dick reading him a bedtime story.

[MercutioATC]

16. Air Force 1 is whatever Air Force plane the President's on at the time.

Yes, he usually uses a 747 in "Air Force One" livery, but "1" os the designation for the President. Thus:

Air Force One is any Air Force aircraft the President's on.

Marine One (usually a helo) is whatever Marine aircraft the President's on.

Executive One is whatever commercial aircraft the President's on.

Air Force Two (etc.) is the designator for the VP.

Air Force One Foxtrot (etc.) is the First Lady.

Air Force Two Foxtrot (etc.) is the wife of the VP.

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Florida_Geek]

12. CORRECTION:

If Bush is in a Air Force Piper Club. It is Air Force 1. I would bet my paycheck the "call sign" of the Navy plane he did the carrier landing on was Navy 1.

The President of the United States aways flys Air Force/Marine/Navy 1.

[ET Awful]

15. Hehehe, great minds think alike :) - see my reply below n/t

[Florida_Geek]

13. No the Air Force pilot that allowed that is NUTS

[ET Awful]

14. Just as a point of clarification . . .

ANY aircraft the President is on that is operated by the Airforce is called Airforce One for the time it is used for such a purpose.

Just as any aircraft (traditionally a helicopter) operated by the USMC is Marine One.

[diplomats]

18. I live in Lancaster and the newspaper said tonight that it was

indeed a 757, the largest plane to land at the airport in 55 years. There were massive road closings, etc., around the airport, snarling traffic for commuters this morning. (Hope that made some people mad enough to vote for Kerry!)

Needless to say, I was nowhere the place today.

Incidently, hasn't Ron Reagan been terrific discussing the missing explosives today? He repeatedly says that it doesn't matter if the weapons disappeared before or after our troups were there. He was on the early Hardball and the special one at 9:00. He held his own with a Bush supporter on the earlier show. Go Ron!:yourock:

[DemoTex]

19. If you are correct on that airport weight limit of 146k ...

Then that was perhaps, exceeded, by my best estimate:

Operating empty with P&W engines 57,840kg (127,520lb), with RB211s 57,975kg (127,810lb). Basic max takeoff 99,790kg (220,000lb), medium range MTOW 108,860kg (240,000lb), extended range MTOW 115,665kg (255,000lb) or 115,895kg (255,550lb).

http://www.airliners.net/info/stats.main?id=101

It all depends on the fuel load. That runway length is not a problem for either a light B-747 or B-757. I watched AF-1 (B-747) land at Providence, RI, with Clinton on board with a 27-knot tailwind. I couldn't believe it. All Boeing aircraft that I have flown, and most airlines, have a 10-knot tailwind limitation on landings.

I have landed a Boeing 737-400 on 5000 feet with a stiff crosswind (Pasco, Wa, if my memory serves me). Not fun. Not for amateurs.

[yardwork]

20. but but but.......* HAD to land there to get a photo op with Amish people!

Everybody has to sacrifice. There's a war on!

/sarcasm off

[underpants]

21. Same goes for the USS Abraham Lincoln stunt

I disagreed with it not because it was pure politics and I knew it would come back to bite him in the ass but because he is the holder of the OFFICE of the Presidency-there have been those before him and, hopefully, those after him. Now I have learned that it was a slow flying plane and very safe* but the President should not take that risk.

*-the pilot who flew him on board died in Iraq a couple of months ago. Sad.

[yardwork]

23. *-the pilot who flew him on board died in Iraq a couple of months ago. Sad

That's interesting.

I'm not suggesting anything. It's just that he might have known something about what * did or didn't do while supposedly "flying" that plane, and maybe....

Never mind.

[Rebellious Republican]

22. Temperature and runway construction materials factor in as well

I used to fly on board P3 Orion's, not exactly a 757, but still pretty heavy. When you factor in the weight of a full crew, on board computers, ordinance so on and so forth.

We once landed at an airfield in Peru in the middle of summer, it was an extremely hot day, man did we leave some ruts in the asphalt.

It was like glue, probably sub standard construction anyway, however my point is, depending on the construction materials and temperature as to how much damage can occur.

My guess is that they factored this in and are fairly certain that it would be safe.