Keith Olbermann way off on Eminem

[Cocoa]

it's hard to say much about what Olbermann didn't like about "Mosh," because he didn't really say what he didn't like, he just made a few snide comments, and used a dismissive tone.

The closest I could figure, Olbermann thought the video isn't "subtle." (Although he didn't say it directly, he used sarcasm to say it.)

Anyway, duh! Of course it's not subtle! It's a protest song, and it's by Eminem for chrissakes. And what's the value in being subtle about Bush?

I emailed Olbermann and suggested that the time he devotes to the stupid O'Reilly story would better be used giving airtime to Eminem's great protest song.

[Uzybone]

1. Subtlety i.e kissing Bushs ass

the media is very good at subtlety.

[DefenseLawyer]

24. You obviously don't watch his show

because Olbermann might be the only talking head on tv that doesn't kiss Bush's ass. He may not be the perfect guy, but as cable loudmouths go, he consistently covers the stories that need to be covered, e.g. the Florida memo story today.

[NDFan]

2. Me no like Eminem

Even if he is anti-Bush.

[Cocoa]

4. did you see the video?

it's good, I suggest putting aside your opinions about Eminem and see the video.

[NDFan]

8. No thanks. nt

[Cocoa]

16. your loss

if nothing else, watching the video would give you something to contribute to discussions about the video.

[Name removed]

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[Lerkfish]

101. agreed. I'm no rap fan, but this video is great! the more I watch it..

the more the energy, and the message get through to me. I read the lyrics, and they are right on, it feels right, it accesses my anger at this administration.
It affects you viscerally, and that is good art, my friend.

Like I said, I usually don't like rap at all..that and country are the only two genres I avoid like the plague. But I gotta hand it to him, this strikes a nerve that needs to be struck. Anyone who does not view this is missing out on something important.

[RoyGBiv]

17. I don't get it ...

With all due respect, I simply do not understand the closed-mind approach to this. As those of us who were around the minutes and hours after the video first started circulating, the initial reaction to it by people who openly expressed their dislike of Eminem was almost unanimous in its praise. I lost count of the number of "Wow" "Ohmygod" "That's Powerful" type of comments from people in their 50's, 60's, and older who said they didn't get rap music at all, but they definitely got that.

Shutting your mind to this is the same kind of thing our opponents do when sticking their fingers in their ears and refusing to listen to reason. f you watch it and don't like it or just can't see what most of the rest of us see, okay. But to comment on it without even seeing it ... ????

Seems we had some extended threads about that in relation to F-9/11 some time ago.

Again, I mean no offense. I simply urge you to reconsider and at least watch it.

[NDFan]

21. Eminem

The guy isn't someone I respect. Whether he's anti-Bush or not, it doesn't matter.

I'm sure it'll help us get the Eminem vote, though.

I'm already for Kerry, I don't need validation from an Eminem video, however gloriously anti-Bush it is.

I'm not trying to be a party pooper... it's just after 5 years of this guy, I'm not that impressed. And I can't bring myself to... take the time to vote on TRL's website (which I haven't done in 3 years... ;)) or do an about face and suddenly sing his praises.

[RoyGBiv]

26. You're missing the point ...

Look, I "get it" about Eminem. Some people hate him. Fine.

I fail to see why this necessitates the various oblique insults of the video itself, often by those who haven't seen it, or the need to make clear to others who find the message and the images empowering that you won't be seeing it because you dislike the messenger. I know you're not trying to be a buzzkill, but you are. There was really no purpose to your comments other than that, intentional or not. That is the same kind of criticism that was directed at Michael Moore and F-9/11. He's a big, stupid, white guy. Yeah, okay, whatever. Now, what did you think of the movie?

And welcome to DU, btw. :hi:

One of the best things about this place is that we actually have honest disagreements and can move past it, unlike some other jack-booted places out there with names I won't mention.

[Cocoa]

31. right on about Michael Moore

when I read the post below about "poster boy" the first thing I thought of was Moore.

[NDFan]

38. Well

I don't understand why I'm a buzzkill. I haven't commented on this video, except to say I don't want to see it. Not praising it does not mean I'm condemning it. It's just that I don't have a short memory. His homophobia in video and writing has just always rubbed me the wrong way.

[msongs]

54. ummm youre not a buzzkill, just...

someone who disagrees with the guy who said

"I know you're not trying to be a buzzkill, but you are. There was really no purpose to your comments other than that, intentional or not."

Better to disagree using "I" statements, cuz actually none of us can KNOW what another person's purpose is.

it is a lose lose situation for both of you defending yerselfs. might as well move along hehe.

Msongs
Riverside CA

PS - draft eminem. he is soooooooooooooo tough he oughta be in the army LOLOLOLOLOL

[blue sky at night]

9. Finally someone stands up against the pigs........

and you would dare to question it, because you don't "like" him.....well too bad. It is about time the musicians started kicking some ass,it is the direct path to the heart of young listeners. We NEED this to happen, so stop worrying about the messenger. Most of the youth are way too apathetic and need to have a fire lit under their asses.

[Warren DeMontague]

14. Still, this video is something else. Seriously powerful.

n/t

[Raiden]

29. I couldn't agree more

I really cannot stand Eminem. I don't care what his politics are. Courtney Love is probably extremely liberal, but that doesn't influence my opinion of her one iota.

[Cocoa]

39. liberal?

what does this have to do with being liberal? Or with Courtney Love?

[Raiden]

58. Nothing really

I just don't care for her either...

[billyoc]

45. I don't know him

:)
But I don't listen to much rap anyway. The important thing is that this video is encouraging young people to *VOTE* and they definitely *do* listen to rap.

So hat's off to eminem(whoever the hell he is).

PS, I'll be wearing my black hoodie. ;)

[Raiden]

86. Oh, I do know him

I really can't get over the misogynism and homophobia of his lyrics. However, I do appreciate that he is encouraging a lot of people to get involved in the political process.



*I still don't care for him though*

[billyoc]

106. "Oh, I do know him"

"I really can't get over the misogynism and homophobia of his lyrics."

So typical rapper, then? Oh well, at least he'll get some kids out to the polls.

[Teaser]

50. He is the most talented rapper of this era.

Bar none.

[Name removed]

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[mzmolly]

3. I guess I didn't get that impression of his comments?

:shrug:

[noamnety]

7. I thought he was positive

I was happy with the video being shown, what he said about it not being subtle was true, and he said it in a humorous way.

[dsewell]

5. Neither were Country Joe and the Fish

"subtle" when they sang the "I-Feel-Like-I'm-Fixing-To-Die Rag". But it's probably the first thing you remember when you think of music and Vietnam War protest. And anyone who was the age of today's Eminem fans when it first played remembers how powerful an expression it was.

I don't think "Mosh" is quite in that league as a protest song, even with the accompanying video, but it speaks to its audience.

[Old and In the Way]

13. Quite true......

that song delivered the message quite succintly.

[notadmblnd]

6. I agree, this was my post to another DU'er last night.

I'm 45 and not really a fan of hip-hop. I listen to his lyrics and I hear a lot of anger. I think some people dislike him because he kinda rubs the truth in our faces. He's a shove it down your throat kinda guy. Too many people don't see the misery of children who grow up with young single moms. I know people who grew up like him, I know their anger. I appreciate that Eminem has chosen to express his anger through his music. I think it helps him to work through it.

He is special, he is a survivor. I think he recognizes some of the unwise choices he has made in his young life and is succeeding in becoming a better person. His latest release, Mosh shows me that he is growing and maturing.

[Cocoa]

11. I look at Eminem's face and see a lot of anger

I agree about the way he chose to deal with it. In this video, it's a pretty explicit message to channel the anger into something positive, like voting.

Anyway, it's infinitely more honest than Olbermann-style, corporate-friendly pseudo-cynicism.

Not to be too harsh toward Keith, whom I like, but he's carelessly trashing something good here.

[notadmblnd]

19. I think so too

nt

[secular_warrior]

27. That's funny, since

the corporations will be making much more money off of Eminem than they will be off of Keith Olbermann. Olbermann is the one who is correct.

[Cocoa]

36. what was Olbermann "correct" about?

unlike Eminem, he didn't really say anything.

Did you see either "Mosh" or "Countdown?"

[secular_warrior]

41. Both.

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[secular_warrior]

52. If being progressive means being a fan of hatemongers,

I guess I'm not a progressive.

Yeah, I'll take whatever votes they can get for Kerry this time around, doesn't mean I have to like or support anything they do, and certainly I'm not going to be a corporate sheep like the rest of the suburban elite/Eminem clones who are only progressive for the style/trend reasons.

[rockydem]

60. You're the one who says he needs to have his "teeth knocked out"

I think you live in a glass house.

You don't understand hip-hop. You don't understand that they often take on alter egos - Em's is "Slim Shady" - as Slim Shady he makes fun of everyone and everything, including himself. It's a character - his songs are full of characters. He makes this clear when you listen to his albums. His first album had some gay jokes (along with many others, such as ones about him having a small dick) and the self-righteous PC crowd jumped down his throat. For his second album he fought back - he didn't back down. And he won the battle (and that's what really pisses you off). He kicked the shit out of self-righteous PC ninnies.

And after he won the battle he toned it way down. He even sticks up for a gay man in his movie.

Anyway many of his songs are in his own voice - that of Marshall Mathers. Those songs are serious - like "Mosh" is - and they are brilliant.

[secular_warrior]

79. So I guess folks like Ann Coulter are similarly misunderstood ?

She's angry and espouses hatred/violence. There's no difference, except Eminem is a much bigger right wing/corporate tool than she is, and makes them far more money.

And please, don't lecture me about rap/hip hop, which I grew up with when it was really the socially concious music of the inner city.

[rockydem]

84. Ann Coulter isn't an artist - she doesn't take on roles or characters

she doesn't tell stories in her work - she is trying to be a serious scholar...

But I'm growing tired of your schtick...

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[secular_warrior]

81. Aping what ? Isn't this site for left leaning people and Dems ?

Show me one of my posts where I wasn't a left winger ?

Go look it up and get back to me.

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[secular_warrior]

98. Caught on to what ? Discuss with the class.

You're making a personal attack/insinution simply because I disagree with you and your idol, and that is against the rules.

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[rockydem]

78. your "critique" Eminem already addressed in his songs

From "White America"

See the problem is I speak to suburban kids
Who otherwise
Woulda never knew these words exist
These moms probably woulda never gave 2 squirts of piss
Till I created so much mutha fuckin turbulence
Straight out the tube right into ya livin rooms I came
And kids Flipped
When they knew I was produced by Dre
That’s all it took
And they were instantly hooked right in
And they connected wit me too cuz I looked like them
That’s why they put my lyrics up under this microscope
Searchin wit a fine toothed comb
It’s like this rope waitin to choke
Tightenin around my throat
Watchin me while I write this like "I don’t like this, NO!"
All I hear is
Lyrics lyrics constant controversy
Sponsors workin round the clock
To try to stop my concerts early
Surely hip hop is never a problem
In Harlem only In Boston
After it bothered ya fathers
of daughters startin to blossom

[roseBudd]

23. If you've seen Eight Mile you know Eminem was poor and almost

black since he grew up in a white minority neighborhood in Detroit. He gets it.

[Name removed]

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[rockydem]

49. Eminem is not a bully - he was the one bullied all his life

Listen to his song "Brain Damage" - it's about his being beat so bad he had to go the hospital. His mom pulled him out of school and she even made a stab at suing the school district for allowing an ongoing rampage of bullying against her son.

You don't know Mr. Mathers - you don't know anything about him.

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[novadem]

10. I don't think we want

Eminem as our poster boy. Remember those songs with lyrics about beating women and such? Hands off of this clown.

[Cocoa]

15. what a weird response;

who said anything about Eminem or anyone else being a poster boy?

[Teaser]

56. Learn to deal

people grow, people change.

eminem's skillz as an MC are unsurpassed. And the boy can write, even if in the past he has written things many of us don't like.

His song Stan? Arguably the best hip hop song ever.

[secular_warrior]

76. Please. "skilz" "the best song ever" ?

White folk simply amaze me with their hubris. So none of the black artists who created rap/hip hop and challenged the system (like Public Enemy and many others) even measure up to your corporat idol "Em" ? Wow.

[marigold20]

12. I agree, Olbermann was dismissive and didn't give it much time.

.

[Fluffdaddy]

18. I'm not a Rap or Em Fan But This Video Was Moving...It hit the spot

[AP]

20. "Meet the old boss. Same as the new boss." Would he prefer something so...

subtle that even fascists can twist it into something that seems to support them?

Won't Get Fooled Again
by The Who

We'll be fighting in the streets
With our children at our feet
And the morals that they worship will be gone
And the men who spurred us on
Sit in judgement of all wrong
They decide and the shotgun sings the song

I'll tip my hat to the new constitution
Take a bow for the new revolution
Smile and grin at the change all around
Pick up my guitar and play
Just like yesterday
Then I'll get on my knees and pray
We don't get fooled again

(small instrumental)

The change, it had to come
We knew it all along
We were liberated from the fold, that's all
And the world looks just the same
And history ain't changed
'Cause the banners, they are flown in the next war

I'll tip my hat to the new constitution
Take a bow for the new revolution
Smile and grin at the change all around
Pick up my guitar and play
Just like yesterday
Then I'll get on my knees and pray
We don't get fooled again
No, no!

(instrumental)

I'll move myself and my family aside
If we happen to be left half alive
I'll get all my papers and smile at the sky
Though I know that the hypnotized never lie
Do ya?

(instrumental)

There's nothing in the streets
Looks any different to me
And the slogans are replaced, by-the-bye
And the parting on the left
Is now parting on the right
And the beards have all grown longer overnight

I'll tip my hat to the new constitution
Take a bow for the new revolution
Smile and grin at the change all around
Pick up my guitar and play
Just like yesterday
Then I'll get on my knees and pray
We don't get fooled again
Don't get fooled again
No, no!

(instrumental)

Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!

Meet the new boss
Same as the old boss

[secular_warrior]

25. Eminem is a product, just like MTV

The corporations would never be producing anything harmful to their own agenda. Eminem's video may as well be followed by, "I'm corporate America, and I approved this message." If anything, the corporations are doing this for Bush, to offend and turn off Kerry leaning voters.

I guess we were all young and gullible at one time, when idols seemed infallible, where the truth was too painful to come to terms with.

It's hard to admit there's no "Santa Claus".

[Name removed]

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[IronLionZion]

70. DUers haven't been watching it on MTV

Most of us saw it on the Internet for free.

There's a campaign to get MTV to air his video on TRL before the election. Personally, I think MTV's current audience is between the ages of 12 and 17 so it wouldn't do a whole lot of good.

Anyone who thinks voting-age people actually watch MTV...is just way too old to understand. :P Because MTV blows.

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[Cocoa]

30. did you see the video?

to me, "Countdown" is more of a product than Eminem. His style of cynicism is more corporate-friendly than protest songs.

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[Robbie67]

55. Just exactly what was wrong with the video?

By the way, did you know that Eminem did not make the video?

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[secular_warrior]

87. Proof ?

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[secular_warrior]

99. It's against the rules to make personal attacks/insinuations, but

I guess that's the only way you can win an argument.

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[secular_warrior]

104. You simply can't counter my argument

Eminen is a hatemongering corporate tool and nothing more, designed to be sold to the pampered suburban elite who think too much of themselves.

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[secular_warrior]

93. Never said he didn't have the right to make it,

but I strongly disagree with anyone who would support Eminem or anything stands for.

[DefenseLawyer]

103. Music doesn't scare me

I like Chuck D but I'm not joining the Nation of Islam, I like George Jones but I'm not drinking a bottle of Jack tonight. Hell I love John Wayne movies and I'm not a right wing reactionary blacklisting crank. I doubt seriously you have listened to enough eminem to know what he stands for, I know I haven't, the fact is he stands for a point of view through music. Take it or leave it. The bottom line here is that his video is a strong indictment of the administration and an encouragement for kids to vote.

[RandomKoolzip]

77. The corporations would never produce anything that goes against their..."

Actually, they do it all the time. Remember CBS's ad campaign in the turbulent year of 1970, "The Man Can't Bust Our Music?" Remember punk? Remember Nirvana? Remember Public Enemy?

Pushing faux-rebellion is a time-worn tactic of multinationals. It's why all TV commercials are soaked with a postmodern ennui now, a kind of seen-it-all smugness that suckers you into buying the products because it seems so.....anti-corporate....to let the viewers in on the joke.

When there's money to be made off of controllable rebellion, like Eminem's, they'll push it to the skies.


On a side note, I think Eminem sucks. Funny how everyone talks about his words, but no one ever calls his musicality into question......

[secular_warrior]

91. Agreed. That's exactly what I meant.

The corporations would never produce anything that goes against their interests.. because none of the "faux-rebellion" does. It makes them money and keeps the people in check.

American culture is the most powerful tool the corporations have, more powerful than anything the political process could offer them.

Just look at how nuts some of these folks here are in defending a muli-millionare corporate hatemonger like "Em".

[Nana]

32. OMG, I did not get that impression and was glad he was ..

telling folks about it..what did I miss?

[BootinUp]

33. Olberman's style

is all about being subtle. Exception is when he is trashing O'Rielly his time slot competition of course.

I watched the Mosh video earlier today and didn't care a whole lot for it. Course I am not a rap fan. Then tonight after having a drink I watched it again with my wife and thought it was pretty cool.

Bottom line, I think Olberman is entitled to his opinion. And he did air the story after all.

[eleny]

34. Subtle, hmmm? Like Keith has been subtle about O'Reilly

Being subtle is hardly Keith's approach to anything!

[thoughtanarchist]

35. Can't fault eminem for his anger any more than you'd fault plaidder

Go back and read plaidder's column "the immoderator" from 10/13. Note the end of the column where she looses control. There is real justified anger there. Many of us feel it. Eminem's video gives a focus and a target for this anger. :grr: He offers an outlet on Nov 2.

This is exactly what young folks need. An expression of solidarity.

from plaidder:

<clip>
BUSH is relieved to see that both of PLAIDDER's hands are in view and clutching the edges of the podium. KERRY appears to have noticed, with some concern, that they are shaking.

PLAIDDER: I have been treating you since you showed up here without mercy, without compassion, and without any respect for basic human dignity. I know perfectly well that even you don't deserve to be treated that way, but after four years of living under your rule I can't even remember why that's true. You've been pumping your hatred and lies and selfishness and filth into my country's veins since the century began and now I am as polluted as you are. (PLAIDDER rips the override button off the podium and brandishes it at BUSH, shouting.) I am the Swift Boat smearers, I am Fox News, I am the shifting pretext. I am pre-emptive war. I am Guantanamo. I am Abu Ghraib. I am your America, George. How do you like me?

PLAIDDER hurls the uprooted override button away from her. It falls onto the carpet. In the astonished silence that follows, BUSH's mouth falls slightly open and hangs there. KERRY watches PLAIDDER get a grip on herself, wearing an expression that is very difficult to read. When PLAIDDER turns toward KERRY the overhead lights catch her eyes and it is obvious that she has been crying.
<snip>

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[yardwork]

64. Most of the folks on DU are not Eminem's intended audience

and neither is Olbermann.

It doesn't matter what we think. The people who like Eminem and will be influenced by this video don't care what we think, either.

I don't care who comes out against *. They have a right to express their opinion and the opinion expressed in "Mosh" is right-on.

Eminem put his finger on the truth about * and it will influence a lot of people to vote for Kerry.

[goclark]

73. I am 60 and I liked it

I though the animation was some of the best I have seen.

I think he dared to say the things about this country that really need improving. And, he did it with conviction!

I was watching CSPAN this morning with my mom. She is in her 80's.
I was so excited to see the two African American Radio Hosts I could hardly contain myself.

My mother had a different reaction. She thought they were not polite to each other,they were talking too loud(I have to let her listen to screaming Rush again) and she didn't think that the young kids would want to listen to them.

I asked her if she thought that they would listen to her telling them how to vote in a nice sweet voice. She agreed they would not want to hear her. I tried to explain to her that their ears have been taught to hear loud music and the "all talking at once "style.

She just didn't get it. She wanted them to be polite and correct.

Well, M&M does not talk like me or walk like me but he sure feels just like I do about George Bush. We have something in common.

M&M
Rocks

[Raenelle]

85. The video is stirring. And I get really discouraged by the left's

tendency to eat its own young. We're faced with an armed, organized, well-funded, in-power right-wing, and we're trying to figure out who's pure enough to hang out on our side of the street. Fooey.

[fortyfeetunder]

92. This is no different than the late 60's and early 70's

For those of you old enough to remember, there were a bunch of political pop songs, particularly after the assassinations of MLK and RFK. My favorite R&B ones were Marvin Gaye's What's Goin' On? and The Temptations, "Ball of Confusion"...and (I can't recall the artist), "Where have all the Flowers Gone".

So Eminem isn't doing anything unique!

[npincus]

107. he's definitely a friend, and he's entitled to his opinion

[Shopaholic]

108. Keith is entitled to his opinion

and if he doesn't like Eminem, that's fine with me, because I don't like Eminem either. Don't get me wrong, I'm happy he's made this anti-* video. I'm delighted that it seems to be such a hit with the younger generation. I'm just not a rap fan in general and I can't tell you the last time I watched MTV or even VH1. I suspect that Keith, given his age, probably isn't a rap fan either. And that's fine. He doesn't have to be, nor do I. But both Eminem and Keith, in their own ways, have helped our sides by their willigness to speak out, speak the truth, and tell it like it is, and for that, I support and thank them both!

[Anarcho-Socialist]

109. Olbermann is entitled to his opinion

I liked 'Mosh', but it's the only work of Eminem I have liked. I watched but didn't like 8-mile and I didn't like the rest of his work, as I found it incredibly self-obsessed. I know people who love his music, but each to his/her own.