Do you believe that Bush and gang could become as dangerous as Hitler

[trumad]

if he's reelected.

I just love folks who claim that the meir(sp) mention of Hitler when talking about George W. Bush is the beginning of the end of my credibility.

Is it legitimate to think that this guy and his Neo-Con clan can become just as dangerous to this country as Hitler was to Germany? Is it fair to compare the Nazi regime to the likes of Tom Delay, Bill Frist, Denny Hastert etc. Is it fair to compare our current media to the early stages of Nazism?

I think so......

[madmax]

1. Yes. n/t

[prodigal_green]

2. more so

more sophisticated technology.

The brownshirts are already mobilized and they are using tactics to convince people not to believe their own eyes and ears.

Viva la resistance!

[Technowitch]

3. Actually, that's precisely what I believe

And why, if he steals this election again, my same-sex spouse and I will be pricing land in British Columbia.

Just in case. See, as a non-Christian same-sex couple and vocal political dissenters, we ARE second in line to be rounded up for the interment camps, right after the Muslims.

Don't think it can't happen here, because it's already been happening. Just ask the poor sods at Gitmo.

[seraph]

4. Yes, more. (nt)

[Hobarticus]

If you know your history, yes.

Sorry for the long snip, but pretty eye-opening stuff. Sound familiar?

From http://www.rense.com/general37/char.htm:

Dr. Lawrence Britt has examined the fascist regimes of Hitler (Germany), Mussolini (Italy), Franco (Spain), Suharto (Indonesia) and several Latin American regimes. Britt found 14 defining characteristics common to each:
Ê
1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism - Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.
Ê
2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights - Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.
Ê
3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause - The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.
Ê
4. Supremacy of the Military - Even when there are widespread
domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.
Ê
5. Rampant Sexism - The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Divorce, abortion and homosexuality are suppressed and the state is represented as the ultimate guardian of the family institution.
Ê
6. Controlled Mass Media - Sometimes to media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.
Ê
7. Obsession with National Security - Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.
Ê
8. Religion and Government are Intertwined - Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or actions.
Ê
9. Corporate Power is Protected - The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.
Ê
10. Labor Power is Suppressed - Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed.
Ê
11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts - Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts and letters is openly attacked.
Ê
12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment - Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.
Ê
13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption - Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.
Ê
14. Fraudulent Elections - Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.

[wtmusic]

5. Absolutely

They are thugs and intoxicated with power.

[cyr330]

6. Reelected?

I don't think I would chose that particular word, since he was NOT elected in 2000; he was APPOINTED by the SCOTUS.

In response to your question: YES.

[KingChicken]

7. Half-way there

Most German people diden't even know what was going on until late in the war, some still refuse to believe it. That's propaganda for ya, it happens overnight and no one is the wiser, good thing for the Internet.

[durablend]

8. Worse!

[sinkingfeeling]

9. Yes. n/t

[doni_georgia]

10. Absolutely Trumad - Funny Bush comparing himself to Roosevelt and

Kennedy. The more apt comparison would have been to Hitler or Stalin.

[GreenArrow]

11. yes, worse

.

[humanbeing]

12. Unfortunately, yes...

But reviewing all we've seen (Administration ties to big military corporations, unprecedented secrecy, the PNAC) I think we really have to be watchful. It's depressing to see the ignorance supporting the Chimp now, but remember, most of us can still see through the lies right now. Maybe if push came to shove, we can do what the German population could not do...

We're on the front lines for the next few years, whatever happens on NOv 2nd.

[AntiFascist]

36. Regarding PNAC....

It should be topic number 1 in the media as far as the Bush campaign is concerned, and yet NO ONE ever discusses it! They will beat around the "Bush" and talk about Neocons, but never their fascist manifesto. Not even on AAR, at least as far as I can tell. Yesterday a call-in interviewee to Majority Report brought it up and gave a good description of it....finally someone with guts!

[The Traveler]

13. Again, I say

if it walks like a fascist and talks like a fascist it just might be a fuckin' fascist.

OK, you and I are the bad people who shock others by calling a duck a duck. If Bush and friends are not fascists, then someone needs to explain to me how they are in operation or in principle different, and do so without the doublespeak that has become the trademark of this administration.

[DaveSZ]

15. Yes, but instead of Jews he will persecute gays

[The Traveler]

21. The scapegoat of convenience

they gotta have one, ya know. It is part of the formula.

[Tansy_Gold]

23. Hitler persecuted and executed gays

and the "feeble-minded" and the old and the disabled and the non-Aryan ethnic groups such as Poles and Roma and Sinti -- among others.

Boosh could go after any groups that stand in his way of claiming power -- not just gays but feminists, liberals, catholics, jews, muslims, buddhists, hindus, people of color, people with brown (non-Aryan?) eyes, wiccans, atheists, communists.

I watched part of a PBS documentary last night that tried to explain the witch hunts of the 16th 17th centuries on poisoning via ergot-contaminated rye. While the evidence seemed convincing, little was mentioned that the overwhelming majority of those accused and condemned of witchcraft were women. Ergot poisoning doesn't explain that.

I've been comparing boosh to Hitler for over four years. I haven't changed my mind.

[Speck Tater]

14. Among those who believe in reincarnation...

Specifically, from the 3,000+ cases studied by Dr. Ian Stevenson of the University of Virginia Medical School, the average time between death and rebirth into a new life has been computed to be 14 months.

Bush was born 14 months after Hitler died.

IMHO Bush IS Hitler reincarnated. That's why so many who died at his hands and have been since reincarnated have such a visceral hatred of the man. Unconsciously, they recognize him for who he really is.

[Mountainman]

16. Yes, they will get into a war with the rest of the world against us.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

17. "become"???

[peppersnick]

18. YES!!!!!

[ibegurpard]

19. I believe so

The people who object to the comparison are not recognizing that the Nazis didn't start slaughtering Jews the minute they came into power. The gradually consolidated their power and shut down all the legal and democratic means of resistance.

[jeningermany]

20. From someone who lives in Germany and been to the concentration camps

I think DU is getting a little hysterical in the waning days of this election.

A bunch of fascists? Hell yes, they already are but let's get real here folks. Even this bunch aren't going to round up the gays/terrorists/gypsies, etc. and make soap out of them.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

24. My next door neighbors lived in germany during Hitler's reign and

this 80 year old gentleman will talk to you all night long about the very valid comparisons between Hitler and Bush. You may not see concentration camps but remember...Hitler didn't open those right away...the aggressiveness..the manipulation of the media..the fact that there were VERY FEW Nazi's to start but that they took over the infrastructure of the country so that if one weren't loyal the the Fuhrer they were OUT OF WORK or out of a home....my 80 year old neightbor tells me it started out just like this...

[Tansy_Gold]

26. Consider that Porter Goss has already begun filling

FBI (or is it CIA?) posts with "republicans." Even though he said in his confirmation hearings -- a la John Ashcroft -- that he would not be partisan. :puke:

[Zorra]

33. Robert Mueller, FBI Director, used to work for Ashcroft and has quietly

turned the FBI into an agency that is only loyal to the republican party.

Porter Goss is CIA Director, and he is at this very moment making the CIA an arm of the republican party.

The fusion of police/intelligence agencies, dedicated to establishing a one party (republican) fascist totalitarian police state.

[Tansy_Gold]

47. Thanks, Zorra.

I couldn't remember in the frenzy of writing that post if Goss had been appointed to CIA or FBI.

Also, IIRC, Ashcroft himself was against moving FBI out of Justice Dept and into Homeland Security for fear of losing control of the political power of the FBI.

But I just want all of them to lose political power next Tuesday. I would like to be able to sleep again.

[trumad]

32. I'm not hysterical

What makes you think that... I'm simply stating my opinion that what I've been witnessing the last several years in the Republican party are symptoms similar to the earlier days of the Nazis. What, you don't see it?

[jeningermany]

40. yes I see it

and you will never find a bigger despiser of GWB and his fascist band of brothers than me but to compare this bunch of inept clowns with the Nazi's and the devastation they caused all over the world seems rather silly to me. I've been in the ovens. This isn't going to happen again.

[trumad]

43. You were in the oven? I digress

It's early in the game. If things continue with this regime in power then I think you might change your mind.

[jeningermany]

44. come on!

We are all over their asses for putting out fake advertisements are we going to stand by while they gas people and exterminate millions of people all over the planet? Let's stop with the silliness!

[trumad]

49. I don't know....

History sure has shown us that it is very possible that a country could do just that. I wonder if you would have posted the same thing in 1940?

[Tansy_Gold]

50. They are already exterminating people all over the planet

Take a guess how many will die here from the flu? The estimates are that 36,000 die even in years when there is "adequate" vaccine, so how many will die this year? And how many of them will be the poor, the already sick, the disadvantaged?

How did the invading Europeans get rid of the Native Peoples of the Americas? Not with ovens and gas chambers but with blankets -- blankets infected with smallpox. I seem to recall that in 2001 there was a scare in this country regarding another contagious disease, something called anthrax, IIRC, and a shortage of the antibiotic that could combat it. . .. .

Zyklon-B was only one tactic out of many available to the booshies. How many poor people will die this winter because they can't afford home heating oil? How many will have to choose between heat and medication? between heat and food? How many will avoid going to the doctor until it is too late, because they can't afford it? how many will use emergency facilities, overloading them to the point that they are no longer effective in true emergency situations?

The comparison of boosh with Hitler is one of intent, not yet of accomplishments.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

48. You are right..now they don't do it with ovens..ovens are so PRE 9/11

Now they do it by calling anyone without their agenda a terrorist..they can do it with bunker busters...bomb homes where weddings are occurring and call it a terrorist cell... they can use economic means to starve out whole populations and can capitalize on the fact that most news organizations don't really have very effective or independent foreign bureaus.

If you are waiting for ovens and showers that are really gas chambers..that is so passe...you simply ship people off to islands like GITMO with no representation...or lock them in storage containers as occurred in Afghanistan and count on a docile press not to report it.

Yes..I know Hitler did it his way...perhaps you missed GWB's comment about HOMES for pregnant unmarried women in the debates.

One can make VALID comparisons to Bush and Hitler without having every last detail parellel.

[jeningermany]

55. You are preaching to the choir here

as far as the true evil of Bush. I know that with all my heart. I don't think he should be compared to Hitler as it diminishes the reality of what happened here. The United States isn't murdering millions of people and you come off sounding like a schill for suggesting that we are on the path to Nazism.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

57. Again...as a Jew...I am not out to DIMINISH the END result of Hitler

but why should I allow Bush to GET to an end result? Should I wait until 6 million Arabs are dead to sound the alarm? I respectfully disagree with your assessment...imagine if people had gotten the true dangers of Hitler EARLY on when the Nazi's really WERE the minority party in Germany...imagine.

[Name removed]

60. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

61. I've been completely rational in my reasoning..I won't argue with

ad hominems and that is what you are doing by inferring that those who disagree with you are hysterical. For the record, I don't hate Bush...I don't hate anyone..I simply recall the saying that all that is required for evil to flourish is for good people to do nothing.

Between Afghanistan and Iraq...I am certain no less than a quarter of a million people of dark skin pigmentation are dead....I guess we only have 5 and a half million to go before you will see any corrollary.

[Kingshakabobo]

35. Give em time............From someone who has been the victim

(attempted- I studied Judo and wrestled in high school/college)of gay bashing and been on the receiving end of organized protests against gays....

Bush has been pandering to the fundies for 3 and a half years. The right wing/religious wing of this country has been gaining on us for 20 years. Those fundies have the same ultimate motive of the Taliban- don't forget it.

Who would have thought we would be starting a PREEMPTIVE war against another country three and a half years ago. I didn't.

This democracy is more fragile than most people realize. Was it Franks who made the comment about "god help our democracy if we have another terrorist attack worse than 9/11"?

[humanbeing]

52. Heck, I've lived in Germany too

Doesn't mean you or I have any greater grasp of history and politics than anyone else.

Hitler didn't start up with the tactics, either. He wrested permanent control of the government first, consolidated power, set his party members up in key components of the political and corporate institutions, THEN he moved onto abridging civil rights, defining an inhuman enemy...

[nytemare]

22. I don't think we should compare...

Hitler and Bush. Hitler was an eloquent speaker and a war hero. <tongue in cheek>.

An interesting quote from Hermann Goering that very closely parallels our current situation:

"Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger."
-- Herman Goering at the Nuremberg trials

Frightening, isn't it?

I can't remember if someone on here or Randi Rhodes site had this as their quote, but it is quite compelling.

[Zorra]

25. Very easily. Anyone with an IQ over 10 can see that they are in the

process of orchestrating the overthrow of our democratic government and illegally creating a one party fascist totalitarian state. People that diss you for making comparisons between Hitler and Bu$h and republicans and nazis either don't know history or have been convinced by RW talking heads that making the comparison is not appropriate.

“A clique of U.S. industrialists is hell-bent to bring a fascist state to supplant our democratic government and is working closely with the fascist regime in Germany and Italy. I have had plenty of opportunity in my post in Berlin to witness how close some of our American ruling families are to the Nazi regime. “

"Certain American industrialists had a great deal to do with bringing fascist regimes into being in both Germany and Italy. They extended aid to help Fascism occupy the seat of power, and they are helping to keep it there."
- William E. Dodd, U.S. Ambassador to Germany, 1937

The Rise of American Fascism

http://www.rationalrevolution.net/articles/rise_of_american_fascism.htm

[nytemare]

34. I was being facetious =]

I do believe that our situation mimics that of Germany in the mid-late 30's. Want to make sure you didn't take me the wrong way, the quote tells the whole story.

[trumad]

37. Excellent post

another words those who forget the past are sure to repeat it.

[Hornito]

27. Certainly. Any group that can coldly kill 100,000+ women and....

children in Iraq, is capable of anything. These people are every bit as evil as Hitler's bunch were, and with modern weapons, a lot more dangerous.

[DemBones DemBones]

28. Contrary to the internet wisdom of Godwin's Law, I think

we ignore Hitler and Fascism at our own peril.

People sometimes go overboard, labeling anyone they dislike a Nazi, and that's an unfortunate tendency we ought to discourage. But when the evidence of what office holders are doing suggests they may have a fascist worldview, we shouldn't be shy in saying so. It's important to remember that political leaders don't have to go to all the extremes that Hitler did to be exhibiting fascist tendencies.

[thebadsed]

29. bush website blocking overseas access

see BBC article

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/3961557.stm

[Robeson]

30. Hitler never had nuclear weapons. This guy does....

....and would probably use them, if his "faith" based reality led him to do it on a given day.

[bacchant]

31. Imagine if a young Hitler, suffering massive brain damage after nearly

choking to death on a bratwurst, still rose to power despite his infantile mind. if you can get with that scenario then yes, you could make a direct comparison between Hitler and Bush.

[nytemare]

39. LOL

Well said!

[masonfl]

38. I don't think you should make this comparison

Bush is an idiot. He should not be president. He is reckless. He has made very bad decisions. But I don't think he is evil incarnate. Comparing anyone to Hitler requires a pretty high (or low?) bar that even W hasn't met. I also think that making comparisons like this risk alienating good D voters who have first hand experience with how truly bad Hitler was.

Just my two cents.

[donco6]

41. Absolutely.

To have so little regard for the 100,000 Iraqis killed so far is a telling sign.

[kaitykaity]

42. Yes. "Absolute power corrupts absolutely."

If their behavior and agenda are validated on Tuesday,
then we are in for pure hell of the likes not seen since
Hitler's Germany in an industrialized country.

[LisaL]

45. I said it before, and I will say it again.

At least Hitler didn't have nukes.

[BiggJawn]

46. Yes.

He's got Brownshirts, he's got his own sycophants, his Himmler, his Goring, his Goebbels...

He HAD his Reichstag fire, his version of "lebensraum" is this holy crusade to export "Freedom" to the whole fucking world (as long as they got muslims to kill and Oil to steal)

And to those who hiss "but he hasn't killed 6 million!"

I say.....

YET!

[IconoclastIlene]

53. Yes...

[billyoc]

56. How many people did Hitler kill

in his first three years in power? just asking

On edit: I just found it, it's zero.

http://www.remember.org/guide/Facts.root.hitler.html

[jor_mama]

66. Those who have to resort to the "he hasn't killed 6,000,000"

line tells me that they are concerned about all of the other similarities.

And what happens when 6,000,000 HAVE died?

Well, he doesn't have a funny moustache.

[ChloeForKerry]

51. Not quite

But given enough time. Well, anything is possible.

[kostya]

54. Simply put, they are almost there now. What do you think would

be the equivalent of Krystalnacht though?

[billyoc]

59. I don't think you need all the little details

You don't need actual ovens to put people in, or a Krystalnacht any more than you need a funny little moustache. Just because you're only killing people with endless wars for empire instead of the ghastly methods that the Nazis used, are you really any better?

This might be the most frightening aspect of these kind of comparisons, the ability of the modern fascist to say "Look, no ovens!", and ridicule any comparisons to the old time fascists of days gone by.

Not to be all doom and gloom, however. :) Someone(jeningermany?) pointed out that the public(us) is all over the administration for small gaffes, I don't really believe that they'd get away with implementing all of their plans. Blog like DU are a big part of the reason that I think this.

[Dem Agog]

58. Absolutely...

I have long believed that Bush is today's Hitler, just a little less successful in the number of people he's murdered. But given that Bush is dumber than a box of Hitler's hair, you can't expect him to have the success is numbers that his mass murdering historic idol did.

My in-laws are left-leaning but even they were shocked. My mother-in-law after listening to one of my tirades against the criminal in the WH asked me if I thought Bush was as bad as Hitler. The intensity of my retort, and the quickness with which I answered her question, threw her off guard.

Bush is just Stupid Hitler Jr.

[pookieblue]

62. Yes

I was talking to a lady who said that her mother had to flee Germany. She said that her mother said to her that what is going on now, reminds her of how Hitler got started.

And I have to agree, Bush and the rest of the NeoCons are wanting to take over our Country. The US can not take another 4 years of Bush.

[proud2BlibKansan]

63. They already are

[pen dragon]

64. you could say so

[Maylee]

65. Yes...

And not just in terms of his propensity to start wars. I fear he may also trigger economic dark ages.

[falcon]

67. reelected?

*